Catholic history is disturbing

[benedictus2]

Each of us are going to be judged differently, for some, Just having faith & belief In Jesus & That he is the redeemer will be enuff

And who says? This is your opinon. Not quite what Christ said.

It is those who DO THE WILL OF THE FATHER, not those who call Him, Lord, Lord.

 

[Peter_J]

Hi all,

I didn’t check this thread yesterday. Then when I checked it today, I discovered there were a metric ton of new posts to read. So sorry if some of my responses seem late …

I should have been more clear. There was never any hope for unbaptized infants but now there is.

Yes, Catholics were, at times, wrong about that. That’s not the real issue. The real issue, I would say, is when Catholics – no, when anybody – realize that they’ve been wrong, do they have the humility to admit it, or do they try to cover it up?

 

[Peter_J]

Ok OK! Sorry but you did leave out works so I thought you meant faith…alone. This is what you said

“…when I tell them they are saved by faith they look at me like I have a third eye growing out of my forehead.”

Sorry!:imsorry: :imsorry: :imsorry:

You shouldn’t feel too bad about that, Cinette. After all, even the reformers (who were presumably a lot smarter than you or me) read Romans 3:28, “man is justified by faith”, and concluded that Paul meant “by faith alone”.

 

[Peter_J]

Cinette,

The more I think about it the more disgusted I become,

How could traditional Catholics spread such blatant lies.

They even gave the paragraph numbers in Denzinger’s work for these comments attributed to Pope Pius IX. But Dave says he has this book and they are lying. There is nothing there.

I am really shocked. I apologize again to the Forum members for presenting these lies. I have been as much a victim of these traditional Catholics as anyone else.

I agree that it would have been better if you had check your sources more carefully before posting. But on the other hand, I wouldn’t automatically conclude that those “traditional Catholics” were lying, just because someone on this forum said that they were. As far as I can see, neither side has proved their claim.

 

[Cinette]

You shouldn’t feel too bad about that, Cinette. After all, even the reformers (who were presumably a lot smarter than you or me) read Romans 3:28, “man is justified by faith”, and concluded that Paul meant “by faith alone”.

Yes, I know, Luther decided to add the word “alone” in his translation and with that little 5 letter word caused so much argument and polemic!

 

[Methodi]

Oh ya, just like the murderers and gang members who kill but wear their crosses around their necks…but because they have faith…alone.

To whom much is given, much is expected, to whom little is given little is expected, there have been many death bed conversions. God loves us all , there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. A lot of them gang members though they are terrible, never had a chance

 

[Cinette]

It is true that we Catholics were never encouraged to read the Bible before Vatican II.

Firstly for the first 1400 years there was no printing press. In any case when you consider all the daily readings (more on Sunday) we pretty much cover practically the entire bible in 3 years. The readings usually tie up with one another. The first reading which is usually from the OT and the Gospel Reading which is obviously from the NT. Later when Bibles were available (which is a Catholic book by the way) it was felt that there was no need to encourage private readings because of mis-interpretations. Look at the millions of interpretations among Protestants. Still, I do not agree with this because when we read the bible we can always go to the Catechism and other reference books for assistance. Anyway, that is why we were not encouraged to read the Bible - because of interpretations. Nowadays we have bibles with explanations in the margins etc.

Secondly, the priest has no choice but to preach on the readings set in our Missels on Sundays. Priests don’t pick and choose what they like - they preach on the readings of the day. I attend daily Mass and the the priest always makes a comment on the readings (no time for preaching during the week). So if we pay attention we do get lots of teaching.

Thirdly, what other church has the resources of the CC? What other church has a catechism? We have a mountain of books and, of course, THE book of books, the Bible, was written and compiled by Catholics.

Fourthly, we have the Vatican with a library and archives which cover the history of the Church going back to the Apostles.

Fifth - we have our Pope, the successor of Peter.

We also have a whole lot of sinners, some doing their best to live their Faith and to help others attain salvation.

We have each other. We are also priests and we do share and help one another and if we don’t, then we should.

We can but try.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

To whom much is given, much is expected, to whom little is given little is expected, there have been many death bed conversions. God loves us all , there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. A lot of them gang members though they are terrible, never had a chance

Most are from other countries. They come here and kill Americans or there own. I know, I live right near a neighborhood that in order for you to join, you must kill someone for the heck of it…oh…but they never had a chance…

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

To whom much is given, much is expected, to whom little is given little is expected, there have been many death bed conversions. God loves us all , there is no sin that cannot be forgiven. A lot of them gang members though they are terrible, never had a chance

Point here is that someone here said you can just have faith alone. My point was, gang members have faith alone, yet kill. Are they going to heaven? I doubt it.

 

[Cinette]

Oh, and I forgot, we also have our separated brothers and sisters with whom we hope to be united one day.

We love them also for their ferver and for what they do for us - they keep us on our toes. :hug1: :hug3:

 

[benedictus2]

The reformers judged Jesus’ church and left it.
How do you reform something by leaving it?

What blessed rain on parched land. Clear, rational thinking!:clapping:

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Oh, and I forgot, we also have our separated brothers and sisters with whom we hope to be united one day.

We love them also for their ferver and for what they do for us - they keep us on our toes. :hug1: :hug3:

Unfortunately, it’ll never happen…just speaking the truth.

 

[benedictus2]

We love them also for their ferver and for what they do for us - they keep us on our toes. :hug1: :hug3:

Totally agree with that. If it weren’t for a protestant friend and for their challenging posts, I probably would not have read up as much on my faith.

Now I know with even more certainty that she is Christ’s True Church.

For that I am really thankful.

God does write straight with crooked lines.

 

[Cinette]

Point here is that someone here said you can just have faith alone. My point was, gang members have faith alone, yet kill. Are they going to heaven? I doubt it.

Haven’t you people who say “Faith alone” and go to Church on Sundays and then on Monday, Tuesday…Friday, Saturday cheat on their spouses?

They cheat on others as well but they are going to heaven. Why? Because they believe that Jesus is Lord and Saviour!!!

Now you tell me!

 

[benedictus2]

Unfortunately, it’ll never happen…just speaking the truth.

And I agree with that one too. Although, God does make miracles. I look at the number of wonderful converts from protestantism who are now themselves on the forefront of Catholic apologetics. So I suppose, even though I have doubts, I am still hopeful.

Their witness becomes even more compelling, having been there and done that.

 

[Methodi]

Most are from other countries. They come here and kill Americans or there own. I know, I live right near a neighborhood that in order for you to join, you must kill someone for the heck of it…oh…but they never had a chance…

Hey, this is a tough lousy world, there is a lot of terrible goings on all over this world, The Lord still loves us no matter what. I also think the way the world is, is as it should be.I am not discounting God, but how come we pray & pray for things to change in this world but it never does

 

[benedictus2]

Haven’t you people who say “Faith alone” and go to Church on Sundays and then on Monday, Tuesday…Friday, Saturday cheat on their spouses?

They cheat on others as well but they are going to heaven. Why? Because they believe that Jesus is Lord and Saviour!!!

Now you tell me!

I’m a bit confused. I think you are both arguing from the same point on this one.

 

[Cinette]

And I agree with that one too. Although, God does make miracles. I look at the number of wonderful converts from protestantism who are now themselves on the forefront of Catholic apologetics. So I suppose, even though I have doubts, I am still hopeful.

Their witness becomes even more compelling, having been there and done that.

Anybody watch The Journey Home on EWTN? It is a weekly programme that has been going strong for over 11 years. Each week Marcus Grodi interviews a convert or a revert. This is something Sometimes he also has a Roundtable discussion with three or four converts from Lutherism, Methodists, Atheist (ex) Pentacostals, Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, and so on. Powerful stuff and amazing. What fantastic witnesses!

These converts and reverts will take over the Catholic Church one of these days! (probably will too!!) The are so precious!

Here in South Africa we get the programme on a Tuesday at 2am and then again in the evening. I can’t wait so I wake up at 2 to watch (I also record).

I am forever grateful for the witness of EWTN. They also have other amazing programmes and teachings.

 

[Methodi]

God knows man is weak, He didnt create man to sit & twiddle his thumbs, & wear a halo. He knew man needed a savior because of mans behavior thats why through faith we are saved.Of course we must try to do the right things, if we are informed. A Catholic priest once told me ignorance is Bliss! What U dont know is wrong, U are not bound by. Thats why I say to whom much is given , much is expected, etc. Dont You Know there is great joy in heaven over one sinner who repents

 

[benedictus2]

Hey, this is a tough lousy world, there is a lot of terrible goings on all over this world, The Lord still loves us no matter what. I also think the way the world is, is as it should be.I am not discounting God, but how come we pray & pray for things to change in this world but it never does

Things do change. It all happens in God’s time. We need to trust that He is in charge. We do our piddly bIt and that is all expected of us.

I get worried when this question gets asked because I think that is why the reformation happened. They probably thought with all these ills praying is not doing anything so I better do something about it.

God knows what He’s on about. We pray. We work (or try to) help bring about His kingdom and that is all. The rest is God’s domain. His Love shines through, even though it may seem dark still.