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kage_ar
Guest
Except that it limits these to intensive puropses, makes ME wonder what the opinion is for mild or fleeting purposes?
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Phemie
Guest
Maybe it is more of a cradle Catholic thing, to limit godparents to family members
I think for many it’s the outdated idea that the godparents will become guardians if anything happens to the parents. A good number of parents firmly believe this and it may have been true in the 1800s and early 1900s, but today we go to great lengths to explain that no, if they want the godparents to become guardians they had better get themselves a lawyer and a good will.
In our day, the world is small. Internet and free long distance have removed the barriers of distance. I would choose a godparent on the other side of the planet who is faithful and orthodox - who will pray for my child every day and give a holy example and solid advice over someone who is “fluffy” in their Catholicism and can come to the birthday parties.
So would I. Too bad I didn’t know then what I know now.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
I also see it as a problem. Catholics need to learn and use the proper terminology and vocabulary specific to the Catholic Church. I know those who grew up in the last 40 years never learned it. If they don’t know it then they need to buy a good Catholic dictionary.
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Crazy_Diamond
Guest
Maybe that’s where the birthday parties come in…
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Crazy_Diamond
Guest
Once my daughters are old enough to have a relationship with a godparent over the internet and not do this
:takethat:
to our poor computer, I can see your point. For now, I like the fact that they see their godparents at least once a week at mass.
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Crazy_Diamond
Guest
I found here some interesting information about godparents in medieval times. Not only were (widowed) parents forbidden from marrying the godparents of their own child, but that extended to other relationships as well. Maybe FrDavid96 can cite the canon law for us, but I’ve read that marrying the godparent of one’s child is still forbidden. I didn’t find it on the marriage impediment section of canon law on the Vatican website.
Here’s a site that claims the record number of godparents was 22 godfathers and 3 godmothers, in 1445.
Just trivia, really.
Here’s a site that claims the record number of godparents was 22 godfathers and 3 godmothers, in 1445.
Just trivia, really.
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kage_ar
Guest
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Was forbidden would be correct.
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Crazy_Diamond
Guest
Was that a Vatican I or II change?
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
I believe it was in 1983 well after Vatican II.
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Phemie
Guest
It’s a change in Canon Law. The Code of 1917 had that as an impediment (you also couldn’t marry your own godparent) but the 1983 Code doesn’t. Another change in the code between 1917 and 1983 is that now Priests and Religious can be godparents where they weren’t allowed before.
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FrDavid96
Guest
Ah yes. Indeed it does. And the word “Godparent” is another example of this.
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FrDavid96
Guest
The principle is “affinity” people may be related in two ways, either consanguinity (that is literally “blood relatives”) or affinity–arising from some other relationship.
A Godparent is considered “related” to the baptised person by virtue of affinity. Likewise, in-laws are related by affinity; also aunts and uncles who are spouses of one’s blood aunts and uncles. Indeed there were laws forbidding marriage between persons who were related by affinity (depending on how close that relationship was). With regard to marriage, all of that has been done away with in the 1983 code (as Br Rich said). Before that, if a couple intended to marry and one party was not yet Catholic, the Catholic party could not be a sponsor, because that would make them related by affinity, and make marriage impossible (w/out a dispensation). This is all just historical trivia, though. Marriage impediments arising from affinity have varied greatly through time and place–even the definitions of just what constitutes affinity are diverse. It might be an interresting topic, but under today’s code, it’s all but irrelevant.
Just to clarify something you mentioned in another post, Orthodox persons may indeed be Godparents (in the proper sense of the word) to Catholics because of the unity (albeit imperfect) of faith between the sister Churches. I alluded to that, but didn’t want to bring it up because I knew it would be a distraction, but since you shared with us your own personal experience of this, I didn’t want you to think I was denying the legitimacy of that choice.
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thomfra
Guest
he he…did I not say “excuse my spelling”…Umm, that’s “soulless” …
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thomfra
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thomfra
Guest
As above. Why do you care? Have you not more important things to worry about?
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FrDavid96
Guest
I do care whether or not the word Godparent is applied to people who actually ARE Godparents and the word is not used in a casual way which dilutes the very meaning of the word.
Yes, I do care that the Sacraments of the Church are celebrated licitly. Yes, I do care that new Catholics being baptized actually have Godparents.
Why should one not care? Shoule Catholic not care about licit celebrations of the Sacraments?
Again, this illustrates the problem in Catholic praxis that I’ve been trying to explain here on this thread. Catholics who insist on illicit acts within the Sacraments often fall back on the “why should anyone care, don’t you have better things to do?” attitude as a last resort.
Which is quite frankly a very childish attitude.
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thomfra
Guest
**Well actually, it’s a quite a valid and fundamental question. **
The kids are being baptised (i.e. one godparent is catholic), the parents are happy. Everybody is trying to bring the child up in the faith, or at least make a start.
What’s **your ** contribution to the process?: Oh, it’s making sure nobody goes around labouring under the misapprehension that they are godparents. It seems rather meaningless, doesn’t it?
So I ask again: Why do you care so much about this? Why does it bother you so much? I would have thought there are bigger injustices in the world than this to spend time campaigning against. The priests and nuns I have known (and am related to) certainly don’t feel the urge to expend so much energy on it. But you do. This intriges me….
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kage_ar
Guest
Remember, we are all guests at this forum, and the hosts request we treat each other in a civil manner.
Your manner in responding with rude words to a Priest speaks volumes, I doubt you will apologize to any of the posters if you will not give a Priest respect.
Prayers for you.
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Crazy_Diamond
Guest
“Godparent” also an example of how the same word comes to have different meanings in legal writing vs. common parlance. Which brings up another question… obviously not every Catholic is expected to be a canon lawyer. There has to be some allowable difference between what a layman understands a term to mean and the understanding of an expert. How do you make sure during catechesis that the lay understanding doesn’t fall “too far” outside of the canonical definition?
It’s just that I know plenty of people who are quite devout and want to be faithful, but genuinely don’t have a gift for the kind of intellectual thought that goes into writing legal documents. The days of the “Catholic ghetto,” where people could simply absorb the concepts because they never ran into anything else, are over. What kind of tools can you give those people to help their understanding remain within the bounds of Catholic canon law?
My wife’s priest tries, by giving explanations of some of these things during his homilies. He’s quite intent on getting as much of that information across as he can, but he’s only got about fifty twenty-minute homilies a year to do it in. The catechesis programs focus on such basic information that they really don’t have the resources to go into detail. It would be nice to have a solid adult catechism, but my wife’s parish is a tiny mission parish. They’ve got their hands full. What sort of things have you run across that could help them generate solid canonical understandings among the parishioners?
[Edited]
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