Catholic leaders gather to counter decline of faith

[Pitcharan]

No. Not at all. This is all wrong.

What the Church has to do is mobilize so that people spend more time at the parish and develop social contacts who are also Catholic. We also need devotions at the parish level and devotions at the personal level that are connected to those parish devotions. We also have to develop a much better sense of Catholic identity. You should be able to walk down the street and spot another Catholic from 10 feet away, even if you don’t know them.

No. It doesn’t. That was precisely the point of the article. YOu didn’t read it.

Sorry. Your views are unacceptable and I see no scope for a healthy debate with you.

 

[St_Francis]

Sorry. Your views are unacceptable and I see no scope for a healthy debate with you.

You write all this stuff which is not in line with Church teaching and you say *her *views are unacceptable?

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists, it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.
They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),

Witch-hunting was much more popular among Protestants than Catholics, and the Inquisition, aside from being preferred to the secular system by malefactors was a defense against people infiltrating the Church and teaching heresy and against people claiming to be Catholic and working for the enemies of the State.

ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)

The Church never taught that communists should be hated, but they did teach that they were wrong and ought not to be listened to, and in many cases, communists were enemies of the non-communist nations they were in.

iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)

Where does the Church teach to do this? Nowhere. Moreover, those most likely to do that are not Catholics but Protestants. Telling other they are wrong is neither hateful nor wrong in any way.

The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental

We do not judge the state of a person’s soul but must judge the morality of actions or we would not be able to function. The Church actually improves the state of a person’s soul through the sacrament of confession.

• Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC

What talk of heresies are you talking about? The Church has done everything possible to draw others into dialogue about the truth, we are not calling people heretics.

• Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world

They have been working on this for quite some time.

• Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God

Would you not consider the son and co-worker of a great scientists to be more of an expert on the great man’s work than some random guy on the street? Would you not consider those who had worked closely with the son to know more about the work than some random guy on the street? Do you understand that in addition to that, we have the supernatural level involved?

Of course the Church founded by God Himself, in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ, Who suffered and died for us on the cross, has more truth. The Church *is *objectively superior in matters of salvation, truth, and knowledge of God; however, the Church does not teach that She has a monopoly on this.

 

[Pitcharan]

You write all this stuff which is not in line with Church teaching and you say *her *views are unacceptable?

Witch-hunting was much more popular among Protestants than Catholics, and the Inquisition, aside from being preferred to the secular system by malefactors was a defense against people infiltrating the Church and teaching heresy and against people claiming to be Catholic and working for the enemies of the State.

The Church never taught that communists should be hated, but they did teach that they were wrong and ought not to be listened to, and in many cases, communists were enemies of the non-communist nations they were in.

Where does the Church teach to do this? Nowhere. Moreover, those most likely to do that are not Catholics but Protestants. Telling other they are wrong is neither hateful nor wrong in any way.

We do not judge the state of a person’s soul but must judge the morality of actions or we would not be able to function. The Church actually improves the state of a person’s soul through the sacrament of confession.

What talk of heresies are you talking about? The Church has done everything possible to draw others into dialogue about the truth, we are not calling people heretics.

They have been working on this for quite some time.

Would you not consider the son and co-worker of a great scientists to be more of an expert on the great man’s work than some random guy on the street? Would you not consider those who had worked closely with the son to know more about the work than some random guy on the street? Do you understand that in addition to that, we have the supernatural level involved?

Of course the Church founded by God Himself, in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ, Who suffered and died for us on the cross, has more truth. The Church *is *objectively superior in matters of salvation, truth, and knowledge of God; however, the Church does not teach that She has a monopoly on this.

I have no reason to believe that you are the spokesperson of the Catholic church. I find all your arguments unconvincing, distorted and biased .

 

[iloveangels]

Sorry. Your views are unacceptable and I see no scope for a healthy debate with you.

“Debate” is a code word for “running over with no regard for manners or logic.”

I don’t care to “debate” with you. I’m just stating what I see as I see it. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.

 

[St_Francis]

I have no reason to believe that you are the spokesperson of the Catholic church. I find all your arguments unconvincing, distorted and biased .

You have asserted several things about the Catholic Church of which you claim to be a member.

**Pitcharan wrote: **

*Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists, *
Please provide evidence that these people exist in large numbers in the Catholic Church.

it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.
Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church is not working towards love or that vast numbers of Catholics are engaged in fault-finding.

They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),
Please provide evidence that the Church has anything to apologize for in either.

ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)
Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church spread hatred against Communists.

*iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)
*Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church or vast numbers of Catholics are spewing venom on others.

*The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental*
  Please provide evidence that God does not want the Church to teach the world morality.

*- Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC
*I don’t even know what this means…

*- Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world
*The Catholic Church has been and still is working very hard to deal with corruption and the worse evils.

*- Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God
*Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church is not founded by God in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ for the purpose of spreading the truth and knowledge which ease people’s way into Heaven; and any evidence that the Catholic Church claims a monopoly on all truth about God.

 

[iloveangels]

You have asserted several things about the Catholic Church of which you claim to be a member.

Pitcharan wrote:

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists,
Please provide evidence that these people exist in large numbers in the Catholic Church.
…
Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church is not founded by God in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ for the purpose of spreading the truth and knowledge which ease people’s way into Heaven; and any evidence that the Catholic Church claims a monopoly on all truth about God.

Could you PLEASE learn to use the / quote] function. This is a formatting mess.

 

[St_Francis]

Could you PLEASE learn to use the / quote] function. This is a formatting mess.

I know how to use the quote function–I did that so that he wouldn’t have any problems answering me, since anything i put into Quote would not show up in his text box.

 

[St_Francis]

Could you PLEASE learn to use the / quote] function. This is a formatting mess.

Is this better for you?

Unless the church reins in its fundamentalists, moral police, rabid anti-islamists and fanatic zionists,

Please provide evidence that these people exist in large numbers in the Catholic Church.

it cannot stop the exodus towards secularism. Christians in general and Catholics in particular should realise that our faith is all about love and NOT fault finding.

Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church is not working towards love or that vast numbers of Catholics are engaged in fault-finding.

They should publicly repent the sins of:
i) long ago past (days of inquisition and witch-hunting),

Please provide evidence that the Church has anything to apologize for in either.

ii) recent past (spreading hatred against communists)

Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church spread hatred against Communists.

iii) and present (spewing venom on others in the pretext of being of moralistic and pro-life)

Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church or vast numbers of Catholics are spewing venom on others.

The church should emphasise focus on:

• Not being judgemental

Please provide evidence that God does not want the Church to teach the world morality.

• Avoiding any talk about alleged heresies outside CC

I don’t even know what this means…

• Cleansing of corruption and worse evils within instead of doing the same to the outside world

The Catholic Church has been and still is working very hard to deal with corruption and the worse evils.

• Disown and drop all ideas of superiority / monopoly in salvation, truth and knowledge of God

Please provide evidence that the Catholic Church is not founded by God in the Person of His Son Jesus Christ for the purpose of spreading the truth and knowledge which ease people’s way into Heaven; and any evidence that the Catholic Church claims a monopoly on all truth about God.

 

[Pitcharan]

“Debate” is a code word for “running over with no regard for manners or logic.”

I don’t care to “debate” with you. I’m just stating what I see as I see it. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.

If I don’t like something I have the right to say so.

 

[teenphilo1]

I did read it. It calls itself in opposition to religion. It makes its stance clear.

 

[Peter_Plato]

If I don’t like something I have the right to say so.

That opens an entirely new can of worms.

What or who gives you that right? Is it a universal right?
What if your “like” mechanism is fundamentally flawed?
Does that still give you a right to express it?
Does “not liking” include hating?
Does that entail you have a right to hate monger or incite others to your hatred or even violence to suppress things or people you dislike, as well?

The upshot is I am not clear that you do have anything approaching an absolute right to say whatever you like about things or people you “don’t like.”

 

[St_Francis]

If I don’t like something I have the right to say so.

People can say pretty much whatever they want. Others have the right to ignore them if they say foolish things or refuse to back up what they are saying or choose to dismiss without further investigation ideas they do not already agree with.

 

[Pitcharan]

People can say pretty much whatever they want. Others have the right to ignore them if they say foolish things or refuse to back up what they are saying or choose to dismiss without further investigation ideas they do not already agree with.

“He who calls his brother a fool is guilty of the fire of Hell” (Matt 5:22c)

 

[Pitcharan]

That opens an entirely new can of worms.

What or who gives you that right? Is it a universal right?
What if your “like” mechanism is fundamentally flawed?
Does that still give you a right to express it?
Does “not liking” include hating?
Does that entail you have a right to hate monger or incite others to your hatred or even violence to suppress things or people you dislike, as well?

The upshot is I am not clear that you do have anything approaching an absolute right to say whatever you like about things or people you “don’t like.”

Why do you needlessly pervert my simple statement. Whatever you say can neither stop someone nor deny their right to state that they dislike a thing.

 

[Pitcharan]

People can say pretty much whatever they want. Others have the right to ignore them if they … refuse to back up what they are saying or choose to dismiss without further investigation ideas they do not already agree with.

Asking a poster to back his statement is fine; but to expect a back up of the obvious is unlikely to get the expected response. And twisting another’s statement and then demanding a back up is absolutely unacceptable.