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benedictus2
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*I am sure that you both love our beautiful Church as I do and as many others do. So guys and girls group hug:grouphug: but leave some rooms as others might want to squeeze in laterI love my church too.
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Cinette
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I understand you Methodi. When you told that story about your ex-Priest neighbour I felt a sadness come over me. I thought about him and cast my mind back to when he decided to dedicate his life to God and the Church, of the years he spent in seminary and now…empty. He obviously didn’t think so but I wonder what went thru his mind in his last moments?
Once a priest, always a priest.
Very sad indeed.
I have issues with 3 priests but I keep loving them. I know they have reached others in a very special way. So I pray for them.
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Cinette
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Christ doesn’t give them reigh at all. He allows things to unfold. He has given us the grace and the Faith to decide how to fight Satan.It was all predicted that Satan would come into the churches and start from the very top. I just wish Christ wouldn’t give him so much reign.
Sometimes as you draw closer to God that is when Satan attacks. In many different ways.
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benedictus2
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Hey OTCA, read “Why does God permit Evil” by Dom Bruno Webb. It is really excelent and will satisfactorily answer the questions inherent in your above post. It is so hopefilled. I have not read any book that integrated all aspects of our faith with the economy of salvation quite like this one. And it is a tiny book too.It was all predicted that Satan would come into the churches and start from the very top. I just wish Christ wouldn’t give him so much reign.
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OneTrueCathApos
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I will, I think I saw this book at my Catholic store here, but I didn’t get it. Now I will. Thanks.Hey OTCA, read “Why does God permit Evil” by Dom Bruno Webb. It is really excelent and will satisfactorily answer the questions inherent in your above post. It is so hopefilled. I have not read any book that integrated all aspects of our faith with the economy of salvation quite like this one. And it is a tiny book too.
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Cinette
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Hey Benedictus - what about this passage - also from Hebrews:
*Hebrew 6:4-6
"For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. "
*Was this not in answer to Symux??? forgotten the name and can’t check from here!!
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cazayoux
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cool!!Hey Benedictus - what about this passage - also from Hebrews:
*Hebrew 6:4-6
"For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt. "
I actually read this very section in Hebrews this morning.
I love when that happens.
michel
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Cinette
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Yes, and isn’t that the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit?
There is another scripture elsewhere on this I think.
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ron77nyc
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Is this the one?Yes, and isn’t that the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit?
There is another scripture elsewhere on this I think.
Luke 12:10 5 Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
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jesse_james
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Ephesians ch: 2
Personally, this is my favourite one in support of it. Surely we are saved by grace, but once saved, we will no longer want to sin out of love for God? And surely, we can whole-heartedly repent of sin and attain forgive through the blood Jesus shed for us?
Just my opinion, I don’t expect a Catholic to agree. But when people imply that Protestants act like we can just sin whenever we want and get away with it because of grace is just silly.
I certainly don’t think that way. Doing that undermines the true nature of repentance.
Sorry, I was just reading previous pages about being saved by works and wanted to throw some balance into the argument. I know there are many scriptures to contradict Sola Fide and also that support Sola Fide.
Personally, this is my favourite one in support of it. Surely we are saved by grace, but once saved, we will no longer want to sin out of love for God? And surely, we can whole-heartedly repent of sin and attain forgive through the blood Jesus shed for us?
Just my opinion, I don’t expect a Catholic to agree. But when people imply that Protestants act like we can just sin whenever we want and get away with it because of grace is just silly.
I certainly don’t think that way. Doing that undermines the true nature of repentance.
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Cinette
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Thanks Ron! I note that down.
I remembrer reading somewhere that the unforgivable sin is that contained in Hebrews. ??? Anyone can help here??
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rikkk1958
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Predictions? I don’t know about that. If we just look around and try to analyze the world we live in, humans are just getting astray.It was all predicted that Satan would come into the churches and start from the very top. I just wish Christ wouldn’t give him so much reign.
The very top to become a Satanist is almost impossible to believe. The Church is guided as much as possible with the help of the Holy Spirit. One way for humans to return to the fold of the Church is to have a leadership on the top and the Bishops will most likely just do that, praying and hoping to choose the best fit for the post. It will no longer possible therefore for Satan to influence that person.
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ron77nyc
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It was Adam & Eve who opened the door for satan. God could do away with satan but He doesn’t. God is actually using satan for His own purposes. If we knew the whole plan then satan would know it too and use that information to his advantage. God is not surprised at any of this. He knows how it will end.
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ron77nyc
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I’m a Catholic who agrees with you…here’s why. Just a hypothetical situation: If a person sins his entire life and repents immediately before his death because he has finally understood the gospel, that person will be saved by his faith and not anything he has done. If another does the opposite: he lives his whole life doing good deeds to earn a reward in the next life but rejects belief in Jesus and the gospel message, that person will not be saved according to biblical teaching and Catholic teaching.
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Peter_J
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Ephesians ch: 2
And by the way, that was reaffirmed recently by the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification …
“Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping us for and calling us to good works.”
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Cinette
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Hi Jesse - You are smart. Don’t you want to join us? We could do with more like you!
Seriously you would be surprised how many Protestants say this. Of course it is silly. I knew a guy who was cheating on his wife in the most blatant way. The wife would come to the business place in the morning and he would drive up with his girlfriend who was also working there!!! On top of tht he behaved in a shameful way and caused his partner (who had founded the company) to lose his entire retirement. All the while he was going to Church and telling everybody that all you need to do to be a Christian and achieve salvation is to declare that Jesus is your Lord and Saviour. His wife was always saying “I know so and so is not saved”
He eventually went back to his wife because they were married in community of property and he would have had to divide his fortune in half!!! Fine Christian.
Of course, we Catholics are too smart to think all Protestants think like that but you would be surprised how many do!
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cazayoux
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I also agree with you.
I have a questions for you, though, that might shed light on the difference in theology.
If a saved person DOES sin, is he/she still saved?
If a saved person DOES sin, was that person really saved in the first place?
I get different answers from different non-Catholic Christians.
I’m curious about your thoughts.
michel
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jesse_james
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Thanks for the nice replies, people.
Different Protestants will have different views on repentance. Believe it or not, I’ve been told by one Protestant that “repentance is just a Catholic thing”; which is appalling. To me, that says " I know I sin but have no intention of ever changing. I can’t help it and it’s not a big deal". Rubbish. Sin is what separates man from God and results in spiritual death, how is that not a big deal? Shouldn’t we be praying to avoid sin and become closer to God?
Most of us, however, believe repentance is real and it demonstrates a persons willingness to change and grow in the grace of God. One aspect that Protestants have difficulty coming to terms with is the Catholic view of Jesus’ sacrifice and consequently, the forgiveness we receive because of it.
Having to “do things” (as some say) in order to get into heaven undermines the nature of Jesus’ sacrifice because it renders it incomplete. Shouldn’t His perfect sacrifice be enough to attain forgiveness? If someone could help me on that question I’d be very grateful.
Of course, although I still believe you’re obliged to acknowledge the fact you have sinned and pray for forgiveness. Why would God forgive us if we don’t ask? Doesn’t make sense. I also believe you should pray that the Holy Spirit will work within you to avoid sinning in the future.
Logic would suggest yes. It is virtually impossible not to sin at some point in our lives–regardless of who you are and what church you happen to follow. Personally, I don’t think a person is saved without ever (truly) repenting though; that’s denial of God’s grace and consequently, denial of the Holy Spirit.
Different Protestants will have different views on repentance. Believe it or not, I’ve been told by one Protestant that “repentance is just a Catholic thing”; which is appalling. To me, that says " I know I sin but have no intention of ever changing. I can’t help it and it’s not a big deal". Rubbish. Sin is what separates man from God and results in spiritual death, how is that not a big deal? Shouldn’t we be praying to avoid sin and become closer to God?
Most of us, however, believe repentance is real and it demonstrates a persons willingness to change and grow in the grace of God. One aspect that Protestants have difficulty coming to terms with is the Catholic view of Jesus’ sacrifice and consequently, the forgiveness we receive because of it.
Having to “do things” (as some say) in order to get into heaven undermines the nature of Jesus’ sacrifice because it renders it incomplete. Shouldn’t His perfect sacrifice be enough to attain forgiveness? If someone could help me on that question I’d be very grateful.
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notsmart
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Hi again Cinette!
On your post number 630, you sought bible verses.
On my reply to your request, (number 633) I offered 2 possible off the top of my head possibilities.
1 John 2:19
Matt 13:58
You tell me in your reply to my post, that in my first example, its talking about the anti-christ (to which I do not disagree)
But, you fail to mention anything about Matt 13:58.
Here was your original request:
You are wrong here. There is a passage in the bible where it says that if you have been exposed to the truth and you turn your back on the truth …. I must find it for you - perhaps someone on this thread can also assist.
You must tell me if the Anti Christ, was not once one of us.
On your post number 630, you sought bible verses.
On my reply to your request, (number 633) I offered 2 possible off the top of my head possibilities.
1 John 2:19
Matt 13:58
You tell me in your reply to my post, that in my first example, its talking about the anti-christ (to which I do not disagree)
But, you fail to mention anything about Matt 13:58.
Here was your original request:
You are wrong here. There is a passage in the bible where it says that if you have been exposed to the truth and you turn your back on the truth …. I must find it for you - perhaps someone on this thread can also assist.
You must tell me if the Anti Christ, was not once one of us.
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Hisalone
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Has anyone else delved into Catholic history and found the utter corruption and moral depravity shocking? I find it hard to really be proud of my Catholic roots when there is sooooooo much corruption in it. I wish it was one or two isolated incidences but corruption and lust for power seem to pervade every second of the Church’s history.And it continues to this day.
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