Catholic High School Seminary

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MPSchneiderLC said:
Sorry, for any misunderstanding. As for “the Church” in this case it would mean the Holy See.

I completely agree that it is up to the ordinary, and see legitimate reasons one may not support a minor seminary. My concern was more to avoid blanket statements either way; the Holy Spirit can work in many different ways.
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Can you point me to where the Holy See has stated that it wants high school seminaries?

I know that there is support and a call for more minor seminaries but today the term “minor seminary” is applied to college seminaries.
 
MPSchneiderLC said:
You would need to get a degree with ecclesial validity to be ordained. It may not be secularly valid (which I assume is what you mean).
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I do not believe this to be so as long as a religious superior calls one to be ordained.

The FSSP does not appear to be a pontifical institute which, I believe, is required for the pontifical degrees.

The reason I brought up degrees (other than ecclesial degrees) is that not every man who attends a seminary is ordained. When one attends an accredited minor seminary and then a major seminary they have a bachelors degree and if they did not finish the masters they at least have a number of credits of masters level course work done which can be transferred to another degree program. When one attends an unaccredited institution no course work can be transferred. Even with accredited institutions not all credits can be transferred.

I know no one attends the seminary thinking that they will not finish and be ordained but it does happen. After all discernment does not end with entry into the seminary, heck it doesn’t even end with ordination (or solemn vows). Really it never ends.
 
OP,

Please think long and hard before joining the minor seminaries mentioned below (or any other minor seminary for that matter) and find all information you possibly can (good and bad) about the religious community in charge of those seminaries. Good luck with your discernment!
MPSchneiderLC said:
The Church still encourages dioceses and religious communities to have high school seminaries. Therefore, the Church thinks that someone can discern when they are under 18. We have many saints who discerned young.

Do most American seminarians discern at such a young age today? No, but I don’t see why that means some can’t. I also see that a diocese may not see the dedication of personel and money to such an endevour as the best use of reasources and not have high school seminaries. Each diocesean bishop and vocation director need to do what they think is best to promote vocations, and unless it is outright heresy or completely farsical, I don’t have the information to make a judgement.

Some dioceses and communities support minor seminaries, and unless we want to put ourselves above the Church’s judgement, we shouldn’t judge them either.

This is one option for discernent; staying at the parish is another. For some one is better, for some the other. Without speaking with someone personally, I have no way to tell which is better for them.

I myself am a memebr of the only community that maintains two high school seminaries in the US. We accept anyone who has the proper dispostions to discern if their parents too support the formation independent of economics. (Both start at 7th grade but we very often receive teenagers for 9th or 10th grade.)

One school is in New Hampshire: mylegionaries.org/articulo.phtml?se=377&ca=756&te=475&id=29843
The other in Indiana (near Chicago): mylegionaries.org/articulo.phtml?se=377&ca=756&te=475&id=29846
So neither are near Atlanta, unfortunately.

I was a member of the Community in Indiana 2 years while doing travelling ministry; and can tell you that it is a positive environment for teenagers discerning.

(Obviously, whether in a high school seminary or at hope, anyone discerning should be active in the local Church; I would take that as a given.)
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ByzCath said:
Can you point me to where the Holy See has stated that it wants high school seminaries?

I know that there is support and a call for more minor seminaries but today the term “minor seminary” is applied to college seminaries.
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First, Canon 234.1 which is the most present “Minor seminaries and other similar institutions are to be preserved, where they exist, and fostered; for the sake of fostering vocations, these institutions provide special religious formation together with instruction in the humanities and science. Where the diocesan bishop judges it expedient, he is to erect a minor seminary or similar institution.”
Here “minor seminary” means “high school seminary” according to current american parlance; the language has changed it the US (mainly since the 1983 code) but the Latin, Spanish and Italin clearly say the same and in Italy, Spain and Latin America this shift in vocabulary has not happened. (I can’t say for Germany, France, etc because I don’t speak those languages.)

To see this shift John Paul II addressed the Chicago minor seminarians in 1980 (official vatican text): vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/speeches/1979/october/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19791005_chicago-minor-seminary_en.html
But according to the Wikipedia page for Archbishop Quigley Preparatory Seminary (a high school seminary closed in 1990), this is the location: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Quigley_Preparatory_Seminary

Second, the Vatican maintains a high school seminary for Rome in the Vatican. It openly supports the creation of new high school seminaries throughout the world. the Congregation for bishops holds a course for new bishops in our house each year and the brothers who translate have told me personally that the issue has come up a number of times and the presenters (mainly Cardinals) always support minor seminaries.

Unfortunately in 10 minutes searching I could not find the “silver bullet” answer; I hope the explanation of the vocabulary shift since the 1983 code clears it up.
 
ByzCath said:
I do not believe this to be so as long as a religious superior calls one to be ordained.

The FSSP does not appear to be a pontifical institute which, I believe, is required for the pontifical degrees.

The reason I brought up degrees (other than ecclesial degrees) is that not every man who attends a seminary is ordained. When one attends an accredited minor seminary and then a major seminary they have a bachelors degree and if they did not finish the masters they at least have a number of credits of masters level course work done which can be transferred to another degree program. When one attends an unaccredited institution no course work can be transferred. Even with accredited institutions not all credits can be transferred.

I know no one attends the seminary thinking that they will not finish and be ordained but it does happen. After all discernment does not end with entry into the seminary, heck it doesn’t even end with ordination (or solemn vows). Really it never ends.
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I totally agree that any religious comunity should do all they can to have their studies approved by the state.

A religious superior can’t call you to be ordained unless you have the proper studies which means an ecclesial degree.

The FSSP is pontifical, I don’t think Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary is pontifical (minor clarification). Generally, I think completed pontifical degrees are transferable as a degree from another country, although transfers are tough. (One man left our house in Rome with one year of philosophy left and in the US, only the Josephenum [Pontifical] in Colombus would give him enough transfer credits to finish his degree in one year.)
 
MPSchneiderLC said:
…A religious superior can’t call you to be ordained unless you have the proper studies which means an ecclesial degree…
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It looks like you more that a lot of us on this topic. I would appreciate if you could give us a formal/official definition of what the ecclesial degree is and a reference that is mandated for ordination. This is quite a new topic for me and I would not mind having a little more detailed information for my own records. Thanks.
 
Cristiano said:
It looks like you more that a lot of us on this topic. I would appreciate if you could give us a formal/official definition of what the ecclesial degree is and a reference that is mandated for ordination. This is quite a new topic for me and I would not mind having a little more detailed information for my own records. Thanks.
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The general outlines are in Canon Law 232 and following.

Basic:
  • 2 years philosopy
  • 4 years theology (or 3 intense in Rome or a few other places)
  • All professors have a license (similar to a masters [but not a M. Div. which ecclesially is still a BST Bachelor’s of Sacred Theology]) from a pontifical institution
  • Instituted by a bishop or provincial
  • Following the national program of formation approved by Rome (religious communities or socities of apostolic life [FSSP for example] can have their own program)
Then the Vatican Congregation for Catholic Education makes some more specific degrees. From what I understand, all programs give a degree or degree-equivalent. Here in Rome, transcripts from just about any legitimate seminary are usually accepted for license (like a masters; the next studies in theology or philosophy) at most pontifical institutions independent of secular acreditation; which idicates that such studies have the value of a degree whether you get a nice sheet of paper or not.

I am not an expert here. This is just as far as I understand it, and I could be wrong.

I am currently studying theology at the Pontifical Atheneum Regina Apostorum [Queen of the Apostles], and am in my second semester of 2 (I hope in my life) of Canon Law.
 
MPSchneiderLC said:
The general outlines are in Canon Law 232 and following.

Basic:
  • 2 years philosopy
  • 4 years theology (or 3 intense in Rome or a few other places)
  • All professors have a license (similar to a masters [but not a M. Div. which ecclesially is still a BST Bachelor’s of Sacred Theology]) from a pontifical institution
  • Instituted by a bishop or provincial
  • Following the national program of formation approved by Rome (religious communities or socities of apostolic life [FSSP for example] can have their own program)
Then the Vatican Congregation for Catholic Education makes some more specific degrees. From what I understand, all programs give a degree or degree-equivalent. Here in Rome, transcripts from just about any legitimate seminary are usually accepted for license (like a masters; the next studies in theology or philosophy) at most pontifical institutions independent of secular acreditation; which idicates that such studies have the value of a degree whether you get a nice sheet of paper or not.

I am not an expert here. This is just as far as I understand it, and I could be wrong.

I am currently studying theology at the Pontifical Atheneum Regina Apostorum [Queen of the Apostles], and am in my second semester of 2 (I hope in my life) of Canon Law.
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Thanks for the info, next time I will be in Rome I will look you up. 🙂
 
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