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fanatic1
Guest
I meet a lot of Catholics who believe in abortion even though they say that they personally would not have one
does this make sense?
does this make sense?
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karebear92
Guest
What do you mean by “make sense.” Does their reasoning make sense? Yes. Is their reasoning wrong? Yes. Basically they believe live and let live. While Catholics are called not to do that many still do. Take same-sex-marriage, for example, many Catholics support it, but that does not mean they are willing to partake in the service.
Their morality is wrong, but unfortunately it is consistent with many modern day beliefs. I wouldn’t say that they are hypocritical; just misled.
Their morality is wrong, but unfortunately it is consistent with many modern day beliefs. I wouldn’t say that they are hypocritical; just misled.
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Crdl2Grv
Guest
Technically, “Catholic hypocrisy” would be the exact opposite of what you’re describing: Catholics who don’t believe abortion should be legal but personally would have one.
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Edward_H
Guest
Well, as a Catholic, this might present you some good work to do. Befriending a few of these people for their temporal and their eternal good, and then slowly developing a natural and sincere riendship with them, where “religion” is not the center of your discussions, but your lives.
And slowly, 1 on 1, over time, given your charity, cheerfulness, and true friendship, God will give you opportunities to talk with them…and maybe one of these conversations can be on the subject of abortion. And this conversation won’t take place for some time in the future…but maybe a year away.
And in this eventual conversation you can propose a very well developed, charitably delivered proposal on why the Catholic Church believes what it does about abortion and the Gospel of Life, a life of generous giving and self-donating for the love of God, and others.
This will take a little bit of work and lots of prayer on your part…but this may be what God wants you to do.
You can learn in these forums…but your love will be done with these people, maybe just one or 2 of them.
Prayers for you in defending charitably the Gospel of Life, our obligation as confirmed Catholics.
And slowly, 1 on 1, over time, given your charity, cheerfulness, and true friendship, God will give you opportunities to talk with them…and maybe one of these conversations can be on the subject of abortion. And this conversation won’t take place for some time in the future…but maybe a year away.
And in this eventual conversation you can propose a very well developed, charitably delivered proposal on why the Catholic Church believes what it does about abortion and the Gospel of Life, a life of generous giving and self-donating for the love of God, and others.
This will take a little bit of work and lots of prayer on your part…but this may be what God wants you to do.
You can learn in these forums…but your love will be done with these people, maybe just one or 2 of them.
Prayers for you in defending charitably the Gospel of Life, our obligation as confirmed Catholics.
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Allegra
Guest
In this case, it’s more like “live and let die”.
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karebear92
Guest
Very true. I think you know what I mean though.
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Kristin234
Guest
Honestly, this does not just apply to Catholics. There are many Christians (Catholics and Non-Catholics) who say they wouldn’t do something yet believe in it or vice versa. They say they don’t believe in something yet they do it.
There are hypocrites in every faith.
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JRKH
Guest
I think what you mean is that they believe in “abortion rights”, that is, the individual should have the right to choose.
Not necessarily that they believe abortion is OK.
Unfortunately it is true that many DO feel this way.
I say unfortunately because it demonstrates a confused thinking. These people have teh mistaken impression that by opposing abortion we are imposing our beliefs on another, but this is not true.
When it comes to freedom of choice, especially in matters of faith, I wholeheartedly agree that we must not impose. However, abortion is not a matter of faith or religious practice. It is a matter of killing the innocent. Something that is wholly and correctly a civil matter cutting across religious lines.
The Government should pass laws to protect the innocent. Unborn children are innocent. Therefore the Law should protect them. Simple as that…
Peace
James
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Tony888
Guest
As others have hinted at, you raise the issue of Church vs. State
If the State makes something legal then are you right to try force non-Catholics to follow your will over the laws of the land?
Actions that are sins will be judged accordingly by God, regardless of what Congress voted.
I think the most you can accuse these Catholics of is not partaking actively in the ‘process’ to change the law.
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sedonaman
Guest
Before the Civil War, the intellectual argument du jour was, “I personally wouldn’t own a slave, but do not want to force my views on others.”
Does that make sense?
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sedonaman
Guest
Now there is a sweeping statement if I ever saw one. By this reasoning, we can say that øbama supporters “forced” non-supporters to follow their will. Therefore, Catholics have just as much right to “force” non-Catholics to follow their will as other groups have to force society to follow their will. In 1978, Roger Baldwin, founder of the ACLU, said, “We’ve depended on the courts as the vehicle by which we assert our interpretation of the Constitution.” No one so much as blinked an eye. But let the Church come out against an evil law and everyone goes ballistic, including some Catholics.
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Pax_Vobiscum_57
Guest
I totally agree with you.
As Catholics, we should not support capital punishment either, except in extreme cases (no where to contain the prisoner, self defense, etc.). A great many Christians are only too happy to see someone executed, when we should be horrified.
God creates life. Only God can take it away. Just because an atrocity is legal does not mean that it is right.
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Tony888
Guest
Did you read my note?
I asked if it was right to force compliance to doctrine that is agaisnt the Fed/State laws?
In the US our laws are enacted with a majortiy voting process, and in my closing I made it clear we were responsible for participating in the political process to shape these laws.
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Edward_H
Guest
Why is it more tempting to always turn these questions into macro/governmental/aggregate issues. Gov’t vs. Catholic.
God knows these are big problems. He doesn’t ask us to solve these sorts of problems by ourselves, today.
He does ask us to spread his Gospel with our very lives. So if we find a so called “hypocrite”…there’s our work for some time.
It always seems more “fun” to boil this issues into some big intractable “thing”.
More noble, I suppose, to fail at superhuman goals, then to struggle on with 1 on 1 formation of mistaken brothers and sisters.
God knows these are big problems. He doesn’t ask us to solve these sorts of problems by ourselves, today.
He does ask us to spread his Gospel with our very lives. So if we find a so called “hypocrite”…there’s our work for some time.
It always seems more “fun” to boil this issues into some big intractable “thing”.
More noble, I suppose, to fail at superhuman goals, then to struggle on with 1 on 1 formation of mistaken brothers and sisters.
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vsedriver
Guest
apparently the abolitionists thought it was OK to force compliance to doctrine that was against the law.
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Rascalking
Guest
It’s very easy to level the charge of “hypocracy” against someone. Claiming that there should be a moral standard that it is hard to live up to makes it very easy to say that someone is a hypocrite.
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sedonaman
Guest
I don’t know what “note” you mean. I read your entire post three or four times and still stand by mine. It appears we are talking about at least two different scenarios here:
- The state says doing “X” is no longer illegal; you may engage in as much “X” as you wish, but the Church says doing “X” is evil;
- The state says you must do “X”, but the church says doing “X” is evil.
In either case, the church is completely within its rights, and responsibilities, to assert the truth about “X” and encourage Catholics to work to change the law. Now, if that’s “forcing” non-Catholics to “follow their will”, then we have to make the same judgment about the ACLU and the millions of other political advocacy groups who are trying to change the law, which is nothing more than a mandate for everybody to do something or not to do something, IOW, “forcing” others to “follow their will”.
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sedonaman
Guest
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JRKH
Guest
It is most certainly NOT OK to force compliance with something against the law… However, it is perfectly fine, and even necessary to try and do two things. 1) Try to change a bad law and 2) Work to convince others that the law (and the action it permits) is indeed bad.
The problem here is that legalized abortion did NOT come about by majority vote, but rather by judicial fiat.
Further, as the voting public, and their representatives have attempted to change and/or limit this fiat, the supreme court has consistently stood in the way.
So - What we have is the old “majority rule” law(s) against abortion being overturned by judges appointed for life. Then we have these same judges, and those who have followed, continuing to shoot down efforts by the voting public and their representatives to enact [y]new "majority rules laws.
Peace
James
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sedonaman
Guest
Everyone is a hypocrite to some extent, so the charge should be labeled for what it is: hypocrisy itself. I think that charge against Catholics has been around as long as the confessional. Besides, there is a bit of a fallacy at work. If Joe Catholic sincerely believes that adultery is a sin, but succumbs to temptation in a moment of weakness, how does that make him a hypocrite? It’s a non-sequitur. The hypocrite is the one who says one thing but really believes the opposite. As I said, the one making the charge is the worse hypocrite, for he undoubredly has a lower standard for himself. Not only that, but he would lower the bar for everyone, which is what we hear from the popular culture all the time. [e.g., “It’s unreasonable to expect people to avoid adultery.”] The problem with that is there is no limit to how low the bar can be lowered.
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