Catholic Kabbala

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But I asked what is the distinction between the Catholic practice of withholding information from the uninitiated (i.e. those who have not yet received the
Sacraments of Initiation in the Catholic Church, or progressed suitably towards doing so) and the Jewish practice of withholding information from the uninitiated? Can you spell it out for me, please?

Why is one justified, and the other is heresy?

I apologize if I seem to be prodding on this issue, but you have not addressed my original question.
As described in this thread Kabbala is not “withholding information from the uninitiated”, it is a secret interpretation of the Scriptures that only practitioners of Kabbala can learn. Gnosticism is a similar belief system, that only those initiated into the gnostic sect can learn and understand.

Anyways, Kabbala has nothing to do with Catholicism. It is a Jewish practice that many Jews do not even accept.
 
Kabbala looks awfully Gnostic, if you read into the origins you will see for yourself.

Check out the following:

Anything on the spirituality of the early church Fathers.

St. Teresa’s Interior Castle

St. Ignatius’ Spiritual Exercises. (Especially the section “Three Methods of Prayer”)
Thank you.
 
As described in this thread Kabbala is not “withholding information from the uninitiated”, it is a secret interpretation of the Scriptures that only practitioners of Kabbala can learn. Gnosticism is a similar belief system, that only those initiated into the gnostic sect can learn and understand.
I think that is a fuzzy distinction, but you have provided a good answer even if I do not entirely agree with it.

Thank you for your patience with me, Brother.
 
Gnosticism, Paganism, Kabbalah, and many other systems have secrets. The secrecy is not the heresy.

I would also suspect that similarities between Kabbalists and Gnostics are mostly coincidental. Some are due to Gnostics studying Kabbalah. There are more similarities between Gnostics and Catholics than Gnostics and Kabbalists. The Kabblalist is not a Christian. Gnostics are Christians.

I don’t think that the term heresy applies to religions such as Kabbalah. Heresy is reserved for the departures from the main religion. Kabbalah is not a departure. It is totally separate.
 
Gnosticism, Paganism, Kabbalah, and many other systems have secrets. The secrecy is not the heresy.

I would also suspect that similarities between Kabbalists and Gnostics are mostly coincidental. Some are due to Gnostics studying Kabbalah. There are more similarities between Gnostics and Catholics than Gnostics and Kabbalists. The Kabblalist is not a Christian. Gnostics are Christians.

I don’t think that the term heresy applies to religions such as Kabbalah. Heresy is reserved for the departures from the main religion. Kabbalah is not a departure. It is totally separate.
Kabbalah as a religion would not be a heresy, that is like Judaism is a heresy. Kabbalah, as I understand it, is a practice of the Jewish religion.

For a heresy to be committed one must be a baptized member of the Church. I would say it is a heresy for a Catholic to get involved into Kabbalah as it goes against the Catholic Teachings of Scriptural interpretation.
 
Kabbalah as a religion would not be a heresy, that is like Judaism is a heresy. Kabbalah, as I understand it, is a practice of the Jewish religion.

For a heresy to be committed one must be a baptized member of the Church. I would say it is a heresy for a Catholic to get involved into Kabbalah as it goes against the Catholic Teachings of Scriptural interpretation.
Here we will run into a bit of trouble discussing Kabbalah. The trouble is that there is no central authority or unified teaching on the subject. The way that Kabbalah was presented to me was as the wisdom of Kabbalah. There were no rituals or practices. There was no Kabbalah prayers, or sacraments or even services. Furthermore, the Kabbalists say that their teachings are not a religion. I disagree.

I asked about things that I have read about Kabbalah. For instance I asked about Merkaba meditation. I was told that it is not part of genuine Kabbalah. I asked about prayer. The answer was that prayer was lifting your heart and mind to the creator, or Elohim. Prayer is only for the surrender of oneself. One does that in the manner that he finds best. Here is some more… God created man to receive His love. God is only love and His only action is bestowal. God can do nothing which is not for love. Man in both the broad sense, mankind, and also the narrow sense, one person, is originally capable only of receiving. As mankind, or Adam Ha Rashon, developed, just as an individual person develops from an infant, he begins to realize the benefit of bestowal. He becomes less interested in selfishness, and more interested in bestowal and love of the Creator. The entire point of Kabbalah is to enable a person to become more Godlike.

I read that an advanced Kabbalist can acquire anything that he wants. I asked about it. I was told that this is true. But - there is a catch. An advanced Kabbalist realizes that material things are an illusion. He only desires that which is spiritual. He can acquire all that is spiritual, if he has a desire.

I don’t think that studying these types of things constitutes a heresy. I did not follow through on studying Kabbalah. I found that the richness of Catholicism is more than adequate for my spiritual growth. You can probably tell that I found the subject interesting. To me, it is no more of a heresy than reading a book of Chinese proverbs. I really can’t recommend Kabbalah to anyone else, because I can’t recommend a school or teacher.

One of the things that I liked was the ability to discuss spiritual topics one on one with a wise man. This is a short coming for our Church. It is one of the reasons that we lose young people. If a young person gets involved in a cult, he will probably be taught directly by a high priest, coven leader, or other mucky-muck. These people are smart and they can be convincing. They know about Christianity. Our leaders know very little about them. When all we can tell a young person is, That’s bad, That’s dangerous. That is a sin. Etc. We are doing very little to divert their interest.

Notice the OP’s screen name, Young Thinker. His name describes the kind of person who is apt to be convinced to join a cult (No offense. You can’t help that you are young and thinking is good.)
 
Some of what you describe would be heresies for a Catholic to believe.

I will leave it at that.
 
Studying and believing are two different things. Are they not? I think that only believing constitutes heresy. Also, participation in a ceremony which denies the Holy Spirit is heresy. There are no ceremonies.
 
Studying and believing are two different things. Are they not? I think that only believing constitutes heresy. Also, participation in a ceremony which denies the Holy Spirit is heresy. There are no ceremonies.
I know I said I was done but I felt a need to reply to this.

You are correct, studying and believing are two different things. But why study if there is no wish to believe?

Studying is also dangerous for someone who is not strong in their Catholic faith, especially a catechumen.
 
I know I said I was done but I felt a need to reply to this.

You are correct, studying and believing are two different things. But why study if there is no wish to believe?

Studying is also dangerous for someone who is not strong in their Catholic faith, especially a catechumen.
Welcome back ByzCath. Your comments are appreciated.

One reason for study is that there is good in all religions and valuable lessons to learn. Another reason, particularly for someone with strong faith, is to find the flaws and help others to see it. Knowledge of other religions is important. We shouldn’t fear losing someone because he seeks knowledge. When they see others weaknesses, they will better appreciate the strength of our Church.
 
My friend,
you stated in post number 5 that you are intrigued by the mysterious and seek spiritual truth. I suggest respectfully that if you spend time before the Blessed Sacrament you will experience no greater mystery. Allow the Lord to be your teacher through His Holy Spirit. You will find truths beyond telling.

I have the greatest respect for anyone who travels a spiritual path honestly seeking. But Jesus gives us Himself. We don’t only Learn about Him, we enter into common union with Him and each other. As a catechumen, you are preparing to enter into the greatest mystery of all. I pray that you will (if you haven’t already) come to know that the spiritual hunger you are experiencing will be satisfied by God Himself. There’s an eternity’s worth to ponder in that. God Bless
 
Welcome back ByzCath. Your comments are appreciated.

One reason for study is that there is good in all religions and valuable lessons to learn.
Yes there is a kernel of truth in all religions but we in the Catholic Church have the fullness of the Truth, there is nothing we can learn in other religions that is not present in the Catholic Faith so there is no need to search for it elsewhere.
Another reason, particularly for someone with strong faith, is to find the flaws and help others to see it. Knowledge of other religions is important. We shouldn’t fear losing someone because he seeks knowledge. When they see others weaknesses, they will better appreciate the strength of our Church.
I agree, someone with a strong faith can do so but I would say that a catechumen, or an neophyte, are not such a person and should not be mixing things.
 
I agree, someone with a strong faith can do so but I would say that a catechumen, or an neophyte, are not such a person and should not be mixing things.
I can’t guess at the strength of anyone’s faith.
 
I can’t guess at the strength of anyone’s faith.
And as such we should never encourage anyone from exploring things that could harm those with weak faith.

The best is to direct them to their pastor or spiritual director for direction.
 
Yes there is a kernel of truth in all religions but we in the Catholic Church have the fullness of the Truth, there is nothing we can learn in other religions that is not present in the Catholic Faith so there is no need to search for it elsewhere.

I agree, someone with a strong faith can do so but I would say that a catechumen, or an neophyte, are not such a person and should not be mixing things.
👍

Also, consider the following verses from Luke, Chapter 10:

19
Behold, I have given you the power ‘to tread upon serpents’ and scorpions and upon the full force of the enemy and nothing will harm you.
20
Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice because your names are written in heaven."

21
At that very moment he rejoiced (in) the holy Spirit and said, “I give you praise, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike. 9 Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will.
22
All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him.”
23
Turning to the disciples in private he said, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see.
24
For I say to you, many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, but did not see it, and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it.”

In other words, as other posters have suggested, perhaps the best thing to do is focus on your experiences in the Catechumenate, learn the Faith, and whatever you may study about other religious beliefs later on, you will be able to come at with solid Catholic knowledge and discernment. Peace be with you.🙂
 
And as such we should never encourage anyone from exploring things that could harm those with weak faith.

The best is to direct them to their pastor or spiritual director for direction.
You are probably correct. I go by my experience. I have been involved, to one degree or another, with many religions and I am here. Faith is a gift.

On this forum, I often see the advice, “Talk to a priest.” What churches do these people go to? My parish has 4500 members and two priests. The only time I get with a priest is in the confessional. Then there is a line, so I always feel that I should get out quickly. Is there a trick to meeting with them? The last time I talked to a priest, I made arrangements to meet him after mass. His first words were, “I have only got fifteen minutes.”
 
My friend,
you stated in post number 5 that you are intrigued by the mysterious and seek spiritual truth. I suggest respectfully that if you spend time before the Blessed Sacrament you will experience no greater mystery. Allow the Lord to be your teacher through His Holy Spirit. You will find truths beyond telling.

I have the greatest respect for anyone who travels a spiritual path honestly seeking. But Jesus gives us Himself. We don’t only Learn about Him, we enter into common union with Him and each other. As a catechumen, you are preparing to enter into the greatest mystery of all. I pray that you will (if you haven’t already) come to know that the spiritual hunger you are experiencing will be satisfied by God Himself. There’s an eternity’s worth to ponder in that. God Bless
Thank you for your advice.
 
You are probably correct. I go by my experience. I have been involved, to one degree or another, with many religions and I am here. Faith is a gift.

On this forum, I often see the advice, “Talk to a priest.” What churches do these people go to? My parish has 4500 members and two priests. The only time I get with a priest is in the confessional. Then there is a line, so I always feel that I should get out quickly. Is there a trick to meeting with them? The last time I talked to a priest, I made arrangements to meet him after mass. His first words were, “I have only got fifteen minutes.”
I only suggestion would be to call the parish office and make an appointment. If your priests can not make time in this matter I would search out a priest at another parish.

As for the confessional, IMHO, take all the time you feel is necessary.

I too speak from my experience. Though baptized Catholic as an infant I was not raised in the faith, my parents were of the belief that I should chose but by them not teaching me anything they really left me with no choice. I went though many things non-Christian, but it all lead me to Christ, the where I am today. I have explored other religions, namely Islam and Taoism, while being a Catholic. I feel a draw to go back and explore the things of the past but I stay away due to that attraction and the knowledge that it could harm my faith.

The two that I have explored, Islam and Taoism, I have a reason to do so that is more than just my interest so I feel a bit safer there.
 
what you see, but did not see it, and to hear what you hear, but did not hear it."

In other words, as other posters have suggested, perhaps the best thing to do is focus on your experiences in the Catechumenate, learn the Faith, and whatever you may study about other religious beliefs later on, you will be able to come at with solid Catholic knowledge and discernment. Peace be with you.🙂
And also with you. Thank you for your suggestions.
 
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