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OutinChgoburbs
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I strongly disagree. The father’s voice is used big time.
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faithfulone
Guest
While it is used in certain parts of the book “big time” it is not throughout the book.
The book is really more about racial issues and how blacks view themselves and how others view them and how these views effect them etc.
I really could not stand the book, but then I think it had more to do with the author whose writing style I find hard to get into.
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whatevergirl
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No, I’m sorry, you are incorrect. Nah, I don’t want to read the entire book…the two excerpts were disgusting enough.
Like graceandglory said…young minds are too precious to waste…and the purpose of sending one’s kids to Catholic school is to get a Catholic education not a liberal secular one.
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OutinChgoburbs
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Consecrated
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Exactly.
As my mom always says… “You don’t have to go down in the sewer to know that it stinks.”
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HouseArrest
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I am in agreement this shouldn’t be mandatory reading. I have read excerpts from the book on www.pabbis.com awhile ago. I usually use the list to know what to avoid in choosing reading material for my kids (age 13 and under).Exactly. Something like this should be optional reading, not mandatory. It really concerns me that a Catholic school would make this MANDATORY reading. I mean, who chose this book? A person in the clergy? That is even more alarming.
Too many red flags with this Catholic school. I’m also concerned that Catholic parents on this forum, are all not in agreement that this book shouldn’t be mandatory reading.
I’m just alarmed in general, today, maybe.
I haven’t posted until now because by the time I collect my thoughts on the discussion at hand I come on here and someone has written down what I was thinking! The only things I have to add are very simple:
- There are millions of books out there on any subject a teacher might want to teach about. Pick a different one.
- If one has a steady diet of this type of reading, they are going to get real comfortable with it. No more shock value. Why not read what is good?
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masha
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Wow, is this thread really all about The Bluest Eye? It’s not an amazing book, but it isn’t half so bad as all that! High school students aren’t just little sponges, she should be reading books she disagrees with, so that she can learn to critique them intellegently, not simple react to them as so many students do now. And the book is focused on the victim and her suffering; it does use the rapist point-of-view at times, which is actually very helpful to the reader (much like a poor imitation of Lolita, which is entirely from the point-of-view of the rapist and entirely focused on the suffering of the victim).
The main thing is that modern literature likes to look at the underside of the world, if your daughter is going to get through any University English program she needs to be able to read and understand this literature. Even in good Catholic universities (I went to Steubenville) she will be reading the likes of Toni Morrison, Nabakov, Faulkner, and others who like darker themes. Toni Morrison is one of the least talented, but you can’t ban her for that.
If it really disturbs you, read it, and discuss the book with her outside of class, ask how it is being discussed and let your daughter tell you what she thinks of the book. You might be pleasently surprised.
God bless,
Masha
The main thing is that modern literature likes to look at the underside of the world, if your daughter is going to get through any University English program she needs to be able to read and understand this literature. Even in good Catholic universities (I went to Steubenville) she will be reading the likes of Toni Morrison, Nabakov, Faulkner, and others who like darker themes. Toni Morrison is one of the least talented, but you can’t ban her for that.
If it really disturbs you, read it, and discuss the book with her outside of class, ask how it is being discussed and let your daughter tell you what she thinks of the book. You might be pleasently surprised.
God bless,
Masha
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Consecrated
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OK, my BA in Lit is from Steubenville as well, and I read plenty of books I didn’t like (really don’t favor most American Lit., personally), but I NEVER EVER EVER read anything like that excerpt from Morrison.
I don’t understand why people think this book is necessary for a person to excel in Literature?
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pumpkinbeast
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I haven’t read the entire thread, but I did see the paragraph posted from the book, and a some of the other posts… Honestly, I don’t care if that description was about child rape or sex between a husband and wife, 16-17yos DO NOT NEED TO BE READING IT. I don’t care if the rest of the book was edifying in anyway, that one paragraph would ruin it for me. I didn’t even read the entire thing, I think I read the first two sentences and had to stop, and skip the rest, and if there is worse, as indicated by PPs… I have been very turned off my reading lately due to stumbling upon a book that I thought, from it’s descriptions, would be about midwifery a few hundred years ago… boy, was I wrong! I gave up not even halfway through, there were TOO MANY ugly and graphic descriptions of sexual acts for me to enjoy the book at ALL or even think about what kind of message it may have been trying to give, it was just sex, sex, sex! And I’m a couple years older than the 16yos, too, so I have a better handle on my hormones and the like; what are these kind of descriptions going to do to them??? And they aren’t given any choice whether to read the book or not! Teenagers are bombarded enough with sex every where else, they don’t need more!
Reading this kind of stuff DOES affect how you think. I HATE reading books about sex-obsessed pigs that call themselves men. I had a bad experience when I was younger that made me paranoid around men, and it doesn’t take much to trigger it again for me(it wasn’t like I was raped or anything, either). But I don’t want to have descriptions about what may or may not be happening to a man’s body floating about in my head that my imagination may draw upon! This is a HORRID way to get people who may have been abused to talk about what happened to them; they have enough bad memories on their own without having to consider what their molester may have been thinking about or feeling!
Honestly, I think it would take a very strong and prepared person to be able to read this book and actually figure out what the author was getting at; not forcing it on 16-17yos who are still trying to figure their own bodies and urges without having descriptions of sick and twisted types of sex running around their hormonal brains. :banghead:
I have been very turned off my reading lately due to stumbling upon a book that I thought, from it’s descriptions, would be about midwifery a few hundred years ago… boy, was I wrong! I gave up not even halfway through, there were TOO MANY ugly and graphic descriptions of sexual acts for me to enjoy the book at ALL or even think about what kind of message it may have been trying to give, it was just sex, sex, sex! And I’m a couple years older than the 16yos, too, so I have a better handle on my hormones and the like; what are these kind of descriptions going to do to them??? And they aren’t given any choice whether to read the book or not! Teenagers are bombarded enough with sex every where else, they don’t need more!Reading this kind of stuff DOES affect how you think. I HATE reading books about sex-obsessed pigs that call themselves men. I had a bad experience when I was younger that made me paranoid around men, and it doesn’t take much to trigger it again for me(it wasn’t like I was raped or anything, either). But I don’t want to have descriptions about what may or may not be happening to a man’s body floating about in my head that my imagination may draw upon! This is a HORRID way to get people who may have been abused to talk about what happened to them; they have enough bad memories on their own without having to consider what their molester may have been thinking about or feeling!
Honestly, I think it would take a very strong and prepared person to be able to read this book and actually figure out what the author was getting at; not forcing it on 16-17yos who are still trying to figure their own bodies and urges without having descriptions of sick and twisted types of sex running around their hormonal brains. :banghead:
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PRmerger
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Not sure what you mean by “pleasantly surprised”. Do you mean that I’ll be happy that she finds the material grotesque?
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masha
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I don’t think that a student needs to read Toni Morrison to excel at literature, I personally don’t think she’s a very strong writer. It isn’t about this book being necessary to excel at literature but being able to read, understand*, and reject rather than simply reacting to something ugly.
To PRmerger: I mean that you might be surprised to discover your daughter has a strong mind and is thinking deeply (perhaps more deeply than Ms. Morrison) about the problem of evil in the world.
God bless,
Masha
“Whoever does not affirm at some time or other with a definate - yes…the terribleness of life, never takes possession of the unutterable powers of our eistence;” Ranier Maria Rilke*
To PRmerger: I mean that you might be surprised to discover your daughter has a strong mind and is thinking deeply (perhaps more deeply than Ms. Morrison) about the problem of evil in the world.
God bless,
Masha
“Whoever does not affirm at some time or other with a definate - yes…the terribleness of life, never takes possession of the unutterable powers of our eistence;” Ranier Maria Rilke*
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juliamajor
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Oh,please ! I’m 56 yrs old and was reading "A Catcher in the Rye"when it was regarded as perverted.Also other books that ‘white folks’ in general would find disturbing. No matter what you think literature of any kind speaks of a reality that we might not agree with, understand or want. Rape and incest are part of reality and it should be portrayed as sickeningly as Morrison portrayed it. Because she is reflecting on the reality of a situation that too many people know only too well.Would it be better to not make it as disgusting and repulsive as it actually is?Hearts and flowers? Then she would lose the message .Her own horror and disgust about such events are coming through her words.When a person writes they are coming from a place where they have to disregard what should and shouldn’t be talked or written about, because “it’s not nice”. You have to write from the gut and write as true as you can get.It’s visceral.To not be visceral would be to be untrue to what you think and feel as a writer and as a human being. Is it disturbing? Yes- should it be? Yes!Maybe a book like this can move a student in aiding rape and incest victims or going into law enforcement, or doing a hundred positive things to help and be compassionate to these “wounded ones”. Titillation is not what she is trying to achieve- and I would feel sorry for anyone who found it titillating. The world is dark and there is much evil out there.To protect your children from it is a mother’s instinct- but this would not be helpful.If you’ve given them good solid background and a grounding in God and His love then I would have no fear in my child reading anything-I allowed my children to read anything as my mother allowed me to read anything. That freedom allowed me to see and reject that which was unwholesome- there was no “forbidden fruit” so temptation was not as strong. So where has it brought me and mine.? I teach Adult Bible study and Adult faith formation- my son works for the poor . Discuss and read what your child reads but do it without a negative bent.Let them tell you how they feel about it- how it affects them emotionally and intellectually. Believe me you way more to fear from their peers and their examples then you do from a book! God Bless!
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yellowbird
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I really can’t add anything that hasn’t already been said. I agree with leonie… this is disgusting and I would not allow MY daughter or son to read it.
I wish I hadn’t read the parts posted here.
No suprise that Oprah found it fabulous. That would’ve been my first clue.
I wish I hadn’t read the parts posted here.
No suprise that Oprah found it fabulous. That would’ve been my first clue.
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Annn
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I wasn’t referring to your post, OutinChgo suburbs! No need to get alarmed.
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yellowbird
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I don’t see the need to discuss the softening of the lips of the stepfather’s anus with my 16 year old.
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juliamajor
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Wow -I’ve read a good number of books on the" Bad Book list"it’s really rather pathetic and sad to see such nonsense. Reading excerpts is not like reading the whole book and taking excerpts out of context is rather like taking a verse of scripture out of context- it’s dangerous. Forearming your children against the world is a much better choice then sheltering or condemning it.
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whatevergirl
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True, but I wouldn’t want to be paying for this type of classroom instruction. If you see nothing wrong with it, that is your choice, but this is a far leap from Catcher in the Rye. No one is sheltering kids here…it’s a matter of more appropriate alternatives to teach the same lesson.Wow -I’ve read a good number of books on the" Bad Book list"it’s really rather pathetic and sad to see such nonsense. Reading excerpts is not like reading the whole book and taking excerpts out of context is rather like taking a verse of scripture out of context- it’s dangerous. Forearming your children against the world is a much better choice then sheltering or condemning it.
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OutinChgoburbs
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Precisely. And it’s my opinion this particular author was used because she is African-American, not because she is good at her craft. That angers me as well.
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whatevergirl
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It’s not. Much of literature, like art, is for individual interpretation. I might read Grapes of Wrath and love it…you might loathe it. But, this is different than the simple critiquing of literature, or the mere disliking of a particular author’s writing style. The content is not appropriate for teen girls, let alone teen girls attempting to receive a Catholic education. Plus, her writing isn’t all that clever. Maybe that is why teens are encouraged to read it…because to me, it’s boring and trying too hard to be illustrative. But a teen might view it as shocking and impressive.
I would like to know why it was chosen. That is what I’m curious about.
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whatevergirl
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There are plenty of good African American authors out there. Who knows…I’m curious as to why though, also.
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