Catholic lack of practice of their faith

[tkdnick]

I have noticed this seeming lack of faith in my parish…and it’s heartbreaking! And what’s worse, is that in order for me to learn anything about the Catholic faith, I had to do it on my own, because those in charge of education, etc. at my parish disagree with The Church on several aspects.

On the other hand, I receive the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ every Sunday at Mass. I have seen Catholics light up with faith and knowledge when placed in a setting that is focused on that. I see groups of people who hold STRONGLY to the faith despite the seeming lack of faith of those around them.

It’s all a part of the struggle of being a fallen human being.

 

[piety101]

LSK

      As always, LSK who never was a former Protestant doesn't know what he's talking about. He judges all Protestants as wife beaters, incestuous and just plain phonies. When the truth is, is that most evangelical Christians  are deeper into their faith than most Catholics. Outstanding ex evangelicals are Robert Sungenis, Stephen Ray and Tim Staples. They actually READ their bibles, attended Sunday school and witness to their faith. Tell me LSK, how many lay Catholics do you know that do the same?

      Evangelicals are MOTIVATED more than Catholics. They  do examine their faith and to share it. I ought to know I was a die hard Baptist myself for many years. I am now Catholic, and in the church I attend,  :(  NO ONE is interested in group bible studies period. We tried that. They are only interested in parish dinners and buying raffle tickets to win door prizes.

       As one HONEST poster stated there are a few among the walking dead that do live their faith, but there sure aren't many. That is what is so sad and pathetic. :(

 

[auhsoj88]

1st Generation converts are generally more devout to their faith than the 2nd, 3rd, and so on generations. Thus, cradle Catholics (not all of course) have generally less zeal than their ancestors that originally converted. This is true for Protestantism as well.

God bless!!

 

[scylla]

I too live in a parish which is full of the walking dead as someone described.

I used to attend an evangelical church called Calvary Chapel here in California, this is a real difference from the Church I attend as they are on fire for the Lord. But enthusiasm can be found in Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Islam and a ton of other denominations, What is the truth?

Does this mean they have the truth or that they are a new group that is fresh and made up of people who are mostly converts to evangelicalism who keep the fire going.

I have seen an awakening as people who have been studying the Church are coming in from other backgrounds bringing their gifts that they have with them. I am one of them, I feel so alive and ready to revive my Catholic parish and there are others out there.
I see converts coming into my parish enlivening it, but it will take time as the Church is still in a time of renewal.

I can’t leave the truth though and once I came to the realization of the truth of Catholicism, no matter how many “walking dead” there are, that won’t deter me.

In my experience there is a big difference in studying your way to Catholicism and the common leaving of Catholics who are uneducated in faith going to other churches. As I have said before most people leave the Church because they don’t know what it really is, most people come to the Church as they discover what it really is.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[piety101]

Very nice post Scylla and honest to. I pray you can do something in your parish to have the walking dead revived. We tried and no one cared. God Bless you.

 

[Lillith]

Tim,

I understand what you are saying…But what a day and time to be Catholic! As John Paul II said we are in the Spring…coming out of Winter…and I for one see a huge movement toward revitilization…

I am so excited. EWTN is reaching more and more folks on the radio and TV, it seems that we have new vibrant apologists…and for the first time in History (that I remember) Catholics are evangelizing…mainly evangelizing Catholics.

What caused the winter??? Apathy…the ugly church scandel…secularism…and that is what needs discussing…

This Church is old…2000yrs…and when you look at it in those broader terms, just like anything, there are cycles, but we are on an upswing. I can feel it.

Does anyone else feel it?

 

[gardenswithkids]

timz:

Why is there an apparent spiritual death in Catholic circles? My wife and I really have Christ as the center of our home, and I fear if I were ever to be fully convinced of Catholic doctrine that I would have to abandon my faith and closeness to Christ.

Perhaps the “spiritual death” of Catholics you observe could more closely be described as “spiritual casualties of war.” We live in turbulent times. There seems to be an effort by some within the Catholic Church in positions of authority to undermine the faith of average Catholics. Yes, I know that sounds odd. But this is spiritual warfare and as with other warfare, the enemy uses spies and traitors to accomplish his evil plans. There can be no other explaination for the pathetic catechism training of the last generation and for the scandals that recently plagued the Church.

But God will win this battle. The converts to Catholicism from Protestantism bring new vigor to the faith, like reinforcements. Having known the closeness to Christ, they spread their love for Him. Many Catholics leave for Protestant churches for a while, grow close to Jesus, learn the Bible, then learn the Catholic faith from authentic sources and come back strong. It seems God is using the Protestant Reformation to strengthen the Catholic Church at this point in history.

We now have access to many ways to learn the Catholic faith outside the influence of those who would destroy the Church from within. Catholic education once relied on parish schools and CCD, but the growth of homeschooling now allows parents to ensure the faith is faithfully taught. The internet and some Catholic publishing houses provide access to authentic Catholic teachings. The Catechism, revised under Pope John Paul II, gives us “a sure norm for teaching the faith” and an “authentic refernece text”. Interest in Bible studies is growing, fueled by a growth of good study material often written by former Protestants.

Okay, I’ve rambled off topic. But when you look at poorly educated Catholics who don’t live the Catholic faith, don’t assume it’s because the Catholic Church is the wrong Church. I think it’s because the Catholic Church is the true Church. Satan knows this too, so he attacks the Catholic Church hardest.

 

[Eden]

Lillith:

This Church is old…2000yrs…and when you look at it in those broader terms, just like anything, there are cycles, but we are on an upswing. I can feel it.

Does anyone else feel it?

No doubt about it! The Holy Spirit is working hard to draw apathetic Catholics back to the faith and to bring enthusiastic Protestants into Christ’s Church with their unique gifts. I went to World Youth Day in Denver in 1993 and felt the power of Christ’s presence in the Church at the Masses and gatherings with the Pope. I can’t even tell you how powerful the impact of Pope John Paul II’s death and the election of Pope Benedict XVI has been on my generation (I’m 30). I can’t even tell you how powerful it was to for Pope John Paul II to tell us at our gathering in Mile High Stadium, “John Paul 2 - He loves you.” We recognized him as a man of faith, as a man filled with Christ and a man full of love for Christ’s Church and love for us. What a strong message from our Pope -I love you. Christ loves you and I want nothing from you except that you love Christ and love His Church. Everyone that I know in my age group was devastated by the loss of JPII and I have seen their faith renewed since then. His death was sad for my parents’ generation and my grandparents’ generation but we who were born just before and during his papacy had a special love for him. I was filled with a grace during the time of JPII’s suffering and death that got me out of my “spiritual dryness” that had followed after college.

There are so many places to see that the Church is young and the Church is alive:

catholic.com/radio/calive.asp (Click on “Listen” for the June 20th show and hear about young Catholics who are embracing ancient devotions such as Eucharistic Adoration. Also check out the book on the right entitled “Young and Catholic”. It’s written by Tim Drake an ex-Lutheran convert.)

institute-christ-king.org/ (The traditional liturgy is drawing in young Catholics - Read about it on this page:
institute-christ-king.org/heavenly.html )

I am particularly inspired by these young Catholics who were featured in a documentary on EWTN:
crusadeforlife2005.com/

There are many examples of lack of faith or even of evil that we could find in our world. It is much more spiritually useful to concentrate on beauty and truth: Christ, His Church, the Eucharist and the lives of saints.

Above all - Don’t despair! (It’s a sin! )

 

[Catholic2003]

piety101:

It is called ritualism, rather than spiritualism.

In the Water Cooler, there is a thread “You might be in a faith community if …”, but the catch is that most of the posters seem to be fighting tooth and nail against becoming a “faith community”.

 

[timz]

DianJo,

We Catholics do not “announce” our faith as other denominations do in such elaborate fashion. I do see a distinct difference in how Catholics and Protestants “practice their faith”. We tend to lean more towards offereing our services to Catholic societies and organizatons and different committees within the parish and we don’t vocalize our beliefs - I think partly because up until the about the 60’s (at least in my mind) pretty much everyone was Catholic and it was assumed you were Cathloic and that you knew your faith so therefore there was no reason to speak about it as is done today. I think we are just now getting to the point where we realize we are going to have to start vocalizing because we are getting questioned so much more here lately about our beliefs. The other denominations are making themselves known and they are taking issue with what Catholics believe.

I think what you wrote caught my eye more than anything else. Toward the beginning I think you are describing what happened to all the mainlne protestant denominations as they liberalized and ceased to evangelize (as they really no longer believed the faith) and rather formed “social club churches” and took up a “social gospel” instead. Do you really believe there is now a conservative trend in Catholicism? Is there a trend to preach the gospel and evangelize?

Mercygate,

Nothing could be further from the truth. If one explores the spiritual literature of the last 2000 years, the most compelling devotional work chronicles the living relationship between God and the individual soul – starting with the Desert Fathers. In the Middle Ages, you have works like The Cloud of UnknowingI, and the writings of St. Bernard of Clairvaux – not to mention Thomas Aquinas, who turns theology into a seraphic spiritual adventure. I also think of modern writers, like St. Ignatius of Loyola (16th Century), St. Francis de Sales (17th Century), Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross (both 17th Century). Great 20th Century writers like G. K. Chesterton can’t be ignored. A great read, for anybody – not just people looking at the Catholic Church – is Thomas Merton’s The Seven Storey Mountain. A popular book right now is Rome Sweet Home, by two reluctant Converts, Dr. Scott and Kimberly Hahn.

Could you recommend your favorite?

1Ke,

I could introduce you to some Baptists I know who haven’t seen the inside of their church in a loooong time.

Why is it you perceive this as a uniquely Catholic problem

I am fully aware of the problem within mainline protestantism. However, have your any familiarity with evangelicals or fundamentalist churches? I suspect if you did you would know where I am coming from here.

Philneri,

I ask you again if you have ever heard of World Youth Day.

I have heard of it, but know nothing about it.

Fiat,

I guess if I were chosing a religion based on the zeal of its members, I would probably be a Mormon, but my criteria is something beyond that

Excellent point. Though could you admit if you perceived what I do within the church it would be a strong deterent?

Fidelis,

As far as the moribund state of Europe is concerned, it isn’t accurate to state that it is “all” or even most of Europe is Catholic (England, Germany, and the Scandanavian countries are mostly Protestant) and there is no evidence that Catholicism is the cause of that continents decline, rather, it is rooted in the cynical and secularist attitudes that arose after the World Wars.

You are obviously correct on this, I apologize.

LSK,

I think, Tim, that though your question was not meant to offend it reflects the same kind of prejudice I fight within myself when it comes to non-Catholics

I have difficulty seeing myself as prejudice, when many Catholics have responded agreeing with my observation.

Scylla,

Great post, could you elaborate further?

Sorry if I did not respond to anyone as there are many posts to go through. Thank you to for all the replies.

God Bless,
Tim

 

[1ke]

Timz

Yes, I am very familiar with evangelicals. I live in the South. I know many personally, and attended evangelical churches before becoming Catholic.

I do not see that what you describe is a uniquely Cahtolic problem. I think it manifests itself differently in different denominaitons, but you bet it’s there.

 

[mercygate]

timz:

Mercygate,

Could you recommend your favorite?

Oi! That’s like asking what’s your favorite hymn.

I recommend beginning with something written for “the world” – like The Seven Storey Mountain. It chronicles Thomas Merton’s journey from spiritual “nothing-hood” through his time at Cambridge, then at Columbia in New York (the house he lived in is on 114th Street), teaching at St. Bonaventure College and his entrance into the Trappist Abbey of Gethsemani. It is not a book about ‘Catholic spirituality’ as much as it is about a personal conversion to Christ that culminates in a Catholic monastic vocation. It was published in 1949 and has never been out of print.

St. Francis de Sales’ Introduction to the Devout Life is a classic of the genre: advice from a seasoned bishop to his daughter in Christ, “Philothea,” on growth in the spiritual life.

St. Therese of Lisieux (19th Century), The Story of a Soul, is short, poignant and simple – so “simple” that it earned her a place among only 33 “Doctors of the Church” whose writings are deemed as central to the faith. Aside from her sacramental theology, which is entirely Catholic, this book can be read to advantage by any Christian.

St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross are both also Doctors of the Church, but I find their Baroque Spanish mysticism rather mannered. But that’s just my personal reaction. They are brilliant, wise, and viscerally holy.

Hold off on Ignatius of Loyola because you don’t “read” Ignatius, you “do” Ignatius, and the spirituality is aimed at a total commitment to Christ and to the Church. It is a manly and full-blooded approach to “God our Lord.” My kinda guy. I have made the famous Spiritual Exercises over a two year period under the personal direction of an experienced Jesuit. The classical way of “doing” Ignatian spirituality, however, begins with a 37-day directed retreat during which you spend five hours a day in prayer . . .

Rome Sweet Home is a speed-read. A thriller of a conversion story. It is compelling but hardly in the same league as the other books I have cited.

The Cloud of Unknowing is by an unknown author (not sure about the date – 11th Century?), possibly a Carthusian monk. It is a classic on contemplative on contemplative prayer. It basically tries to convey the inexpressible . . .

I could go on like this for a week . . .

 

[Mot_Juste]

Timz,

In your introductory post you said

I am a current Evangelical/Fundamentalist who came out of the liberal ELCA.

I would like to ask you about something that I see as a major difference between Protestants and Catholics. Is it fair to say that active church going Protestants seek churches where the people are very similar to themselves and have no problem switching churches until they find the right community? I don’t mean people who look the same or are in the same social class, but rather people who have similar beliefs about what a church is, share the same zeal, are equally “on-fire” (or equally tepid), and have the same basic theological positions.

The reason I ask, is because that kind of church-migration, generally speaking, isn’t an option for Catholics. Certainly those of us who live within driving distance of several parishes may pick the one where we feel most comfortable, and those who seek a Latin or Charismatic mass will go out of their way to find it, but for the most part we pick our parish based on geography. If you attend mass at the local parish, you’ll have everyone from casual church-goers to the really fired up Spirit-filled believers, liberals (or progressives) and conservatives, but very few will try to draw attention to those differences. You’ll see a few people showing visible signs that they carry their faith a little further – maybe a lady who covers her head with a scarf, or a family that kneels at certain times when no one else does, or a man following along in his own well-worn missal, but generally even the most convicted pious believer isn’t going to look any different than the folks who are only there because their mother is in town. You would not be able to judge them unless you followed them for the rest of the week to see how they live their faith.

–Bill

 

[mercygate]

Tim,

Others are asking the same questions you are – right here!

catholic.com/newsletters/kke_050621.asp

 

[Lukelion]

Timz,
This is a matter of perspective. We are in a race. Think the tortise and the hare. I know of Catholics who appear to be “plodding” to church, but they have been going for the past 40 years. I also know Evangelicals who burn out after 10 years from the extreme emotionalism.Slow and steady wins the race.
Lukelion

 

[LSK]

piety101:

LSK

As always, LSK who never was a former Protestant doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He judges all Protestants as wife beaters, incestuous and just plain phonies. When the truth is, is that most evangelical Christians are deeper into their faith than most Catholics. Outstanding ex evangelicals are Robert Sungenis, Stephen Ray and Tim Staples. They actually READ their bibles, attended Sunday school and witness to their faith. Tell me LSK, how many lay Catholics do you know that do the same?

Evangelicals are MOTIVATED more than Catholics. They do examine their faith and to share it. I ought to know I was a die hard Baptist myself for many years. I am now Catholic, and in the church I attend, NO ONE is interested in group bible studies period. We tried that. They are only interested in parish dinners and buying raffle tickets to win door prizes.

As one HONEST poster stated there are a few among the walking dead that do live their faith, but there sure aren’t many. That is what is so sad and pathetic.

Read the post again, Piety. You are out of line, one more time.

 

[LSK]

Tim wrote:

"LSK,

I have difficulty seeing myself as prejudice, when many Catholics have responded agreeing with my observation."

The fact that many of the Catholics have agreed with you does not mean you and I do not suffer from inherent prejudices. When I first moved to the Central Valley I came in contact with more protestants than I ever had before, as well as anti-Catholic bias. My initial reaction was to see only those who were not practicing their brand of Christianity. I saw only the ugly side, the people who claimed to be Christian but were not. That kind of inherent prejudice against Protestants was my problem, not their problem, and so I had to ask myself if I was truly being fair. I wasn’t.

Now I know that people are people, they are all subject to sin, none of them practice what their faith teaches with perfection and that I cannot judge what is in someone’s heart. You met a Catholic that did not fully understand the Eucharist. I met a Southern Baptist that did not understand the term ‘born again’. You saw some Catholics that did not seem to fully appreciate the fullness of the Mother Church. I saw some Pentecostals, Assembly of God members and Southern Baptists that were manufacturing meth and beating their wives and children.

My confessor helped me see the sin I was committing and helped me get back on track to being a Catholic Christian and not someone who took it upon myself to judge entire communities by the actions of a few. Believe me, Tim, I am not proud of how I was six years ago. However, I do see it as my starting point of deepening my faith and committment, one that I always had but that had really not properly matured. Does that make sense?

There are entire parishes (unfortunately) who are not being obedient to the teachings of the Church. Some are ‘liberal’ and others see themselves as ‘traditional’. I am blessed that my parish is lead by a good, holy priest.

 

[DianJo]

timz:

DianJo,

I think what you wrote caught my eye more than anything else. Toward the beginning I think you are describing what happened to all the mainlne protestant denominations as they liberalized and ceased to evangelize (as they really no longer believed the faith) and rather formed “social club churches” and took up a “social gospel” instead. Do you really believe there is now a conservative trend in Catholicism? Is there a trend to preach the gospel and evangelize?

Tim

I do think there is a trend for Catholics to preach and evangelize more. Like I said, we are not conditioned to “preach” as other protestant denominations are. Our faith is a very personal thing and we tend to show it through service organizations, giving our time and talents to those who need help, sort of done on the QT, ya know? BUT on the other hand, I’ve had conversations with many new, young priests coming out of the seminary that have told me as well as the parish that there are many conservative, orthodox priests about ready to enter the preisthood. They are “on fire” with their faith and they are ready to spread it. They are ready to preach the truth to those who are, as someone said earlier, “the walking dead” even to the extent that if someone is offended by the truth, then so be it!

Their plan is to reawaken the people in the pews to their faith and to teach the youth nothing but the truth. That’s what Catholics need - someone to strike the match (in some parishes) so that they can go out and not be afraid to evangelize. I don’t think it will be anything like the protestants do but I think it will be easier for Catholics to vocalize.

You have to understand, alot of Catholics don’t know the whys of what they believe. (Shame!) They know it’s true and they have a little bit of knowledge about why but they feel very uncomfortable going up against a “bible Christian” because Catholics don’t memorize the bible. They can’t point out where in the bible their beliefs are. I’ve often heard people say, “Oh, I don’t know enough to be able to explain why. I know why I believe but I can’t explain it to anyone else!” It’s something most (or alot) of Catholics just grew up with. Converts are so much better at explaining their new Catholic beliefs because they came from a bible based church and that’s great because they can teach the rest of the Catholics.

Sorry to ramble, it’s just hard to explain to someone who didn’t grow up with that mindset. I did and I had to learn everything all over again and it’s still very hard for me to voice my faith without being asked about it first! Our catechesis as children is lacking, I think. That spills over into the parishes. But, things are changing and more Catholics are learning their faith now, I think, more than ever and are ready to defend it!

Watch out!

 

[scylla]

Hmm, I am not sure how to elaborate at the moment as I don’t have very much time, I have to get to work…

Let me just say that me becoming Catholic wasn’t a leaving behind of my evangelical experience, but rather a fulfillment of faith. I left nothing behind and still talk to, and am friends with many people from Calvary Chapel.

In fact yesterday I spent a couple hours there as I went to visit, but ended up in a discussion with a pastor there about the Catholic faith. In the end he ended up inviting me back, and I invited him to Mass. I also described how we participated in Mass which he did ask questions about.

So even though I feel I am in a parish that is in poor shape, I know the faith is true, so I am doing what I can to help. In fact there are 2 recent converts in our Church doing the same. One is now in charge of youth group and things are happening.

I travel a lot and see some parishes that are lukewarm but I have been to many that I wish I was a part of. There is one in particular in Escondido, California that is so large and vibrant it almost makes me want to move there.

I feel like some of these Catholics you notice are like a person who grows up rich, in a nice house, never has to work and never knows the blessings that they have. Compared to the person who starts with nothing and ends up with even a modest house, they feel more blessed than the first person sometimes.

Oops I am late now…
God Bless
Scylla

 

[alterserver_07]

Many people will say they are Catholic and may even go through the motions, but some only go through comformation and stop trying to learn about the Fatih. My closest friends are Catholics and they practice their Faith wtih all there heart. I would also have to say from personal expirence that the most attractive people in the world are people who practice their Faith with all their heart. I have never meet more beautiful young women in my life than at Catholic gatherings. Now these are my expirences and someone elses will be different, but I think many people will agree with me on something like this. I meet tons of Catholics that practice there Faith and they are awesome.