Catholic history is disturbing

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Cinette said:
I came to CAF to debate, discuss, share and learn.

I have learned a great deal. I have also experienced threads where people are extremely rude and harbour hatred for the Catholic Church.

I have also met some wonderful people both Catholic and Protestant.

I choose to be selective and when I come across individuals who are ignorant, rude, disrespectful and obnoxious I prefer to get away from them. One can learn absolutely nothing from them. They have no dignity and pride.

:eek: :sad_bye: :takeoff: :tiphat: :tiphat:
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:rolleyes:
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
The word church appears:
1Tim 3:15
Ephesians 3:10
Acts 2:47 KJB (note the singular, “the church”)
1Cor. 14:12
Acts 20:28 KJB
Ephes 5:25
Ephes 5:29
Ephes 1:22-23, 5:23
Ephes 5:27
Matt 16:18
and 18:17
Acts 5:11
Romans 16:23
1Cor 1:2
2Cor 1:1
Galatians 1:13
Ephes 1:22
Phillipians 3:6 and 4:15
Colossians 1:18
1Thess. 1:1
Titus 3:15 KJB
Philemon 1:2
Hebrewa 2:12 and 12:23
James 5:14
1Peter 5:13
3John 1:6 and 1:9-10
Revelation 2:1
Since all of these mention the word CHURCH, the church had to have been in existence already for years before they were written.

Who’s your daddy now? 😃
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The greek word ekklesia should be translated congregation or assembly of the Lord not church!

Just call me Pops:D
 
wisdomseeker said:
that is what happens when people are out of the CC. lack of understand rules.

did you not realize that the rich man asked abraham to help him and his family?

again, what is your problem? stop trying to know more than those who were there and learned from Jesus Himself, which is the Church. no matter what you say here has no weight against the Church that Jesus found.

if you want to follow those who preach that the Bible is all you need than go ahead. that is all you will ever know.

as for us will follow the Church built by Christ. the Pillar and bullwark of TRUTH. hope you get it. i doubt it you will.

Peace.
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You have cited one scripture BTW the biblical standard is two or three witnesses. And the one scripture you use is not even relevant to you point.

Im not going to waste my time but as I have said you have been taught wrong it is not your fault but you will be held accountable for having heard the truth and rejecting it.
 
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Hisalone:
So you are willing to cite a website that uses no scholarly citations. Interesting. You fully understand that doing so shows a clear agenda and an attempt to avoid academic testing.

Yes, God told them to make Cherubs for the arc. He also had them make the snake on the pole. So, it is not a prohibition on statues. It is against worshiping them. If you would read something other than anti-CAtholic garbage, you would know that Catholics do not worship statues, either.

You still need to show me your church in the first 1400 years since Jesus’s Life. And I would love to see how you understand continuous revelation.
 
ralphinal said:
So you are willing to cite a website that uses no scholarly citations. Interesting. You fully understand that doing so shows a clear agenda and an attempt to avoid academic testing.

Yes, God told them to make Cherubs for the arc. He also had them make the snake on the pole. So, it is not a prohibition on statues. It is against worshiping them. If you would read something other than anti-CAtholic garbage, you would know that Catholics do not worship statues, either.

You still need to show me your church in the first 1400 years since Jesus’s Life. And I would love to see how you understand continuous revelation.
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Christianity Today is respected so stop erecting straw men.
However about the best source on line is this
Gradually a number of prevailing practices of the nations into which Christianity came were assimilated and were combined with the religious ceremonies surrounding Christmas. The assimilation of such practices generally represented efforts by Christians to transform or absorb otherwise pagan practices.

The Feast of Saturnalia in early Rome, for example, was celebrated for 7 days from the 17th to the 24th of December and was marked by a spirit of merriment, gift giving to children and other forms of entertainment. Gradually, early Christians replaced the pagan feast with the celebration of Christmas; but many of the traditions of this observance were assimilated and remain to this day a part of the observance of Christmas. Other nations, the Scandinavians, Germans, French, English and others, have left their mark . . . as well (pp. 804, 805).

Concerning these ancient elements, The Christian Encyclopedia says:

Various symbolic elements of the pagan celebration, such as the lighting of candles, evergreen decorations, and the giving of gifts, were adapted to Christian signification. Later as Christianity spread into northern Europe, the Celtic, Teutonic, and Slavic winter festivals contributed holly, mistletoe, the Christmas tree, bonfires, and similar items.

Finally, Unger’s Bible Dictionary adds:

The giving of presents was a Roman custom; while the yule tree and yule log are remnants of old Teutonic nature worship. Gradually the festival sank into mere revelry . . . . The custom was forbidden by an act of parliament in 1555; And the reformation brought in a refinement in the celebration of Christmas by emphasizing it Christian elements.

But what about passages like Jeremiah 10? Some believe this condemns the celebration of Christmas and especially the use of the Christmas tree. Is Jeremiah telling us to avoid the customs of the nations? No. Jeremiah 10 is a denunciation of the making and worship of idols and not the decoration of evergreen trees in the home.

This passage is not a categorical denial of all the customs of the nations. It is only a command to avoid those customs that are contrary to the revelation of God to Israel. There were many customs that Israel and the nations had in common that were not wrong.
This passage in Jeremiah and others like it in Isaiah had to do with idolatry. First, Jeremiah warns against astrological worship–the worship of the sun, moon, and the stars. Second, he warns against going into the forest to cut down trees to be carved into an idol in some form whether human or animal, and then worshipped and prayed to for guidance, for protection, and blessing (cf. Isa. 44:14-17).
Some have tried to tie the reference to the green tree in Jeremiah 3:6, 13 to the reference in 10:3f to further justify condemnation of the Christmas tree, but this refers to the idolatrous groves of trees used as a place for idol worship and revelry.

bible.org/page.php?page_id=2561
 
Hisalone said:
Christianity Today is respected so stop erecting straw men.
However about the best source on line is this
Gradually a number of prevailing practices of the nations into which Christianity came were assimilated and were combined with the religious ceremonies surrounding Christmas. The assimilation of such practices generally represented efforts by Christians to transform or absorb otherwise pagan practices.

The Feast of Saturnalia in early Rome, for example, was celebrated for 7 days from the 17th to the 24th of December and was marked by a spirit of merriment, gift giving to children and other forms of entertainment. Gradually, early Christians replaced the pagan feast with the celebration of Christmas; but many of the traditions of this observance were assimilated and remain to this day a part of the observance of Christmas. Other nations, the Scandinavians, Germans, French, English and others, have left their mark . . . as well (pp. 804, 805).

Concerning these ancient elements, The Christian Encyclopedia says:

Various symbolic elements of the pagan celebration, such as the lighting of candles, evergreen decorations, and the giving of gifts, were adapted to Christian signification. Later as Christianity spread into northern Europe, the Celtic, Teutonic, and Slavic winter festivals contributed holly, mistletoe, the Christmas tree, bonfires, and similar items.

Finally, Unger’s Bible Dictionary adds:

The giving of presents was a Roman custom; while the yule tree and yule log are remnants of old Teutonic nature worship. Gradually the festival sank into mere revelry . . . . The custom was forbidden by an act of parliament in 1555; And the reformation brought in a refinement in the celebration of Christmas by emphasizing it Christian elements.

But what about passages like Jeremiah 10? Some believe this condemns the celebration of Christmas and especially the use of the Christmas tree. Is Jeremiah telling us to avoid the customs of the nations? No. Jeremiah 10 is a denunciation of the making and worship of idols and not the decoration of evergreen trees in the home.

This passage is not a categorical denial of all the customs of the nations. It is only a command to avoid those customs that are contrary to the revelation of God to Israel. There were many customs that Israel and the nations had in common that were not wrong.
This passage in Jeremiah and others like it in Isaiah had to do with idolatry. First, Jeremiah warns against astrological worship–the worship of the sun, moon, and the stars. Second, he warns against going into the forest to cut down trees to be carved into an idol in some form whether human or animal, and then worshipped and prayed to for guidance, for protection, and blessing (cf. Isa. 44:14-17).
Some have tried to tie the reference to the green tree in Jeremiah 3:6, 13 to the reference in 10:3f to further justify condemnation of the Christmas tree, but this refers to the idolatrous groves of trees used as a place for idol worship and revelry.

bible.org/page.php?page_id=2561
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Ok. Now, what about the other points…
 
ralphinal said:
Yes, God told them to make Cherubs for the arc. He also had them make the snake on the pole. So, it is not a prohibition on statues. It is against worshiping them. If you would read something other than anti-CAtholic garbage, you would know that Catholics do not worship statues, either.

You still need to show me your church in the first 1400 years since Jesus’s Life. And I would love to see how you understand continuous revelation.
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It is a prohibition on erecting idols. You have made your statues idols, I have seen it. STOP COMPROMISING!
 
Hisalone said:
It is a prohibition on erecting idols. You have made your statues idols, I have seen it. STOP COMPROMISING!
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What about answering the other question he asked you? And please, stop saying we worship idols. Get it through your head that we don’t, yet you still seem to think that we do…unbelievable. 🤷
 
suupah said:
Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. 🤷 And it continues to this day.
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You are right suupah but I think you need to reflect the Church not as man made institution but Divine and therefore administered by humanity. We are all sinners but the body of Christ is not and is perfect in every ways. You have to be proud to belong to the true Church of Christ, I do. Actually, I find your thread disturbing because it usually is a thread of a pretender, disguising to be Catholic but then wishes to bash it. You could have asked the Apologetics first before you post this thread.
No matter what, if you really are a good Catholic, just follow your heart where the Word of God teaches you to fulfill righteousness because the salvation of your soul is yours alone to seek. The history of the Church is not of God’s doing but by humanity.
The “time of ignorance” had passed already, the new dawn will be full of understanding which will guide our Church in the right way.
It is your faith that matters to God, and with good works, obedience, you will be in the right path to the Kingdom of God.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
What about answering the other question he asked you? And please, stop saying we worship idols. Get it through your head that we don’t, yet you still seem to think that we do…unbelievable. 🤷
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But you do.
Stop Compromissing!

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images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/534889963_16ee9fc611.jpg%3Fv%3D0&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/iulia/534889963/in/set-72157600323038943/&usg=__oAtrEi7r7LDIYA6Bl-4YIOxryaY=&h=375&w=500&sz=183&hl=en&start=2&sig2=VQ_gWZWydx8oYRtjuvTKzw&tbnid=G5R39nNsKa43sM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=130&ei=lfklSd29F6SIedechQ0&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmary%2Bprocession%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG
 
 
I’m an Anglican, of the High species, Anglo-Catholic variety. I’m not confused by your dogma or doctrine. No RC I have ever known worshiped statues. Or icons. Anymore than do we Anglicans, including the icons and statues in my own home.

GKC
 
Hisalone said:
First oof you must realize that the word "church’ is not in the bible.
Then you must go back to the 1st century to see how the plumb line was laid and how far you guys have strayed.
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“And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it” Mt. 16:18

“Husbands love your wives, evan as Christ loved the church an handed hinself over for her” Eph 5:25

“He is the head of one body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead that in all things he himself mught be preeminent” Col. 1:18

“For the husband is of the wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body” Eph 5:23

“On that day, there broke out a severe persecution of the church in Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the countryside of Samaria and Judea, exceot the apostles” Acts 8:1

That is a small sample. There are more intances
 
First oof??? Is that an Americanism which I have missed? Never heard of it!
😛
 
suupah said:
Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. 🤷 And it continues to this day.
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You need to read MORE Catholic history, to get a better perspective.

Try the “Christendom” series by Warren H. Carroll.

Happy “light” reading! 🙂

:shamrock2:
 
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