Catholic High School with Disturbing Reading Lists

[juliamajor]

It is still a parent’s right to choose, not the teen- who is NOT footing the bill, and who may or may not be mature enough to read the material. To simply think all 18 year olds can read material based upon a birth date shows how much living some of the posters have not yet done. Come see me on your 40th birthday, those of you who have not hit it yet.

How will a child learn what he/she should choose if you don’t teach them.? They may don’t pay the bills but they do have brains. you seemed to fear books, novels. you should be more afraid what they are learning from peers out of school. That’s where the real mischief begins. How can our children be in the world but not of it if they don’t see or understand what a sewer the world can be.?
Maturity is not based on an age- that’s right- but neither is childhood…To expose the children to what is dark in the world- is not ripping their childhood away. It may be protecting it. By being open and honest with your kids is not detrimental to their spiritual health. Train them up the way to go as proverbs say.If sheltering is healthy and spiritually advantageous, then why do minister’s kid’s have lousy reputation.Being forbidden much and exposed to nothing one whiff of ‘freedom’ and they are off and running.
I find it personally bizarre that a book about rape would be considered somehow compromising one’s spiritual life or damaging to their chastity! And yes I have lived and I am over 40 and raised two kids successfully. Having read much- a broad spectrum-has not hurt my spiritual life (and I have been reading anything and everything since I was 8). I would love to see the statistics on the relationship of book reading to, promiscuity, sin and crime- as far as I know- there isn’t any…

 

[SmartyPants]

I’m still dumbfounded that there are adults who are making arguments based on what they read in “Cliff Notes.”

 

[PRmerger]

MamaZona;4451262.:

By 17, people can enter the armed forces with consent of a parent (correct me if I’m wrong) .

Yes–with, as you said, *the consent of a parent! * The underlying assumption is that a 17 yr old is not old enough to make this decision on his own.

 

[MamaZona]

Yes–with, as you said, *the consent of a parent! * The underlying assumption is that a 17 yr old is not old enough to make this decision on his own.

If you will look back at the rest of my post, I’m in favor of a compromise which would allow the school to teach in a manner serving both teens with parents who found the material objectionable and the ones who felt comfortable proceeding as planned.

My comment was meant to illustrate the fact 17 year olds are capable of exhibiting the level of maturity needed for such a task. That being said, not all 17 year olds have this capacity and weeding out who is or who isn’t should be done at the discretion of the parent.

Maturity is not a byproduct of some arbitrary number of years lived. This point should not be overlooked.

Again, the parents should have the veto power on this, but I see no harm in leaving the door open for those who do NOT find the material objectionable and wish to continue with the class.

Or am I to assume that you want the material and the lesson completely banned from the school with no exception made for those who might hold a different viewpoint?

 

[seremina]

I read the post that contained a sampling of the book in question. My conscience will probably never be properly formed, and I can tell you that though I -know- its the wrong way to approach the subject of child rape, there’s another part of me that is thrilled to see this sickening scene. I am not happy about the thrilled part, obviously. I’ve had a bad past as a child and beyond that, myself, so stuff like this is sickeningly almost second-nature to me. It should not be and I would hate for girls to read this material and somehow gain curiousity over it or even start to think odd thoughts about their fathers.

A far healthier alternative would be to have the girls read the biography of St. Maria Goretti. It puts rape in a far more approrpriate light and it shows them there are consequences. And more importantly, that child rape is wrong. It even shows how remorseful and sorry the rapist was! Best of all…the book is about REAL people, not a work of fiction. I’m not sure if this is realistic, but if you read too much fiction, you’ll become de-sensitised when evil things happen to real people. Before you know it, you’ll be watching movies, reading books, etc., and be cheering “Kill him! Kill him!” and “It would be thrilling if she died a tragic death!”, etc. It leads to disordered thinking.

So I hope a solution was reached?

 

[cat3gs]

This is how my poor simple little brain sees it. If you are like me when you read a book it is a very personal thing.A lot more powerful than just hearing about it or even seeing it on tv(unless of course its extrememly graphic). I can really get into books . After reading that one little snippet of the book that image is now engrained in my mind. It will forever be there. I dont want those kinds of images in my daughters mind just yet. Teens have enough going on now a days without stuff like that floating around in thier heads. My daughter gets enough negative images, ideas and **** thrown at her just from being at school, she doesnt need anything extra.
Does she need to know that stuff like that happens? Yes, does she need to have the complete mental image of it in her brain? NO. I for one wouldnt let her read the book. Monday she came home with Tess of the Durbervilles(SP?). And I told her I didnt want her reading it. There are better things out there to read. I also knew that the subject wasnt one she would be interested in anyway. I thank God everyday that that she(16yrs) isnt ready to rebel against me or her father yet. She still trusts us enough to agree with what we tell her. OF course she does have her own opinions and ideas. She is a teen

JMJ

 

[Ceil-1]

As one who was molested no fewer than nine times that I can remember, I know that subjecting a young person in formation and robbing them of their innocence is the SAME as doing it.

“Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!” (Matthew 18: 6-8/

Our Lord goes on to say that if one’s hand or foot causes us to sin, to cut it off.

I know I am in trouble for not being vigilant when we first got the internet and didn’t have the filters. My eight year old son put the f-word and some other words he learned in KINDERGARTEN. To this day, I can’t imagine what images he saw, but I know that he struggles with purity to this day. Oh yes, they had to give him the names of these private parts in kindergarten JUST IN CASE he were molested. Hello!? He was molested by the fact that he was given those words. If our kids are that much at risk, THEY SHOULD BE HOME.

This lame-o excuse that they are going to get it or learn about it in college? Are you for real? In college they will have CHOICES, and can choose for themselves to avoid these things, even if it costs them. And, believe me, God will bless that individual. You are making excuses for promoting sin, plain and simple. And I, for one, as a victim of it all in more ways than I will mention here,
AM SICK OF IT.

Wake up, people. Eternity is a long time to regret our negligence.

 

[elliejanba]

I can’t believe this conversation went on for so long, and I can’t believe so many BA in literature people have not read or at least are familiar with a Nobel prize winning author. I can’t imagine it, at least to me, because Toni Morrison comes to my school all the time to talk. What kind of college doesn’t have Nobel Peace prize writers speaking or lecturing at the school?

I don’t understand a parent wanting to not read the book with your child. YOU could use this as an opportunity to teach your child Christian values in the face of adversity, but instead you want to keep your child cloistered.

I do understand going through sexual abuse and not wanting to re-live it again. But I sort of think that you should be able to move on with your life. You can’t move on, if you think that everything is going to be an indicator of it. Even if it is a book that is similar to the issue at hand, what if it was a person who had similar events, would you ignore them if they wanted to talk to you?

Reading some of the responses in the forum make me ashamed to associate myself with Christians. This is making a mountain out of mole hill, when there are so many more pressing issues. What about saving women from sexual abuse? What about the spread of HIV and AIDS in young people? What about the rise and acceptance of homosexuality?

I think the last thing we should be doing is persecuting a Christian school for putting a Nobel Prize winning author on the reading list.

 

[PRmerger]

Again, the parents should have the veto power on this, but I see no harm in leaving the door open for those who do NOT find the material objectionable and wish to continue with the class.

Or am I to assume that you want the material and the lesson completely banned from the school with no exception made for those who might hold a different viewpoint?

Best case scenario: this material is removed from the curriculum.

Compromise: parents would receive a letter from the teacher indicating that controversial, sexually explicit, feminist material will be discussed. To balance the dark, perverse depiction of sexuality, the school should make mandatory an intensive study of JPII’s Theology of the Body, and his encyclical Mulieris Dignitatum.

Our girls need to be formed first in the beauty and dignity of their feminity, and in the beauty and dignity of our gift of sexuality–the way God has revealed it, not the way the world disguises.

 

[MamaZona]

Best case scenario: this material is removed from the curriculum.

Compromise: parents would receive a letter from the teacher indicating that controversial, sexually explicit, feminist material will be discussed. To balance the dark, perverse depiction of sexuality, the school should make mandatory an intensive study of JPII’s Theology of the Body, and his encyclical Mulieris Dignitatum.

Our girls need to be formed first in the beauty and dignity of their feminity, and in the beauty and dignity of our gift of sexuality–the way God has revealed it, not the way the world disguises.

Okay, so, am I correct in the understanding that you do not just find the material objectionable for YOUR daughter you find it objectionable in general and feel that NO student should review this material–no matter what their respective parents might say?

I have no problem with your solution for compromise–it isn’t unreasonable.

I don’t, however, see how it would be fair for you to attempt to parent the other teens in the class by demanding a ban on the curriculum. If it is okay for you to decide what is acceptable for your daughter, why can’t the other parents make an informed decision of their own? If the school is willing to teach both, why not allow both to be taught?

 

[MamaZona]

I can’t believe this conversation went on for so long, and I can’t believe so many BA in literature people have not read or at least are familiar with a Nobel prize winning author. I can’t imagine it, at least to me, because Toni Morrison comes to my school all the time to talk. What kind of college doesn’t have Nobel Peace prize writers speaking or lecturing at the school?

I don’t understand a parent wanting to not read the book with your child. YOU could use this as an opportunity to teach your child Christian values in the face of adversity, but instead you want to keep your child cloistered.

I do understand going through sexual abuse and not wanting to re-live it again. But I sort of think that you should be able to move on with your life. You can’t move on, if you think that everything is going to be an indicator of it. Even if it is a book that is similar to the issue at hand, what if it was a person who had similar events, would you ignore them if they wanted to talk to you?

Reading some of the responses in the forum make me ashamed to associate myself with Christians. This is making a mountain out of mole hill, when there are so many more pressing issues. What about saving women from sexual abuse? What about the spread of HIV and AIDS in young people? What about the rise and acceptance of homosexuality?

I think the last thing we should be doing is persecuting a Christian school for putting a Nobel Prize winning author on the reading list.

I’m having a hard time seeing why even a compromise is not considered as desirable as a total ban.

There are even some who would suggest parents willing to read it with their child or permit the school to have a discussion of the material are as bad as the sexual abusers of children?

On the other side of this, people accepting of the literature are so keen on freedoms they would force-feed the “learning experience” to the parents and teens alike in the name of higher learning. The fact that such an aggressive position would probably deter some good students from continuing their exploration of knowledge at a later date notwithstanding. It sounds more “free spirited” but is as close-minded and self-righteous as the other perspective

Meanwhile, as you rightly state, there are far more pressing issues desperately in need of attention which threaten the wellfare of our children and grandchildren and are not being addressed.

What a mess

 

[gardenswithkids]

I can’t believe this conversation went on for so long, …

I can’t believe this conversation has gone on this long either.

I can’t believe that so many here see parents as narrow minded and bigoted when we want Catholic schools to select literature for mandatory reading assignments that deals with more uplifting topics than black men commiting incest and rape.

I also can’t believe that so many of you think wanting a book not be mandatory reading, discussion, essay writing and testing in a literature class actually equates with banning books. If that is book banning, then most literature classes must “ban” all but about a dozen books per year.

 

[whatevergirl]

I can’t believe this conversation has gone on this long either.

I can’t believe that so many here see parents as narrow minded and bigoted when we want Catholic schools to select literature for mandatory reading assignments that deals with more uplifting topics than black men commiting incest and rape.

I also can’t believe that so many of you think wanting a book not be mandatory reading, discussion, essay writing and testing in a literature class actually equates with banning books. If that is book banning, then most literature classes must “ban” all but about a dozen books per year.

Agreed.

 

[leonie]

You know, when I taught public school (high school), I had to send a permission note home to show a movie that had the word

“s–t” in it.

That was fifteen years ago.

 

[MamaZona]

I can’t believe this conversation has gone on this long either.

I can’t believe that so many here see parents as narrow minded and bigoted when we want Catholic schools to select literature for mandatory reading assignments that deals with more uplifting topics than black men commiting incest and rape.

I also can’t believe that so many of you think wanting a book not be mandatory reading, discussion, essay writing and testing in a literature class actually equates with banning books. If that is book banning, then most literature classes must “ban” all but about a dozen books per year.

I don’t think it is narrow minded to parent as you see fit up to the time your child reaches the age of majority. I think it is the duty of the parent TO parent.

Having the curriculum thrown out above all other options is, in its own way, a ban on it. Taking issue with the “mandatory” stamp is another animal alltogether. There should be room for compromise.

The only problem I really see here, personally, is the “mandatory” label in either direction. Mandating that the curriculum be barred or mandatory that the children read it—both are polar extremes and grossly unfair to students and parents alike.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t think it is narrow minded to parent as you see fit up to the time your child reaches the age of majority. I think it is the duty of the parent TO parent.

But aren’t you calling the parents who object to this material “narrow minded” in this quote (from your post #211):

*It sounds more “free spirited” but is as close-minded and self-righteous as the other perspective *??

 

[Joe_5859]

I mentioned on another post this thought: If you can drive a car, you can read a book. If you lack discernment enough to pick a book, you probably shouldn’t be given the keys to a potentially deadly weapon.

By 17, people can enter the armed forces with consent of a parent (correct me if I’m wrong) and some have already entered college. Some are married–and not just because they got “in trouble” necessarily. I believe a lot of these “kids” more than have the capacity to handle this material in a mature fashion.

Still, given the heartfelt outcry of the sincere individuals on this thread, I think the school should give an alternative to students and parents alike. Some students may genuinely be as uncomfortable as their parents are with the subject. Traumatizing students/parents and breeding enmity between teachers/parents (who should be partners) isn’t exactly the best way to go.

Parents know their children best, and perhaps there are many valid reasons to keep certain teens from this subject. They may lack the readiness. The parents and teens themselves should be free to decide this, without pressure.

The word here should be COMPROMISE. Complete censorship goes too far, complete acceptance does also. To me, it would be most prudent to leave alternatives for those who feel strongly about the matter rather than cramming it down their throats (who likes that???)

If you make learning miserable, that’s the best way to make sure no one ever wants to do it again. I don’t think anyone (on either side of this discussion) wants that to happen.

I think this is the most sensible post I’ve read so far.

 

[MamaZona]

But aren’t you calling the parents who object to this material “narrow minded” in this quote (from your post #211):

*It sounds more “free spirited” but is as close-minded and self-righteous as the other perspective *??

I’m saying that pushing for the curriculum to be thrown out without the chance for others who hold an opposing view to have their wishes considered is narrow-minded.

Objecting to the material or accepting the material are on equal footing in my mind. It is the attempt to force those thoughts on others without respect for their opinion that I find narrow-minded.

The two thought lines that I disagree with are:

1. “I’m going to make everyone accept this curriculum.”
2. “I’m going to make sure no one has access to this curriculum.”

I think the only reasonable stance is to say:

I like/dislike this curriculum for my child and am willing to let it be taught/not be taught to my child, however, I respect the rights of the school/other parens to participate/not participate at their own discretion.

Sorry for the confusion.

 

[whatevergirl]

I guess Mama, my question to that is…why does a school curriculum need to have this subject matter? Is this really going to prepare kids for the next steps in their academic life?

 

[MamaZona]

I guess Mama, my question to that is…why does a school curriculum need to have this subject matter? Is this really going to prepare kids for the next steps in their academic life?

Does it need to have this subject matter specifically? No, but it does need to have challenging subject matter that moves the students outside of comfort-zone thinking. Whether this is too far out of that comfort zone is for the parent to say–through a permission slip, etc.

The next step in their education will ask them hard and unpleasant questions. They need to be able to answer them and face the challenge without fear and with full confidence in their faith.

Will the world stop turning if a 17 year old does not read this book? No. But it might be a real mess if we go around forcing our opinions on others and/or running and hiding from everything we find frightening or objectionable. As Christians we should be able to tackle the tough questions and find peaceful resolutions in a mature and even-handed fashion.