Catholic history is disturbing

[estesbob]

And that is why I am a “CAFERTERIA CATHOLIC”.
Only God is infallible, no one else! Based on this, I feel that blindly following all the teaching of the CHURCH which is made up of human people who claim to be under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but still human and capable of making wrong decisions, is not too palpable for me. God said " Those of you without sin, cast the first stone" No one could!

How can the Church comdemn pedophiliacs when there are so many people within the Church that have engaged in such discusting practices. Before their activities were brought into the open after many years, these priests still said mass and received the holy host. Talk about committing MORTAL SINS!
When the Church found out about it, in many instances the Bishop just transfered the priest to another parish and no one knew any beter. That is like saying "Do as I say, but don’t do as I do!

I have asked God for so many favors and HE has always answerd me! If I am such a bad person because I do NOT follow all the teaching to a T, why HE’s always there for me!

If being a perfect Catholic is what gets us into heaven, then just out of curiosity, where are all the other people from different religions go when they die?

I am a Cradle Catholic, meaning have not converted to this religion, but was born into it. All the people I know are the same and all share the same beliefs. I honestly can say that I really do NOT know anyone who truly followes all that the Church teaches and I am sure that many people who profess to be 100% Catholics, if they really look deep down in their hearts, may not really be, but are afraid to even admit it to themselves.

sorry this post is so long!

1. There is almost no pediophilia in the priest sexual abuse scandal. It was almost exclusively homosexual rape of post pubescent boys. Of course this does not take away from the evil that was perpetuated but we can’t solve the problem if we don’t acknowledge what the root of the problem is I am as angry about this as anyone and made my thoughts known both to my pastor and face-to-face with my Bishop.
2. If the Church can only condemn sins that members of the Church have not committed then it might as well shut down .
3. Perhaps you could give us an idea of what teachings of the church you reject so we could understand exactly what it is you mean by cafeteria Catholic
4. The only ones who truly followed all theCchurch teaches would appear to be Jesus and Mary since doing so would require perfection. That does not, however, mean that we should not strive to follow all the teachings of the church.
5. I suspect your parents, as did mine,told you long ago that “everybody else does it” is not a good excuse

 

[FM927]

this is for Estersbob.
I was happy and content and now since I started reading this forum I am so confused.
Let’s see what issues I don’t agree with:

1. pre-marital sex is NOT ok even if it is between two people
   who love each other.
2. that contraception is NOT the choice of each individual person.
3. that abortion is NOT ok if incest or rape is involved.
4. that if you miss church you have committed a mortal sin.
5. that talking to a medium who can comminicate with the
   departed and let’s you know that your dead parents are OK
   (I don’t mean a quack, but a legitimate person who as far as I
   am concerned got this gift from God) is NOT ok.
   (as an additional point: some mediums help police find missing
   people, so they can’t be doing the work of the devil)

I am sure there must be other issues that at this moment elude me.

I have tried to read the Bible, but I just can’t get into it.

I guess I am doomed.

 

[Peter_J]

I have tried to read the Bible, but I just can’t get into it.

I guess I am doomed.

Try starting with one of the Gospels – St. Luke perhaps.

 

[estesbob]

this is for Estersbob.
I was happy and content and now since I started reading this forum I am so confused.

Let’s see what issues I don’t agree with:

1. pre-marital sex is NOT ok even if it is between two people
   who love each other.

Correct

1. that contraception is NOT the choice of each individual person.
   Correct
2. that abortion is NOT ok if incest or rape is involved.
   Correct
3. that if you miss church you have committed a mortal sin.

If your missing meets the three conditions necesary for a sin to be mortal

1. that talking to a medium who can comminicate with the
   departed and let’s you know that your dead parents are OK
   (I don’t mean a quack, but a legitimate person who as far as I
   am concerned got this gift from God) is NOT ok.
   (as an additional point: some mediums help police find missing
   people, so they can’t be doing the work of the devil)

Correct

I have tried to read the Bible, but I just can’t get into it.

I guess I am doomed

Incorrect

.

BTW-for what its worth I have problems with 2 & 4(I have a problem with forbidding barrier methods of contraception) BUT accept them becuase I consider the Church infallible in matters of faith and morals.

 

[Reuben_J]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

Now I got to disagree with you when you make it sounds this way. Yes we had bad Popes and some bad clergies in the past. Some of the root causes of this problem had been rectified by enforcing certain discipline; at the same time its effect was the strengthening of the Church. One such discipline is the requirement of celibacy for priests.

In modern day Catholic Church such corruption has been controlled, at least from the top level - the Vatican. Of course we still see errand priests and Bishops at the local level but the incidences are minimal. You have to see the bigger picture - there are nearly 1.5 billions Catholics today.

If you talk about lust for power, yes, to certain extend we can experience disappointment with regards to this at the diocese or parish levels, not only as exemplified by the clergies but more so with the lay church officials. But this is in no way detract from the purpose of the Church as the custodian of God’s word and his people.

I am certainly not proud of certain aspects of the church history. But then again even in the OT we see bad kings and judges. With the bads we learn to be good and sometimes they can have a purpose in the life of the church without us wanting them to happen. However, I am proud of the church that despite all the difficulties and trials that she has gone through she is still very much alive.

Praise God.

 

[pismopal]

Our Church is the oldest institution in the western world. To compare the actions of some in an ancient culture to the enlightened societies of our time is unfair and unrealistic. On the other side we have records of dedicated saints who did acts of kindness and mercy that could hardly be matched by Christians today. I heard a radio priest say that whatever you say about some in the Church could be true because there have been good and bad but the Church is still here as Jesus promised She would be. That is the miracle and I am proud…thankful, to be Catholic and I would never say that I am ashamed of this magnificent tapestry…woven by people world wide…sinners and saints.

 

[estesbob]

Our Church is the oldest institution in the western world. To compare the actions of some in an ancient culture to the enlightened societies of our time is unfair and unrealistic. On the other side we have records of dedicated saints who did acts of kindness and mercy that could hardly be matched by Christians today. I heard a radio priest say that whatever you say about some in the Church could be true because there have been good and bad but the Church is still here as Jesus promised She would be. That is the miracle and I am proud…thankful, to be Catholic and I would never say that I am ashamed of this magnificent tapestry…woven by people world wide…sinners and saints.

actually in som ways those societies were a lot more enlightened than we are. After the cult of BAAL collapsed we did not see widespread state sanctioned infanticide on the scale we do today

 

[Snow]

People are sinners. Nothing surprising about that.

However, overall the Catholic Church has been a beacon of hope for the world and a steady guide in the truth of the Gospel.

While I agree that the history is disturbing, I also whole heartedly agree that the RCC has been a beacon. It has formed the foundation of Western Civilization in most all areas - law, education, art, culture, sciences… truly a marvelous history to go along with the not so marvelous.

 

[peary]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

Did you ever delve into Catholic history and found how it has, through its members, fulfilled the corporal and spiritual works of mercy among all peoples and in all eras, has brought Christ into the lives of untold millions, and have you ever taken the time to read about the lives of the saints? I find it really hard NOT to be really proud of my Catholic roots, corruption or not. And the “corruption and lust for power” you so glibly mention in one sweeping statement is a fantasy of yours. Go read some Catholic periodicals such as National Catholic Register or Our Sunday Visitor or St. Anthony Messenger or even National Catholic Reporter and check your misperception (and deception) at the door.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I just think that suupah does not have a real good understanding of the Catholic faith.
266 popes, 68 are saints, 12 were “bad”. Jesus said there would be both good and bad in his church…and?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Who said that? That is so mean!

That was Christ Himself, to the church at Laodicea. (see Revelation 3 for the detail)​

 

[zach_dunn]

“You are Peter and on this rock I shall build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (sorry, don’t know the exact verse and chapter but I’m pretty sure it’s in Mathew’s Gospel, emphasis mine)

Jesus wouldn’t have said this if the gates of hell weren’t going to try, yet, here we are, stronger than ever thanks to the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

And, I am grateful to the Lord that He chose the Catholic church to give the bible to, and to give it the truth and Grace that he has entrusted it to.

 

[Snow]

Our Church is the oldest institution in the western world. To compare the actions of some in an ancient culture to the enlightened societies of our time is unfair and unrealistic. On the other side we have records of dedicated saints who did acts of kindness and mercy that could hardly be matched by Christians today. I heard a radio priest say that whatever you say about some in the Church could be true because there have been good and bad but the Church is still here as Jesus promised She would be. That is the miracle and I am proud…thankful, to be Catholic and I would never say that I am ashamed of this magnificent tapestry…woven by people world wide…sinners and saints.

I think that a more relevant way to look at it is not whether the actions of some are on par with other bad people of the time, but rather were the actions of those who claimed to represent God in line with the principles of goodness that they publicly espoused.

For example, you can take an evil cleric, say Pope Urban VI and say that compared to someone like Constantine the Great, he was an okay guy. That’s hardly relevant. Next to immoral secular rulers, anyone looks good.

A better question is whether or not religious authorities act in accordance with the mores and teachings of the religion they represent and whether of not that religion is in line with the what Jesus taught.

 

[christcnection1]

For every wicked sinner in the Church there are ten other people who are saintly individuals. What other institution in the history of mankind has so many individuals like Mother Theresa? None.

And yes, someone mentioned this before: The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a showcase for Saints. Christ called the unrighteous to repentance, something all Christians should be working out with fear and trembling.

The same also applies with all the good the Church has done. There are far more positive things the Church has done than any evil it has committed.

Indeed, we should be held to a higher standard. You don’t have an argument from me there. Where would any of us be without mercy and grace? (It would probably be in prison or in the ground for me.) Thank God He gave me a multiple chances, though I probably didn’t deserve it!

Perhaps those hurt by the Church ought to give Her another chance too. We are called to reconcile with one another. When we throw mud at one another we lose ground.

Peace and Blessings…

 

[Snow]

And, I am grateful to the Lord that He chose the Catholic church to give the bible to, and to give it the truth and Grace that he has entrusted it to.

I don’t know that I’d put it that way.

No Catholic wrote a single word of the Bible. The majority of the Bibles in the world today have a different canonical list of books in them than the Catholic Bible. The selection of which books went into the Bible started long before there was a Catholic Church and most of the books that are in the standard Bible were not picked by anyone in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did have a significant role in finalizing, eventually, the New Testament list of books - but the Catholic institution didn’t do it alone and their list is not even definitive - not everyone agrees with it.

 

[estesbob]

I don’t know that I’d put it that way.

No Catholic wrote a single word of the Bible. The majority of the Bibles in the world today have a different canonical list of books in them than the Catholic Bible. The selection of which books went into the Bible started long before there was a Catholic Church and most of the books that are in the standard Bible were not picked by anyone in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did have a significant role in finalizing, eventually, the New Testament list of books - but the Catholic institution didn’t do it alone and their list is not even definitive - not everyone agrees with it.

I guess since you belong to a faith that has existed for less than 150 years you have to reject evertythnig that went before Joesph Smith BUT nothing you say above is supported by history. The Catholic Church started with Christ-before one word of the New testament was written. There was no great apostasy, the Church did compile the Bible we uses today. Although Protestants have since rejected some books and Joseph Smith changed any verse that didnt support his personal views all that came LONG after the Church had given us Scripture.

 

[ralphinal]

I don’t know that I’d put it that way.

No Catholic wrote a single word of the Bible. The majority of the Bibles in the world today have a different canonical list of books in them than the Catholic Bible. The selection of which books went into the Bible started long before there was a Catholic Church and most of the books that are in the standard Bible were not picked by anyone in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did have a significant role in finalizing, eventually, the New Testament list of books - but the Catholic institution didn’t do it alone and their list is not even definitive - not everyone agrees with it.

History does not agree, unless you consider the first Church on earth established by Christ to be more Orthodox than Catholic.

Either way, one of the two did it.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I don’t know that I’d put it that way.

No Catholic wrote a single word of the Bible. The majority of the Bibles in the world today have a different canonical list of books in them than the Catholic Bible. The selection of which books went into the Bible started long before there was a Catholic Church and most of the books that are in the standard Bible were not picked by anyone in the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church did have a significant role in finalizing, eventually, the New Testament list of books - but the Catholic institution didn’t do it alone and their list is not even definitive - not everyone agrees with it.

Well, your information is incorrect and I do not know where you get it from, but if it weren’t for the Catholic church who compiled the bible, approved by the Roman Pontiff in 394 A.D. at the Council of Carthage, you wouldn’t even have a bible. I know as a non-Catholic Christian I assume, that this is very hard to swallow should we not have historical documents and historical evidence of this that happened.
No Protestant was even around to see the light of day since only what, say 500 years ago. Catholics were the first Christians, the people were thoroughly Catholic in belief. How do we know this? By the Early Church Fathers, writings from the saints and the writings on the Catacomb walls. St. Ignatius first used the term Catholic as early as 107 A.D.
Who do you think put to writing? There were only bishops and monks back then. Catholic. St. Jerome translated the bible from Hebrew to Latin then to English.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

History does not agree, unless you consider the first Church on earth established by Christ to be more Orthodox than Catholic.

Either way, one of the two did it.

It was done by Catholics. They were Catholic in belief. History proves this.