Catholic magic?

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I know that Catholicism changes depending on culture, but I have been curious about what would otherwise seem like magic. I’m not talking about the mystery of transubstantiation, nor am I talking about Santeria; something perhaps in between.

Examples: we know that saints have certain specialties, so to speak (patron saint of lost objects and such things) but some people, like my Catholic Gypsy family members (Gypsies from Romania) seem to take it pretty far like lighting a candle to certain saints at certain times will yield certain results. It’s almost like a spell.

Then there are things like a little statue of Saint Joseph being sold in the gift shop of the mission where my parish is. It has instructions for burying it upside down to guarantee the sale of a property. It’s not quite Santeria, but it almost seems to be magic based on the saints.

I’m just wondering the different thoughts on things like this. I am not sure what to think one way or the other. I believe that praying to the saints has power, but I’m not sure about the rest of it. I won’t judge those who believe in things like I described, and for now I am just observing and learning and sticking to prayer. I have heard discouragement from many in the church regarding thinking that there is magic in wearing crosses, rosaries etc other than as a spiritual reminder and handiness of a tool (such as a rosary) but I also know Catholics who wear these things as if the objects will ward off evil; like a magic charm or talisman.

I am a new Catholic, and I am just exploring different avenues of Catholicism. I hope that I didn’t touch on something too sensitive.
 
newcalling said:
Then there are things like a little statue of Saint Joseph being sold in the gift shop of the mission where my parish is. It has instructions for burying it upside down to guarantee the sale of a property.
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I don;t quite see how that would work and why it would be necessary to bury the statue upside down. Is this a Roman Catholic gift shop? If so, perhaps you could ask the owner of the Catholic shop why you have to bury the statue upside down and not right side up?
 
Anything which involves witchcraft, spells, fortune telling, horoscopes, superstitions is gravely wrong and against the First Commandment. The fact that some Catholics may practice the occult does not make it right nor does it mean that these things are part of Catholicism.
God bless you. Welcome home to the Faith.
 
Well, it can go the other way as well.
Some people discount every devotion and prayer practice as being oddly obsessed with Mary and the Saints to the exclusion of Jesus.
The Church has no requirement to participate in various devotions.
Yet, for centuries, people have seen and experienced the value in such methods of praying.
The bottom line is…the “item” is not working. The PRAYERS are.
Belief is a fascinating thing, and it’s also real. Ask any kid who believes in Santa.
Is Santa a reference to Saint Nicholas who gave gifts out of love and concern, or is Santa a way to honor the Christ Child by giving gifts and cheer to others, or is Santa a marketing tool for big business?
It’s all in your perspective and proper placement of things. If one believes that certain things are magical…that’s not good, nor promoted.
If you consider them helpful to wrap your head around certain things that DO happen…well, I guess you have tried to reason out that which can’t always be explained.
Exorcists do promotes using a crucifix to keep the prince of lies at bay. Just sayin’.
At any rate…
Prayer works. Some people pray purely from the heart. Some pray using medals and rosaries to focus. They are really outward signs of inner prayers.

I know of many a construction worker that won’t walk under a ladder. 🤷

Welcome home.
 
The three generic ways in which devils assault men are by temptation, obsession and magic.

Magic is understood as the art of making use of the forces of nature by certain occult observances that have a religious appearance, or of courting the secret influences of the invisible world.

The principal sins against the First Commandment:
  • superstition, which may be called a perverse excess of religion, such as attributing religious benefits to merely external actions;
  • idolatry, which gives a creature divine honors;
  • divination, which seeks to know the future by having recourse to the evil spirit, or the spirits of the dead, or alleged hidden powers, instead of trusting in the providence of God;
  • magic and sorcery, which claim to evoke occult forces in order to have power over other people.
Superstition is unseemly or unbecoming worship of God.
When superstition tends toward magic, it associates God’s blessings with the veneration of unapproved objects or belief in unverified revelations or the performance of unauthorized ritual.
 
newcalling said:
I know that Catholicism changes depending on culture, but I have been curious about what would otherwise seem like magic. I’m not talking about the mystery of transubstantiation, nor am I talking about Santeria; something perhaps in between.

Examples: we know that saints have certain specialties, so to speak (patron saint of lost objects and such things) but some people, like my Catholic Gypsy family members (Gypsies from Romania) seem to take it pretty far like lighting a candle to certain saints at certain times will yield certain results. It’s almost like a spell.

**Then there are things like a little statue of Saint Joseph being sold in the gift shop of the mission where my parish is. It has instructions for burying it upside down to guarantee the sale of a property. It’s not quite Santeria, but it almost seems to be magic based on the saints. **

I’m just wondering the different thoughts on things like this. I am not sure what to think one way or the other. I believe that praying to the saints has power, but I’m not sure about the rest of it. I won’t judge those who believe in things like I described, and for now I am just observing and learning and sticking to prayer. I have heard discouragement from many in the church regarding thinking that there is magic in wearing crosses, rosaries etc other than as a spiritual reminder and handiness of a tool (such as a rosary) but I also know Catholics who wear these things as if the objects will ward off evil; like a magic charm or talisman.

I am a new Catholic, and I am just exploring different avenues of Catholicism. I hope that I didn’t touch on something too sensitive.
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This is superstition and is a sin of grave matter.
 
In my first ever silent ladies retreat, many years ago, our retreat master was a holy priest who came from a country where people sometimes sought after psychic type of people, which is not of the Lord.

He gave us very good information and did mention the devotion to St. Joseph and burying the statue upside down for the sale of a home. He said no one has to do special types of things like that to get their prayer answered. He bewailed the fact that in the Catholic gift and book shop we frequented on the grounds of our retreat, sold such kits. (They also had many beautiful sacramentals and good books.)

That particular devotion to St. Joseph seems to have taken on a life of its own, and has the tendency to make people think they must do certain things to have the prayer answered. He instructed us not to do that.

There are other instances where different practices enter in and take the focus off of a rightly directed faith.
For example: wearing a golden horn on a chain.
 
As Clare said, it is the prayer that works. If someone buries a statue of St. Joseph as an act of faith and petitions his intercession, I see no reason why he couldn’t intercede and help sell the house. But it’s not “magic”.

Some people do take things in the wrong way. We see in the Book of Acts that a guy named Simon observed the apostles performing miracles and wanted to “buy” that ability from them. He didn’t get it that it was the faith that was at work and not some type of magic trick. In every age, there are those who similarly do not “get it.” They think of God as some divine Pez dispenser and if they just press the right buttons, the candy will come out. That mentality presumes that we can control God, which of course, is not possible. But God is faithful to His promises.

Much of it comes down to the interior disposition. Sometimes, people look at someone and assume they are being superstitious, when they are not. And I suppose some might look like they are being devotional when they are actually being superstitious.
 
newcalling, you said,
… I also know Catholics who wear these things as if the objects will ward off evil; like a magic charm or talisman.
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This refers to sacramentals or objects blessed in the name of Jesus and his church. Such as holy pictures, medals, scapulars, rosarys, and so on.

Here is an explaination of sacramentals and their effect on demons, Interview With An Exorcist, by Fr. Fortea.

“How can something material have an influence on something spiritual? It would seem that these two realms are so distinct, so independent, that something material should not have any effect on a demon, much less expel him. Actually, though, a material object - holy water, holy chrism, etc. - can torment or expel demons because the Church has given a spiritual power to this object by blessing it. In other words, the Church, with the power she has received from Christ, can join a spiritual effect to an object. Of course, the object itself has no power; rather, the power lies in that of Christ Himself which has been placed upon the particular object.” Page 66.

There are blessings the church gives to holy pictures, medals, scapulars, candles, water, salt, crucifixes, statues, and other objects.

Then there are blessings the church gives to secular things, such as pets, cars, homes, boats, and other things.

Then there are personal blessings the church gives to its people, by group or individual.

When the blessing is given by a priest of the church, this is the church’s blessing and is a more powerful blessing.

Other blessings we do are good, such as the sign of the cross, or asking a blessing on a trip before starting. Or our personal request for a blessing on any of our undertakings.

What good do they do? Well first of all, the devil does not like blessings of any kind and especially the blessings that have the seal of the church on them. So we use these liberally for this purpose.

But also when we use them, it is a sign our faith in the church’s power to help heal, deliver, guide, protect, and in general terms, an unbrella of God’s goodness over us. It is a living faith we express to God that we believe he is important in all aspects of our life, and that we want him right there with his divine hand upon us.

Blessed be God who comforts us in all our trials.
 
newcalling said:
I know that Catholicism changes depending on culture, but I have been curious about what would otherwise seem like magic. I’m not talking about the mystery of transubstantiation, nor am I talking about Santeria; something perhaps in between.

Examples: we know that saints have certain specialties, so to speak (patron saint of lost objects and such things) but some people, like my Catholic Gypsy family members (Gypsies from Romania) seem to take it pretty far like lighting a candle to certain saints at certain times will yield certain results. It’s almost like a spell.

Then there are things like a little statue of Saint Joseph being sold in the gift shop of the mission where my parish is. It has instructions for burying it upside down to guarantee the sale of a property. It’s not quite Santeria, but it almost seems to be magic based on the saints.

I’m just wondering the different thoughts on things like this. I am not sure what to think one way or the other. I believe that praying to the saints has power, but I’m not sure about the rest of it. I won’t judge those who believe in things like I described, and for now I am just observing and learning and sticking to prayer. I have heard discouragement from many in the church regarding thinking that there is magic in wearing crosses, rosaries etc other than as a spiritual reminder and handiness of a tool (such as a rosary) but I also know Catholics who wear these things as if the objects will ward off evil; like a magic charm or talisman.

I am a new Catholic, and I am just exploring different avenues of Catholicism. I hope that I didn’t touch on something too sensitive.
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Some of the things that people do within the Catholic faith is ridiculous, with burying a statue of St. Joseph being one of them. Without my knowledge my wife did that and 4 years later the house is still unsold - so much for that!

I cringe when stuff like that goes on and it cheapens our faith tradition and in my opinion goes over the line towards paganism/black magic. I have no problem with statues in our church’s as a reminder of those saintly people who have come before us, but parading them through the streets or treating these inanimate objects as something special is beyond the pale.
 
Tomdstone said:
I don;t quite see how that would work and why it would be necessary to bury the statue upside down. Is this a Roman Catholic gift shop? If so, perhaps you could ask the owner of the Catholic shop why you have to bury the statue upside down and not right side up?
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Personally, I feel it’s superstitious & a gimmick to sell these statues…but there is a prayer to be said for 9 days for St. Joseph’s intercession to Jesus. :signofcross:

Buried upside down to show he’s leaving this house.

“Once someone’s home sells, the custom holds, the statue should be dug up and put in a place of honor in the new home.”

I know many people who say it definitely works!
 
Folk in Ireland are great believers in the power of statues of the Infant of Prague to bring fine dry weather for weddings etc.
 
Catechism:

Superstition

2111 Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.41

Divination and magic

2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm#2111
 
Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers:

A reader writes:
Code: 
I’ve been a Catholic for 26 years now.  Over those years I have heard countless stories from Catholics, (usually devout) who tell about the time they were selling a house and how they buried a statue of St. Joseph (upside down at that!) in the yard in order to bring about a quick and successful sale.  Those who’ve tried this swear by it! Do you know anything about this?  Seems like pure unadulterated superstition to me.  Correct me if I’m wrong.
You need no correction.

While it is reasonable to ask St. Joseph for his intercession in helping buy or sell a home (finding housing for the holy family being one of his duties as head of the holy family), the idea of burying a statue of him upside down has no plausible connection to any patronly interest he might have in housing.

Because an efficacy is attributed to a religious act that has no apparent rational basis, the act qualifies as superstition or a perverse excess of religion. The Catechism notes that “Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion” (CCC 2110). That’s what we’re talking about here.

jimmyakin.com/2005/05/burying_a_st_jo.html
 
In further thought about this burying of St. Joseph …you can pray in your heart, privately, to God to sell your house…but

by buying a statue, burying it, saying the prayer for 9 days… seems to be like a sacramental or an outward sign that you are calling for Jesus to help you sell your house through the aid of St. Joseph. Maybe, :confused: 🤷
 
Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers :

A reader writes:
  • I’ve been a Catholic for 26 years now. Over those years I have heard countless stories from Catholics, (usually devout) who tell about the time they were selling a house and how they buried a statue of St. Joseph (upside down at that!) in the yard in order to bring about a quick and successful sale. Those who’ve tried this swear by it! Do you know anything about this? Seems like pure unadulterated superstition to me. Correct me if I’m wrong.*
You need no correction.

While it is reasonable to ask St. Joseph for his intercession in helping buy or sell a home (finding housing for the holy family being one of his duties as head of the holy family), the idea of burying a statue of him upside down has no plausible connection to any patronly interest he might have in housing.

Because an efficacy is attributed to a religious act that has no apparent rational basis, the act qualifies as superstition or a perverse excess of religion. The Catechism notes that “Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion” (CCC 2110). That’s what we’re talking about here.

jimmyakin.com/2005/05/burying_a_st_jo.html
 
truetofaith said:
In further thought about this burying of St. Joseph …you can pray in your heart, privately, to God to sell your house…but

by buying a statue, burying it, saying the prayer for 9 days… seems to be like a sacramental or an outward sign that you are calling for Jesus to help you sell your house through the aid of St. Joseph. Maybe, :confused: 🤷
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Seems to be a sacrilege to me. We need to just pray to God for his help and be done with it.
 
Bookcat said:
Jimmy Akin of Catholic Answers :

A reader writes:
  • I’ve been a Catholic for 26 years now. Over those years I have heard countless stories from Catholics, (usually devout) who tell about the time they were selling a house and how they buried a statue of St. Joseph (upside down at that!) in the yard in order to bring about a quick and successful sale. Those who’ve tried this swear by it! Do you know anything about this? Seems like pure unadulterated superstition to me. Correct me if I’m wrong.*
You need no correction.

While it is reasonable to ask St. Joseph for his intercession in helping buy or sell a home (finding housing for the holy family being one of his duties as head of the holy family), the idea of burying a statue of him upside down has no plausible connection to any patronly interest he might have in housing.

Because an efficacy is attributed to a religious act that has no apparent rational basis, the act qualifies as superstition or a perverse excess of religion. The Catechism notes that “Superstition in some sense represents a perverse excess of religion” (CCC 2110). That’s what we’re talking about here.

jimmyakin.com/2005/05/burying_a_st_jo.html
Click to expand...
Ah hah, you got it.! That Jimmy Akin really knows what he is talking about.
 
Rosebud77 said:
Folk in Ireland are great believers in the power of statues of the Infant of Prague to bring fine dry weather for weddings etc.
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Spanish folks also treasure and implore the Infant of Prague for finances.
 
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