Catholic Idolatry In Mexico

[Goya]

…

We as Catholics should send in missionaries the way Protestants are doing. Vast numbers of rural Mexicans are leaving the Church when the protestant missionaries visit their towns. And the charge of idolatry is what the protestant missionaries use to convince them that the Catholic Church is evil.

We could always use more missioneries!

FWIW: when I served as a missionery, the protestants were mostly laughed at and ostracized. Maybe things have changed–it’s been 20 years since I was there.

The good news however, is that at least America is becoming more Catholic, if Mexico is becoming more protestant.

…bearing in mind, that this is the state of affairs going into, Pope Francis’ papacy–the first American Pope–which I anticipate will be very fruitful for the Catholic Church!

*Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum. *

 

[Goya]

…

Like others have said, one really has to know what is in the person’s heart to know if it is superstition or idolatry. In the example I mentioned earlier, it certainly seemed like superstition when I was handed a card and told that it is very powerful.

Thank you for clarifying that. I was mostly distinguishing it from idolotry–not suggesting that superstition is acceptable. I would suggest however, that the distinction between superstition to idolotry, would be tantamount to a misdemeanor vs. a felony. Both crimes indeed (or sins), but the one is significantly more eggregious than the other.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[stewstew03]

Thank you for clarifying that. I was mostly distinguishing it from idolotry–not suggesting that superstition is acceptable. I would suggest however, that the distinction between superstition to idolotry, would be tantamount to a misdemeanor vs. a felony. Both crimes indeed (or sins), but the one is significantly more eggregious than the other.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

The danger is that one can lead to another. Superstition is the “gateway drug” to idolatry.

 

[carlos19]

Carlos:

I had the honor of serving as a missionery to mexico in the late 80’s through early 90s (86-93). I was humbled by the faith of many of the people I served, and the mexican people in general.

E.g.–visiting the basicilica of Guadalupe, and seeing believers walking some 300 yards accross the plaza, up to the altar, on their knees… In fact, so inspired, I did it myself once (and was duly rewarded with a verifiable miracle…)–and can testify that…it hurts like heck!

However, we mostly served rurual communities out in the sticks (more like jungles, actually). Not only did the bishop never visit those churches–the parish priest to which they pertained, would be lucky to get out there once a month–sometimes it would be more like 3-4 times a years–the priests were just that undermanned, and overwhelemed–that’s why we were called in.

Anyway, I’m not so sure that what you describe, really amounts to idolotry, in most cases.

e.g.–image of a saint in wallet yields money; there’s no act of worship directed at the image, or even the Saint. Hence it may be a silly superstition, but not necessarily idolotry.

As for the statues–I don’t see that as being any different that going to a place which contains any other significant relic, icon, or the like. Tradition has always maintained the propriety of venerating such, and in praying and worshipping where they are kept.

E.g.–All altars are supposed to have a saint’s relic in them–in fact, most do (though some do not).

Then, there is the word “basilica”–this designates a church with a significant/important relic or icon. Hence St. Peter’s Basilica is so namd, because it contains the remains (relics) of St. Peter. Or Basilica of Guadalupe–so designated, because it contains the actual ‘Tilma’ Our Lady of Guadalupe gave to San (St) Juan Diego, to give to the Bishop.

We go to these places seeking special graces and attention, because we beleive that they are places that are special to God. Doesn’t mean we’re worshipping the relics, or the icons, or the places–we are worshipping God, in/at these places.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

I really enjoyed reading your post…what part of Mexico did you go to?

Also, I also was inspired by watching the people who on their knees went to pay their respects to the Virgin. You know most of them come from far away as a form of pilgrimage. A relative walked 5 days to travel to the Basilica and at the end at the entrance of the Basilica, made her last leg of her pilgrimage traveling on her knees

 

[7armyrugrats]

We could always use more missioneries!

FWIW: when I served as a missionery, the protestants were mostly laughed at and ostracized. Maybe things have changed–it’s been 20 years since I was there.

The good news however, is that at least America is becoming more Catholic, if Mexico is becoming more protestant.

…bearing in mind, that this is the state of affairs going into, Pope Francis’ papacy–the first American Pope–which I anticipate will be very fruitful for the Catholic Church!

*Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum. *

The amount of Protestant influence does vary depending on where you are. My husband’s home town has only one church–the town is 100% Catholic. There are other churches in the surrounding towns, mostly the people are Catholic though. The other churches are Jehovah’s Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Mormon, and Pentecostal. Until three years ago, everyone from newborns to great grandparents in my husbands family identified themselves as Catholic. Now approx 25% are something else. It makes my husband sad. It angers the older generations in the family. It has gotten to the point they no longer want their children and grandchildren to leave the town for a better life for fear they will also leave the Church.

I truly believe the reason his hometown is still Catholic is because it is the only Church in the region that has a Tabernacle. His town holds all the Consecrated Hosts for the entire area. The town that the priest lives in doesn’t even have a tabernacle. The women in my husband’s hometown take turns “watching over Jesus” from 6 AM-6PM, and the men take their turns overnight. It has been this way for at least 70 yrs–no other town in the area has been able to arrange enough volunteers to make it work. I believe that the town’s devotion to Eucharistic Adoration and also to St. Joseph are the reason the faith thrives there. Yes, they do have some questionable practices and beliefs, but they have no ill intentions. It is a blind faith, not much knowledge of the Catechism. But that is also what makes their faith so pure, almost childlike. Unfortunately it is also why they are easily converted both in Mexico and when they immigrate to the US.

 

[Traverse]

I would agree with the OP that it’s a concerting matter, although far too easy to generalize to a whole “people.”

I’m not catholic, but in my early questionings of the catholic church I initially outright dismissed it. I live in southern California and this sort of attitude is prevalent there as well. It’s very off putting and pushed me away for many years. Now I’m here trying to learn more about the faith after talking to a catholic on the east coast who has assured me the almost fanatic behavior of some with statues and images are not encouraged.

The catholic church may not teach idolatry, but some of its members undoubtedly participate in it. We should all be careful.

 

[Goya]

I really enjoyed reading your post…what part of Mexico did you go to?

Also, I also was inspired by watching the people who on their knees went to pay their respects to the Virgin. You know most of them come from far away as a form of pilgrimage. A relative walked 5 days to travel to the Basilica and at the end at the entrance of the Basilica, made her last leg of her pilgrimage traveling on her knees

Thank you.

The southern state of Tabasco.

re. the Basilica–yes, we heard many such stories of pilgrims from all over the Mexico, and the world (though mostly only the Mexicans walked on their knees). The story of the Tilma is exteremely compelling; but watching those guys walk on their knees, was at once humbling, and truly inspiring. I hope to do it again sometime when I go back–after my kids get older.

(Unfortunately, me–and my knees–will be signifcantly older as well…).

btw: did you see the movie ‘Cristeros’?

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[regression]

I would suggest however, that the distinction between superstition to idolotry, would be tantamount to a misdemeanor vs. a felony. Both crimes indeed (or sins), but the one is significantly more eggregious than the other.

Interesting way to look at it. Thanks for your insight.

 

[Goya]

The amount of Protestant influence does vary depending on where you are. My husband’s home town has only one church–the town is 100% Catholic. There are other churches in the surrounding towns, mostly the people are Catholic though. The other churches are Jehovah’s Witness, Seventh Day Adventist, Mormon, and Pentecostal. Until three years ago, everyone from newborns to great grandparents in my husbands family identified themselves as Catholic. Now approx 25% are something else. It makes my husband sad. It angers the older generations in the family. It has gotten to the point they no longer want their children and grandchildren to leave the town for a better life for fear they will also leave the Church.

I truly believe the reason his hometown is still Catholic is because it is the only Church in the region that has a Tabernacle. His town holds all the Consecrated Hosts for the entire area. The town that the priest lives in doesn’t even have a tabernacle. The women in my husband’s hometown take turns “watching over Jesus” from 6 AM-6PM, and the men take their turns overnight. It has been this way for at least 70 yrs–no other town in the area has been able to arrange enough volunteers to make it work. I believe that the town’s devotion to Eucharistic Adoration and also to St. Joseph are the reason the faith thrives there. Yes, they do have some questionable practices and beliefs, but they have no ill intentions. It is a blind faith, not much knowledge of the Catechism. But that is also what makes their faith so pure, almost childlike. Unfortunately it is also why they are easily converted both in Mexico and when they immigrate to the US.

I just got chill bumps…

Mexico is where I was introduced to the most beautiful practice of Eucharistic adoration, and it was largely as you described it. I remember sitting up all night with the men as part of our missionery activity–in Eucharistic Adoration–and just being blown away!

Frankly, I had forgotten from whence my profound appreciation for the Eucharist–many times in the past few years, I think i cited Pope John Paul’s encyclical on the Eucharist–but you just reminded me that I read that after learning of it, and participating in it, in Mexico–many years before.

Wow…what great memories…thank you for re-kindling them.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[7armyrugrats]

I just got chill bumps…

Mexico is where I was introduced to the most beautiful practice of Eucharistic adoration, and it was largely as you described it. I remember sitting up all night with the men as part of our missionery activity–in Eucharistic Adoration–and just being blown away!

Frankly, I had forgotten from whence my profound appreciation for the Eucharist–many times in the past few years, I think i cited Pope John Paul’s encyclical on the Eucharist–but you just reminded me that I read that after learning of it, and participating in it, in Mexico–many years before.

Wow…what great memories…thank you for re-kindling them.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

We are blessed enough that our current parish here also practices Perpetual Adoration. This parish has been doing it for 11 years now, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, with the Host Exposed in the Monstrance. My husband and I take an hour on Sat. nights, one of our sons takes a Sun. hour. It is a small parish and has at least one volunteer each hour, but many hours have two or more Adorers. And many other people stop in when they are able. My husband was very receptive to the idea of adopting an hour because he grew up following his dad or one of the others when they went. Our current parish is richly blessed even though it is so small. Once again I believe it is due to the Eucharistic Adoration.

I realize that most if not all Catholic Churches in the US do have a tabernacle, and many do have Adoration hours. But now that I have seen how much my current parish and my husband’s town have benefitted from devotion to the Eucharist, I am sad for people who haven’t experienced this. It is so beautiful. I will be so heartbroken when the Army tells us it is time to move on from here.

 

[coachkfan1]

I thought that the Church teaches that when one venerates an image that they are not in fact venerating the image itself but the person that image represents? I thought that this was decided around 700 or 800 A.D.?

 

[Goya]

We are blessed enough that our current parish here also practices Perpetual Adoration. This parish has been doing it for 11 years now, 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week, with the Host Exposed in the Monstrance. My husband and I take an hour on Sat. nights, one of our sons takes a Sun. hour. It is a small parish and has at least one volunteer each hour, but many hours have two or more Adorers. And many other people stop in when they are able. My husband was very receptive to the idea of adopting an hour because he grew up following his dad or one of the others when they went. Our current parish is richly blessed even though it is so small. Once again I believe it is due to the Eucharistic Adoration.

I realize that most if not all Catholic Churches in the US do have a tabernacle, and many do have Adoration hours. But now that I have seen how much my current parish and my husband’s town have benefitted from devotion to the Eucharist, I am sad for people who haven’t experienced this. It is so beautiful. I will be so heartbroken when the Army tells us it is time to move on from here.

Absolutely!

As St. Teresa of Avila said: “He is in every tabrnacle in the world, just waiting, eagerly, for you to come and visit him”.

Our Church an adoration chapel–unfortunately though, not 24/7.

b/t/w: if you have to move, and your new town doesn’t have such a chapel or EA…you can always talk to the pastor about starting it!

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[bradleesargent]

Is this also a similar form of idolatry:
Acts 19:11-12 11 And God wrought by the hand of Paul more than common miracles. 12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

Couldn’t you claim that these handkerchiefs and aprons had power???
They had been blessed by the apostles and our church has priests which we consider to be direct descendants of the apostles.

So what’s the difference between these handkerchiefs and aprons and the cards you were handed or the icons, statues and images that are blessed by a priest???

I think South and Central America tend to have their own “brand”/”version” of Christianity, if you will – perhaps a better way to look at it is that they have their own understanding of Christianity as it was first introduced centuries ago to native indigenous peoples.

When Christianity was brought to these people, from what I’ve read over the years, they associated their own deities with Christian ones (some would argue “substituted” would be a better way of putting it) and continued to retain some of their own indigenous practices with this new religion.

If a certain saint, say, was thought to possess the same ‘qualities’ as a particular native deity – the saint may be Christian, but the people still associated him/her with the native deity (to their way of thinking/understanding),that saint represented, and said saint came to be venerated in more or less the same way the original native deity was.

Mary is a perfect example – in many parts of central and south America, she has replaced, for all intents and purposes, the earth goddess, mother/grandmother earth and is still venerated as such. The concept of the earth goddes/mother goddess is very strong in Native American culture (whether North, Central or South America) and I really think that’s one of the reasons the ‘cult of Mary’, so to speak, is so big in these areas today and why many of these practices still seen today seem to come off to some as borderline “idol worship”; simply original indigenous practices still being mingled today, to some degree, with “modern” Christianity.