Catholic Kabbala

[Young_Thinker]

Advent greetings, everyone. I know that this has to some extent been addressed in the “Ask an Apologist” subforum, but I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about Catholic Kabbala. I was previously the impression that all Cabalism involves the occult, but, according to Wikipedia, it was only after the 18th century that “Kabbalah became blended with European occultism, some of which had a religious basis.” I am fascinated with mysticism in general and am interested in learning about this phenomenon. For one thing, how exactly is it practiced?

 

[Barbkw]

What?

Seriously…Catholic Kabbala.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Esoteric belief systems add no good to the Catholic Faith and in fact can be dangerous.:sad_yes:

I would encourage you instead to focus on the many riches of the Faith itself and not go searching for mysterious esoteric knowledge. :nope:

Why does it fascinate you so much?

 

[Young_Thinker]

What?

Seriously…Catholic Kabbala.

Yes, it is also known as “Christian Kabbala.” It was practiced by people like Fr. Athanasius Kircher.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Esoteric belief systems add no good to the Catholic Faith and in fact can be dangerous.:sad_yes:

I would encourage you instead to focus on the many riches of the Faith itself and not go searching for mysterious esoteric knowledge. :nope:

Why does it fascinate you so much?

I do not know; I have always been intrigued by such things involving the mysterious or the like. I also want to seek spiritual truth. I know that it is extremely dangerous to participate in the occult, and Gnosticism, per se, is heretical. However, as I have said, I love mysticism, particular the Christian kind.

 

[MtnDwellar]

It seems to me that there can be no such thing as Catholic Kabbalah. My understanding is that Kabbalah is the mystical interpretation of the Torah and the Zohar. Traditionally the Zohar is thought to be the words that God gave to Abraham and Moses and were eventually written. So, both of the books used in Kabbalah predate Christ.

There are many who try to turn Kabbalah into something that it is not. Most of them are trying to make a dollar or they are trying to show a history of some other esoteric system.

There is nothing wrong with studying Kabbalah. I studied for a while. The language gets very confusing. I thought my time was better spent focusing on the richness of the Catholic faith.

 

[Young_Thinker]

It seems to me that there can be no such thing as Catholic Kabbalah. My understanding is that Kabbalah is the mystical interpretation of the Torah and the Zohar. Traditionally the Zohar is thought to be the words that God gave to Abraham and Moses and were eventually written. So, both of the books used in Kabbalah predate Christ.

There are many who try to turn Kabbalah into something that it is not. Most of them are trying to make a dollar or they are trying to show a history of some other esoteric system.

There is nothing wrong with studying Kabbalah. I studied for a while. The language gets very confusing. I thought my time was better spent focusing on the richness of the Catholic faith.

Interesting; thank you for sharing this information. However, I did read a little about Christian school of Cabalism that began in the Middle Ages. I know, for instance, that it involves Neoplatonism.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Does anyone else have something to say about this topic?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

What?

Seriously…Catholic Kabbala.

Almost as funny as relying on wikipedia as a primary source.

Here is the entry from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Kabbala

 

[Young_Thinker]

Almost as funny as relying on wikipedia as a primary source.

Oh, Brother! That website can at times be quite informative. Just because one may not be able to use it for a research-article certainly does not make it worthless. As for Christian Kabbala, a lot of its practitioners, like Ramon Llull, also engaged in alchemy, but that does not mean that Kabbalah needs to be occultic. However there are, indeed some schools, such as Practical Kabbalah, that emphasize magic.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Oh, Brother! That website can at times be quite informative.

When college professors will not accept it for anything, neither will I.

If its articles include primary sources, use those. Wikipedia is not to be trusted as a source.

 

[Young_Thinker]

When college professors will not accept it for anything, neither will I.

If its articles include primary sources, use those. Wikipedia is not to be trusted as a source.

Very well. I appreciate that you shared the Catholic Encyclopedia article.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Very well. I appreciate that you shared the Catholic Encyclopedia article.

The problem I have with wikipedia is that it is not reviewed and how do we know that what someone has chosen to post is a fact unless they source it? If they source it then comment their source rather than wikipedia because of the stigma of wikipedia being user driven with no review.

Do you see where I am coming from on this?

So you read on wikipedia that " it was only after the 18th century that “Kabbalah became blended with European occultism, some of which had a religious basis.”"

How do we know that is a true fact rather than just the opinion of the person who posted it to wikipedia? We can not know because that idea is not sourced.

 

[Young_Thinker]

The problem I have with wikipedia is that it is not reviewed and how do we know that what someone has chosen to post is a fact unless they source it? If they source it then comment their source rather than wikipedia because of the stigma of wikipedia being user driven with no review.

Do you see where I am coming from on this?

So you read on wikipedia that " it was only after the 18th century that “Kabbalah became blended with European occultism, some of which had a religious basis.”"

How do we know that is a true fact rather than just the opinion of the person who posted it to wikipedia? We can not know because that idea is not sourced.

Yes, I see what you are saying.

 

[jwashu]

It seems to me that there can be no such thing as Catholic Kabbalah. My understanding is that Kabbalah is the mystical interpretation of the Torah and the Zohar. Traditionally the Zohar is thought to be the words that God gave to Abraham and Moses and were eventually written. So, both of the books used in Kabbalah predate Christ.

There are many who try to turn Kabbalah into something that it is not. Most of them are trying to make a dollar or they are trying to show a history of some other esoteric system.

There is nothing wrong with studying Kabbalah. I studied for a while. The language gets very confusing. I thought my time was better spent focusing on the richness of the Catholic faith.

From someone who also studied Kabbalah, many years ago before it was “cool” and before I became Catholic it’s interesting but I believe time can be better spent studying our Faith. The Father are quite interesting if you haven’t read them much.

Joe

 

[PJM]

=Young Thinker;7361199]Advent greetings, everyone. I know that this has to some extent been addressed in the “Ask an Apologist” subforum, but I was wondering if anyone here could tell me more about Catholic Kabbala. I was previously the impression that all Cabalism involves the occult, but, according to Wikipedia, it was only after the 18th century that “Kabbalah became blended with European occultism, some of which had a religious basis.” I am fascinated with mysticism in general and am interested in learning about this phenomenon. For one thing, how exactly is it practiced?

My dear young friend In Christ,

The subject matter your seeking can be dangerous to one’s spiritual growth. I would certainly urge you to discuss this in private with your Pastor ASAP.

As an FYI the CC forbids any associaton with the Occult, which is from God’s cheif opponent, NOT GOD.

May God grant you TRUE Faith, Wisdom and Understanding. There are FAR more important things one ought to be studying.,

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Young_Thinker]

From someone who also studied Kabbalah, many years ago before it was “cool” and before I became Catholic it’s interesting but I believe time can be better spent studying our Faith. The Father are quite interesting if you haven’t read them much.

Joe

I really appreciate your information, especially from one who has first-hand experience with this subject. However, could not I do both? I am interested in nearly everything anyway.

 

[Young_Thinker]

My dear young friend In Christ,

The subject matter your seeking can be dangerous to one’s spiritual growth. I would certainly urge you to discuss this in private with your Pastor ASAP.

As an FYI the CC forbids any associaton with the Occult, which is from God’s cheif opponent, NOT GOD.

May God grant you TRUE Faith, Wisdom and Understanding. There are FAR more important things one ought to be studying.,

God Bless,
Pat

Thank you for your advice.

 

[MtnDwellar]

A Rabbi was teaching me Kabbalah. He said that he learned it from his father who learned it from his father, etc. The wisdom of the Kabbalah was passed by word of mouth through small groups to men only. A person could not ask to be taught Kabbalah. He must be invited to learn. Why he was teaching me? I really have no clue. He must have thought that I was ready.

I asked about the widespread schools of Kabbalah. He said that traditions change. The Kabbalah tells us that we are all part of one Kli. All souls progress collectively as a Kli and also individually. He said that the current tradition of spreading Kabbalah through classrooms and allowing women is based upon the thought that the Kli has progressed to a level that anyone who is drawn to the teaching is given a chance. By spreading the teaching, the Kli advances as a spiritual collective and also do the teachers.

According to the Rabbi, Kabbalah is an interpretation of the books. The interpretation changes with time. Different parts have relevance and meanings change in relationship to the development of the Kli. If someone says that he understands Kabbalah it means that he does not understand. Kabbalah is a moving target.

Given that the wisdom is based upon someone’s interpretation, the teaching will vary depending on that someone. There have been certain men who claim to have divine guidance in interpreting the books and teaching the wisdom.

I took it all in and found that parts have Christian counter parts. For example, one Kli and One Mystical Body of Christ. They seemed similar. Maybe that’s what Catholic Kabbalah does.

…Oh… I just thought of another thing that you may find interesting. The Rabbi didn’t answer all questions. He said that the answers were not important. They have a principle, Tikune. Tikune says that only desire is important for growth. Something like, If one has desire, the light will shine upon him. The understanding will come when the student is ready, provided that he has a desire. I thought that it was another way of stating biblical teaching, “Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened.”

 

[Young_Thinker]

A Rabbi was teaching me Kabbalah. He said that he learned it from his father who learned it from his father, etc. The wisdom of the Kabbalah was passed by word of mouth through small groups to men only. A person could not ask to be taught Kabbalah. He must be invited to learn. Why he was teaching me? I really have no clue. He must have thought that I was ready.

I asked about the widespread schools of Kabbalah. He said that traditions change. The Kabbalah tells us that we are all part of one Kli. All souls progress collectively as a Kli and also individually. He said that the current tradition of spreading Kabbalah through classrooms and allowing women is based upon the thought that the Kli has progressed to a level that anyone who is drawn to the teaching is given a chance. By spreading the teaching, the Kli advances as a spiritual collective and also do the teachers.

According to the Rabbi, Kabbalah is an interpretation of the books. The interpretation changes with time. Different parts have relevance and meanings change in relationship to the development of the Kli. If someone says that he understands Kabbalah it means that he does not understand. Kabbalah is a moving target.

Given that the wisdom is based upon someone’s interpretation, the teaching will vary depending on that someone. There have been certain men who claim to have divine guidance in interpreting the books and teaching the wisdom.

I took it all in and found that parts have Christian counter parts. For example, one Kli and One Mystical Body of Christ. They seemed similar. Maybe that’s what Catholic Kabbalah does.

…Oh… I just thought of another thing that you may find interesting. The Rabbi didn’t answer all questions. He said that the answers were not important. They have a principle, Tikune. Tikune says that only desire is important for growth. Something like, If one has desire, the light will shine upon him. The understanding will come when the student is ready, provided that he has a desire. I thought that it was another way of stating biblical teaching, “Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened.”

It sounds fascinating. Thank you for sharing your insights from this education.