Catholic Husband and marital relations

[hannajomar]

May be you could ask him exactly where he got this idea to “control his fleshy lusts” by not initiating intimacy. If he read it somewhere, may be ask him if you could read it too. Then at least you could understand where he is coming from and go from there. You do have the right to press him on this and insist on at least a sincere discussion with you. I hope you come back and let us know how you guys are doing.

 

[mamaslo]

I wonder if those of you who have suggested self mortification aren’t on to something. That fits my husband’s personality. He reads alot about the saints and he admires them deeply. It is quite possible that he feels like this is the right thing to do, although I don’t.
At any rate, I hope to solve our mystery, it is very confusing and quite honestly stressful. His inability to express what he is thinking makes it that much more worse.

I have read a lot of things from the saints, and while excellent in formation, they usually are not married. That does confuse a person. Because there is so much in there that is amazing and truthful. The people who wrote many of the writings we read are celebate. So any though of sexual intimacy for them would be wrong.

If your husband is thinking about you in anything less that as a whole person…and as your relations as a prayer, then he may be struggling with lust. We are not supposed to lust after our spouses…but regard them highly as a whole person. Sex is a prayer where we join and reach upward and God descends down and we are three in one.

So…it is church teaching that maybe he is in the process of processing. He is trying to have control over wrong thoughts of you and wants to integrate/master his sexuality better.

 

[R_C]

I have read a lot of things from the saints, and while excellent in formation, they usually are not married. That does confuse a person. Because there is so much in there that is amazing and truthful. The people who wrote many of the writings we read are celebate. So any though of sexual intimacy for them would be wrong.

What?

This is incorrect. A person who takes a vow of celibacy or a vow of chastity does not consider sexual intimacy wrong.

 

[thewanderer]

What?

This is incorrect. A person who takes a vow of celibacy or a vow of chastity does not consider sexual intimacy wrong.

I think she meant that it would be wrong for them to think about sex, or think about having sex… not that sex itself would be thought of as wrong, but it would be thought of as wrong for the person who took a vow of celibacy.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

Has he changed schedules at all recently? After having to put in extra hours at one point during our most recent pregnancy I went nearly two weeks without even trying to get near my wife, which is unheard of for us even when she’s not pregnant.

Were there any issues during your last delivery? I know several guys who either saw something that upset them during one of their wives’ deliveries, or just watched her first delivery and never wanted to touch her again. For some of them it started immediately. For a couple it wasn’t until she got pregnant again. One guy, the last time I talked to him, hadn’t had sex with his wife in over 3 years simply because he’d watched the delivery and now had huge hangups about her body and sex in general.

I also know a few guys who, out of the blue, started having problems with the idea of sex during pregnancy. None of them could explain why it happened because it never bothered them prior to that. They were either worried about harming the baby or turned off by either their wife’s appearance or just the idea of sex with a pregnant woman.

I wish I had some advice to offer on what to do about it, but I never found out if any of the guys I knew sought any sort of help or counseling for it. It’s also not something I’ve ever personally had a problem with, so I can’t offer advice from that perspective, either.

 

[R_C]

I think she meant that it would be wrong for them to think about sex, or think about having sex… not that sex itself would be thought of as wrong, but it would be thought of as wrong for the person who took a vow of celibacy.

Blessed John Paul II is the most recent example of a great theologian who understood human sexuality and taught it very well in his lectures on what is now known as theology of the body.

And there is a mystical aspect into sexuality that is well-understood (well, to some extent) by those who take a vow of celibacy or chastity, and that leads them to understand the vocation to married life and the sexual act very well.

 

[LisaAnnC]

I am not sure how old you husband is, but if he is 40ish or older he could be having ED. My husband after 22 years of marriage seem to loose all interest in marital relations and that went on for over a year. But finally he was diagnosed with pituatary problem and now uses Testosterone shots. It has put him back to the loving husband he was. Its hard for some men to face that type of problem, but I would lovingly tell him to go have a physical. and explain this is not an uncommon problem and there is nothing to be embarrassed about.

 

[Lucky7]

Were there any issues during your last delivery? I know several guys who either saw something that upset them during one of their wives’ deliveries, or just watched her first delivery and never wanted to touch her again. For some of them it started immediately. For a couple it wasn’t until she got pregnant again. One guy, the last time I talked to him, hadn’t had sex with his wife in over 3 years simply because he’d watched the delivery and now had huge hangups about her body and sex in general.

I also know a few guys who, out of the blue, started having problems with the idea of sex during pregnancy. None of them could explain why it happened because it never bothered them prior to that. They were either worried about harming the baby or turned off by either their wife’s appearance or just the idea of sex with a pregnant woman.

All of this is so very disturbing to me.

 

[The_Bucket]

Has he changed schedules at all recently? After having to put in extra hours at one point during our most recent pregnancy I went nearly two weeks without even trying to get near my wife, which is unheard of for us even when she’s not pregnant.

Were there any issues during your last delivery? I know several guys who either saw something that upset them during one of their wives’ deliveries, or just watched her first delivery and never wanted to touch her again. For some of them it started immediately. For a couple it wasn’t until she got pregnant again. One guy, the last time I talked to him, hadn’t had sex with his wife in over 3 years simply because he’d watched the delivery and now had huge hangups about her body and sex in general.

I also know a few guys who, out of the blue, started having problems with the idea of sex during pregnancy. None of them could explain why it happened because it never bothered them prior to that. They were either worried about harming the baby or turned off by either their wife’s appearance or just the idea of sex with a pregnant woman.

I wish I had some advice to offer on what to do about it, but I never found out if any of the guys I knew sought any sort of help or counseling for it. It’s also not something I’ve ever personally had a problem with, so I can’t offer advice from that perspective, either.

Dudes have some problems then. I was instructed to stay away from looking at the surgical area when my wife had a c-section, but I cheated a bit. I’m sure it was because they didn’t want to risk a big guy like me potentially fainting at the sight of blood. Who would want to drag me out of an OR when they need to do surgery?!

Anyway, I saw half of the deal that was going on and even the placenta sitting there in a basin. Oh man, human anatomy! How will I ever find my wife attractive again? Oh right, because she’s smoking hot.

 

[silicasandra]

Lucky7:

All of this is so very disturbing to me.

Me too.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[Sewandcook]

Thank you again everybody for your responses. Last night I ended up sharing my post with my husband. We have an honest relationship. Most of our communications issues are caused by my husband’s difficultly in expressing how he feels. He simply can’t find the words. He felt that I should post our discussion to help anybody else who has had this struggle.
Anyway he had several issues, one being his guilt in possibly hurting the baby, this is a minor concern, but exist nevertheless. The other issue is he wants to learn to control his sexual desires. This stems from my attitude of having more children. I am close to 40. I am exhausted from the demands of motherhood, life, work, etc… I love my children and husband devoutly, and feel that it is almost impossible to take on anymore. My husband only wants to use NFP. I respect that and have NO intentions of asking anything else of him. On the other hand I feel like NFP is unreliable, totally dependent on me (like everything else), and simply frustrating. My husband is hurt by my attitude about the whole issue. Because NFP has been unsuccessful for us my husband felt he should handle this by training himself not to have relations. My issue is that I feel limited by two choices both of which are not good. I can either continue with the whole NFP thing, which hasn’t worked so far and end up pregnant again, or have a marriage devoid of intimacy.
So in closing, this is my battle. It really saddens me because I have a wonderful marriage that I would NEVER give up. But our choices on marital relations seem to lead down two difficult, unforgiving paths. Really down and out!

 

[whm]

I can either continue with the whole NFP thing, which hasn’t worked so far and end up pregnant again, or have a marriage devoid of intimacy.
So in closing, this is my battle. It really saddens me because I have a wonderful marriage that I would NEVER give up. But our choices on marital relations seem to lead down two difficult, unforgiving paths. Really down and out!

I am sorry that you are having trouble with NFP. I am no expert on NFP, but did you show your charts to an NFP instructor? Perhaps you are not reading them correctly or would benefit from another type of NFP.

That being said, I understand your feelings(been in a continent marriage for 10 years, since age 30), but marriage is not only about sex. You can have a wonderful and intimate relationship with your husband without (or with less) sex. It appears that your husband is willing to abstain entirely out of concern for you, there certainly worse choices he could have made.

 

[R_C]

My issue is that I feel limited by two choices both of which are not good. I can either continue with the whole NFP thing, which hasn’t worked so far and end up pregnant again, or have a marriage devoid of intimacy.

In this context, they are not good according to your feelings, but they are good in God’s eyes. I invite you to learn more about the very profound reasons for which the Church does not allow anything beyond NFP. Anything else meant to take away the procreative end from the marital act would basically undo marriage and desecrate what is otherwise a most sacred union.

Now, it is a cross, no doubt about it. But you should not be exceedingly sad: first because you have a new baby coming And I now it’s hard, but that’s always a beautiful thing

Second, because you have a loving husband who listens to you and is very concerned about you, and trust me, that’s wonderful and rare. And I am sure he feels the same way about you.

Third: since you willfully take this cross upon your shoulders and not doing anything that greatly offends God, God is well-pleased, for you more closely resemble His beloved Son, as well as the Blessed Virgin.

Your story, albeit marked with plenty of sacrifice, moves my heart to tears of joy. You are blessed with a wonderful family and a wonderful faith, two very rare things. Do not be saddened exceedingly by worldly things…this life is so short…rejoice in your family and do not worry about tomorrow

 

[maryjk]

I am sorry that you are having trouble with NFP. I am no expert on NFP, but did you show your charts to an NFP instructor? Perhaps you are not reading them correctly or would benefit from another type of NFP.

I would second this opinion. I am sure there are people out there that can’t use NFP. But before you throw it out, make sure you are doing it right.

 

[CakeState]

NFP has been a struggle for my husband and me as well, and what we have been doing the past few years is only have sex when we want another baby. It is hard in some ways, but honestly it is drastically less stressful. We have taken the class, we’ve read the books, we’ve had instructors review our charts, but when you get right down to it, NFP can still be a major struggle and enough of a source of pain and confusion that never having sex is truly an easier option. You can have a happy enough marriage just being friends, you really can. Sex has not been a part of my marriage for so long I don’t notice its absence as much as I thought it would (the same way you crave sweets less and less over time the longer you go without eating them) and living this way shouldn’t be immediately tossed out as impossible. There are many, many other NFP couples who end up living like this and are making it work.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I’m really sad to see so many faithful Catholic couples giving up the gift of marital intimacy. I had thought NFP would prevent this, not encourage it…

 

[maryjk]

I’m really sad to see so many faithful Catholic couples giving up the gift of marital intimacy. I had thought NFP would prevent this, not encourage it…

I don’t know that there are “so many.” One has admitted to it and one is saying her husband is thinking about it.

CakeState has said that giving up is simply easier than NFP. :ehh:

Sorry, if someone thinks that to totally and completely abstain is easier than writing down signs and symptoms, maybe they are doing it right.

 

[CakeState]

I don’t know that there are “so many.” One has admitted to it and one is saying her husband is thinking about it.

CakeState has said that giving up is simply easier than NFP. :ehh:

Sorry, if someone thinks that to totally and completely abstain is easier than writing down signs and symptoms, maybe they are doing it right.

You’d be very surprised. I didn’t even realize this was a legitimate option until a few years ago when I tried seeking solutions to our NFP struggles and the impact it was having on our relationship. I found plenty of people who have chosen the same thing, and many more who don’t have sex for a year postpartum or for several years while going through menopause. Just because you don’t think people really do this or think that it’s strange doesn’t mean we are t out there. I’ve even had pm’s of support from people who have also decided abstaining permanently is less stressful than NFP. It’s common.

And it’s not the keeping track of symptoms that’s stressful. That’s the easy part. What’s difficult is when one sign is saying you have ovulated and another says you haven’t. It’s hearing instructors say you are fertile for weeks or months on end. It’s finding an instructor of a different method who says 6 months of abstinence at a time is not uncommon. It’s the months where you suddenly ovulate a week earlier than normal with little or no warning. It’s having a short luteal phase that only allows a day or two of sex after a full month of nothing. It’s knowing you can’t really take advantage of phase 1 because you sometimes ovulate very early and that if you have a method failure then, people will criticize you and say you should have known better than to not practice NFP conservatively (phase 3 only) because they’ve said the same harsh things to others. It’s knowing my second daughter would have been a genuine method failure if we hadn’t been happy to know she was conceived. It’s the stress and frustration of not knowing when or if an infertile phase is coming soon. It’s the anxiety and stress when you do finally have sex during what should be an infertile time because previous method failures or close calls tell you you can never really know for certain. It’s knowing health problems mean an unplanned pregnancy would be life threatening for mom because necessary meds would not have been started in time, and that all pregnancies would be potentially fatal to the baby due to blood incompatabilites. It’s the fear of losing more babies. It’s when the anxiety of knowing how high stakes an unplanned pregnancy would be gets to you despite your best efforts to stay positive and trust God and the method and you end up having fights you would never have had if you had just abstained. It’s being told ad nauseum that you must be a bad Christian because no one with enough faith should ever feel fear and anxiety, and therefore NFP can’t cause those feelings unless you are faithless.

If you stop having sex, you bypass all those problems. Not having sex isn’t easy, but the relief of not having the anxiety and stress hanging over you is worth it. Not everyone has that heavy weight on them because plenty do find NFP easy, but I hope you can find some understanding and sympathy for those who do.

 

[maryjk]

You’d be very surprised. I didn’t even realize this was a legitimate option until a few years ago when I tried seeking solutions to our NFP struggles and the impact it was having on our relationship. I found plenty of people who have chosen the same thing, and many more who don’t have sex for a year postpartum or for several years while going through menopause. Just because you don’t think people really do this or think that it’s strange doesn’t mean we are t out there. I’ve even had pm’s of support from people who have also decided abstaining permanently is less stressful than NFP. It’s common.

Prove it. Sorry, saying that “plenty of people” have chosen to do this doesn’t mean that plenty of people have.

This is not normal for a marriage.

 

[choose_to_love]

Whoa whoa whoa! Why on earth would this be “your battle” and not a battle for you both? Why is NFP “dependent on you”? You are in this together, right? If you have practiced it in such a way that it is all up to you, why don’t you change how you do it?

Second, in your initial post you said that hubby did not want to use BC, and in your most recent post state that he only wants to use NFP. Have you been practicing NFP up to this point? I was not clear on that. If you have been, prior suggestions about trying another method may be useful. Also, were you trained by an instructor, or learned it yourself?

Third, speaker-listener technique/“Fighting for your marriage” du.edu/psychology/people/markman.htm may be a different approach to try with communication issues, since it seems like your current method is not working optimally at least for this issue.