Catholic history is disturbing

[benedictus2]

It epitomizes how it was handled.
Did you not read my entire post?

But I most certainly did. That is why I said do some research. The denial is everywhere.

The only reason it does not look as bad is because you have thousands of different churchess so the fall out is dispersed.

 

[benedictus2]

Reading comprehension is your firiend.
Read real slowly, it was not the abuse itself but the way the abuse was handled.

BTW when did two wrongs ever make one right?

No you’re right two wrongs don’t make a right but we are pointing out that before you tell us we have a splinter in our eye, check out that massive beam on your own. Oh sorry, of course you can’t check that. It is totally blinding your sight.

And another thing. The reason that the Catholic sexual scandals get much publicity in the papers is because funnily enough, this secular world expect a higher standard from the Catholics.

Strange that they don’t have much expectation from the Protestants. It’s like minister xyz commited this abuse but that is all par for the course

 

[benedictus2]

NO Im not Mormon. A born again spirit filled Christian just like the first century ones.

I hate to disabuse you of this erroneous misconception. But the first century Christians were Catholic.

For goodness sake, read Christian history.

 

[Cinette]

No you’re right two wrongs don’t make a right but we are pointing out that before you tell us we have a splinter in our eye, check out that massive beam on your own. Oh sorry, of course you can’t check that. It is totally blinding your sight.

And another thing. The reason that the Catholic sexual scandals get much publicity in the papers is because funnily enough, this secular world expect a higher standard from the Catholics.

Strange that they don’t have much expectation from the Protestants. It’s like minister xyz commited this abuse but that is all par for the course

You are so right Benedictus. I attended a Catholic boarding school (Dominican) but there were more Protestants. Every time a Catholic did something wrong, the Protestants would say "…and she is a* CATHOLIC!*

It is true, people expect more from us. I don’t say they should although I do expect more from a Priest. I think that the Priests who have abused their position and committed such terrible acts are committing such a HUGE MORTAL SIN! They will be severely punished. Imagine that they said Mass after committing these sins!!! Or should I say they were celebrating Mass while all the time they were abusing … It is so painful!"

When the news of the abuse broke out I really felt such pain. I couldn’t bear to hear or read about it. Now I am glad it has been exposed and pray that there will be more transparency in future.

 

[TigerFoxwoods]

Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history. And it continues to this day.

call it HUMAN history

all religions have corruptions since we’re imperfect people, nobodys been perfect since Jesus or Mary, Adam & Eve had that chance to stay perfect but gave it up

 

[Jennifer_G]

Just my :twocents: …

Catholic history is disturbing

So is Human history.

 

[benedictus2]

Then you must go back to the 1st century to see how the plumb line was laid and how far you guys have strayed.

Is it in your gene, to give generalizations and not back it up with facts and details?

What plumbline? What is the reference point you are talking about and in what way have we strayed?

You see I know what you are trying to do. If you can make fuzzy statements then you will not have to go into facts and details for proof. Why? It seems to me you are afraid of the truth.

How about you conveniently ignorring Matthew 16:18 hmm? Or is that not in your Bible?

 

[Cinette]

Is it in your gene, to give generalizations and not back it up with facts and details?

What plumbline? What is the reference point you are talking about and in what way have we strayed?

You see I know what you are trying to do. If you can make fuzzy statements then you will not have to go into facts and details for proof. Why? It seems to me you are afraid of the truth.

How about you conveniently ignorring Matthew 16:18 hmm? Or is that not in your Bible?

Benedictus - agents of the devil are to be found everywhere. But Jesus did tell us that His Church will never be overcome. So these people who spew hate and lies will always be around. Just ignore them and keep your eye on Jesus.

 

[CWBetts]

Benedictus - agents of the devil are to be found everywhere. But Jesus did tell us that His Church will never be overcome. So these people who spew hate and lies will always be around. Just ignore them and keep your eye on Jesus.

Good advice. We should expect the devil to do whatever he can to attack the Church

 

[benedictus2]

Benedictus - agents of the devil are to be found everywhere. But Jesus did tell us that His Church will never be overcome. So these people who spew hate and lies will always be around. Just ignore them and keep your eye on Jesus.

Good advice. We should expect the devil to do whatever he can to attack the Church

This is exactly what I said in another thread. Jesus promised to preserve His Church but He did not say that he will stop the devil from giving it a good try.

I suppose this is all to show that in the end He will triumph.

And through the centuries we have witness it come through against all odds. He does raises Saints for the times.

St Francis of Assisi, St Catherine of Sienna, St Ignatius, Sts Theresa of Avila and Lisseux, ad infinitum.

 

[patrick457]

this guy seems to have done the most research of all the ones I found on quick search.

sacrificium-laudis.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-lord-god-popenot-part-1.html

That reminds me. I need to finish the other parts…Rad just provided me a whole list I could feast on.

 

[benedictus2]

POPE NICHOLAS I: “I am all in all and above all, so that God Himself, and I, the Vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do . . . Wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God. WHAT CAN YOU MAKE ME BUT GOD? Again, if prelates of the Church be called and counted of Constantine for gods, I then, being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea, with the precepts of Christ.” Decret. Par Distinct 96 Ch. 7 Edit Lugd. 1661.

POPE GREGORY IX: “Wherefore, if those things that I do, be said to be done not of man, but of God; what can you make me but God?”

POPE INNOCENT III: “It was said to me in the prophet: “I have set you over nations and over kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down, to destroy, and to overthrow, to build and to plant”(Jer. 1:10)…Others were called to the role of caring, but only St. Peter was invested with the fullness of power [plenitudo potestatis]. See then what manner of servant this is, appointed over the household; he is indeed the vicar of Jesus Christ, the successor of St. Peter, the Christ of the Lord, the God of Pharaoh…the midpoint between God and man… who can judge all things and is judged by no one.”
-Consecration Sermon, c. 1200, see Rome Has Spoken; Granfield, Patrick, The Limits of the Papacy:Authority and Autonomy in the Church, NY:Crossroad, 1987; p. 32.

POPE ST PIUS V: "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth."Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”. Cardinal Cusa supports this statement.

FAMOUS BENEDICTINE CANONIST: “The pope can do all things God can do.” - Nicolaus de Tudeschis [1386-1445], “Commentaria” (lvi, 34)

Pretty damning if you ask me

Hey, I found the website you dragged this quotes from

orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=11778.0;wap2

And they got this in turn from Heresies Exposed by William C Irivne.

Hardly a credible website. and book.

I can’t even find William C Irvine anywhere.

 

[Hisalone]

Hey, I found the website you dragged this quotes from

orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=11778.0;wap2

And they got this in turn from Heresies Exposed by William C Irivne.

Hardly a credible website. and book.

I can’t even find William C Irvine anywhere.

What a balntantly dishonest post.

:tsktsk:
I hope you have plans for confession this week.

My post was a quote from another post and I provided a link which disputed most of what was in the post you show.
Very dishonest.

 

[patrick457]

I’m on the way in writing part two right now. Here’s a bit of a foretaste (concerning the one with the “Cities Petrus Bertanous”):

1.): “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.”
-Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous,” attributed to Pope Pius V.Notwithstanding the rather bad title (if this is meant to be Latin, why then does the English word “cities” appear?), this is another case of ‘hiding behind the curtain of obscurity’ as we are merely given the author’s surname of Barclay.

As for the identity of this mysterious ‘Petrus Bertanous’, this author personally tends to believe that this refers to a certain 16th-century Dominican named Petrus Bertanus Fanensis (aka Pietro Bertano; November 4, 1501, Nonantola-March 8, 1558, Rome), who once served as bishop (later cardinal) of Fano in Italy – the present-day diocese of Fano-Fossombrone-Cagli-Pergola – and who, among with other Dominicans, was apparently one of the leading prelates at the council of Trent and was an orator and advocate at that same council.

During the papacy of Pope Julius III (who reconvened the second period of the Tridentine council in 1551 after Pope Paul III died in November 10th 1549 at the behest of Emperor Charles V/Charles I of Spain), who entered into a league against the duke of Parma and Henry II of France (1547–59), the Emperor’s party requested that Julius admit eight people into the college of Cardinals. Four of them are to be named immediately and the other four are to be reserved in petto until conditions became more favorable; one of those whom they requested to be named immediately is Bertano, who was a member of the imperial party. Eventually he, along with thirteen others, were made cardinals on November 20, 1551, as a sign of reassurance to Charles (especially considering that all fourteen were favorable towards him).

While at first glance this connection may seem plausible (considering that both Pius V and Bertano were both Dominicans), we have to consider the following:

1.) This quote is attributed to Pope Pius V by “Bertanous” (sic). However, Michele Ghislieri O.P. only ascended to the Chair of Peter in January 7, 1566, about eight years after Pietro Bertano died. How could someone who is not then a pope make a statement about the papacy, much less someone who is dead?

2.) Considering that at the time Fra Pietro is still alive, Fra Michele still does not have the power of pronouncing ex cathedra statements, are there chances that his statement (let’s suppose for a moment that his “words” are true and are either not a misquote, mistranslation, or just flat-out made up) are actually reflective of official Church teaching?
3.) Are there any more reliable and independent sources for this quote, if any, aside from this rather obscure (and badly-titled) one?

Some sources for this ‘quote’ add the following phrase: “Cardinal Cusa (i.e. Nicholas of Kues)* supports this statement.*” Now, are there any contents from Cardinal Nicholas’ work which support this quote? Here is a chronological listing of Nicholas of Cusa’s works. If anyone can point out a paragraph or a sentence in his works (if you have them) which says very much the same thing as above (preferably the original Latin included), I’ll be glad to put that up.

 

[benedictus2]

What a balntantly dishonest post.

:tsktsk:
I hope you have plans for confession this week.

My post was a quote from another post and I provided a link which disputed most of what was in the post you show.
Very dishonest.

Hardly dishonest. Sorry but I missed the post with your link so I googled the phrases from your post until I came up with this one which have your post I think verbatim.

Actually there was another site I found but that one was not complete.

So, nothing to confess:heaven:

 

[benedictus2]

What a balntantly dishonest post.

:tsktsk:
I hope you have plans for confession this week.

My post was a quote from another post and I provided a link which disputed most of what was in the post you show.
Very dishonest.

Is the one below the link you are talking about?

this guy seems to have done the most research of all the ones I found on quick search.

sacrificium-laudis.blogspot.com/2008/09/our-lord-god-popenot-part-1.html

So let me ask you, if you could find that with a quick research, why did you bother posting the original?

Although I must say, now I come to think of it, I thank you for that. I now know the extent to which some protestants would lie just to support their view.

Who is the father of lies again?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Hisalone, the first Christians were in fact Catholic…how do you not agree?

 

[389670]

Hisalone, the first Christians were in fact Catholic…how do you not agree?

The term catholic is not used in the bible. What do you mean by this term? roman catholic?

 

[389670]

Just my :twocents: …

So is Human history.

But the catholic church is supposed to be led by the Holy Spirit.

 

[rpp]

First we have this nonsensical post of dubious, at best, “quotes”.

POPE NICHOLAS I: “I am all in all and above all, so that God Himself, and I, the Vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do . . . Wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God. WHAT CAN YOU MAKE ME BUT GOD? Again, if prelates of the Church be called and counted of Constantine for gods, I then, being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea, with the precepts of Christ.” Decret. Par Distinct 96 Ch. 7 Edit Lugd. 1661.

POPE GREGORY IX: “Wherefore, if those things that I do, be said to be done not of man, but of God; what can you make me but God?”

POPE INNOCENT III: “It was said to me in the prophet: “I have set you over nations and over kingdoms, to pluck up and to break down, to destroy, and to overthrow, to build and to plant”(Jer. 1:10)…Others were called to the role of caring, but only St. Peter was invested with the fullness of power [plenitudo potestatis]. See then what manner of servant this is, appointed over the household; he is indeed the vicar of Jesus Christ, the successor of St. Peter, the Christ of the Lord, the God of Pharaoh…the midpoint between God and man… who can judge all things and is judged by no one.”
-Consecration Sermon, c. 1200, see Rome Has Spoken; Granfield, Patrick, The Limits of the Papacy:Authority and Autonomy in the Church, NY:Crossroad, 1987; p. 32.

POPE ST PIUS V: "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth."Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”. Cardinal Cusa supports this statement.

FAMOUS BENEDICTINE CANONIST: “The pope can do all things God can do.” - Nicolaus de Tudeschis [1386-1445], “Commentaria” (lvi, 34)

Pretty damning if you ask me

Then we have someone with many more brain cells do a fairly routine search.

Hey, I found the website you dragged this quotes from

orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=11778.0;wap2

And they got this in turn from Heresies Exposed by William C Irivne.

Hardly a credible website. and book.

I can’t even find William C Irvine anywhere.

And his diligence in trying to maintain the truth is met with this personal attack.

What a balntantly dishonest post.

:tsktsk:
I hope you have plans for confession this week.

My post was a quote from another post and I provided a link which disputed most of what was in the post you show.
Very dishonest.

It appears that Hisalone is an appropriate user name; after all, between these two, Hisalone are the only false statements.

Hisalone, aside from posting conflated and invented “quotes”, it is extremely un-Christian to attack people. You owe benedictus2 an apology.

When you have to use false "information and invent fact to make your point, do you have a point worth making?