Catholic marriage...STD?

[LB5]

I am still reading, and thank you for your post ThyKingdomCome. It meant a lot to me and it did resonate with me. I do have the same kinds of fears you had before you were married although I am positive my bf wouldn’t leave me over this. I think he is basically just your “typical guy” that is used to being around people and WITH people who don’t see any problem with pre-marital sex. But I know that ultimately he would completely respect deciding to be abstinent until marriage. Not just respect it, but be a willing participant, I think.

I feel like, it’s easy for a lot of older people to say, just stop, don’t do it anymore, but the younger people on this board can probably understand how difficult it is being in your 20’s and having been brought up in a world where the moment you step out of the house you’re inundated with sexual references, jokes, and talk. Even IN the house, on TV, the computer, etc. Especially when you’re in college. I guess it’s easier for some people to say no than others but I admit I was wrong when I started straying further from the church in college. Now that I’ve been out of school awhile and growing up and maturing and realizing what is truly important in life, it’s a long journey back from where I was. There are a lot of times I wish I grew up in my parents’ era when STD’s and hooking up and sex weren’t nearly as pervasive as they are in today’s society.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and insight.

 

[thomfra]

I remember Jason Evert saying something once about a couple where the wife was a virgin and the guy was not, they had a child, and the child was found to have genital warts in her THROAT, and then they discovered it was because the guy who had been sleeping around before had aquired the disease and it was passive on him, but when they had the child the disease was transmitted during conception or during the development to not only the mother but the child.

How exactly is this post helping the OP?

 

[thomfra]

** but the knowledge that I was actually offending God and throwing His Gifts back in His face made me feel so humiliated and sad **

Do you think God actually “gets offended” I just can’t understand how. I mean God is omnipotent. Why would he get offended?

 

[raes]

I am still reading, and thank you for your post ThyKingdomCome. It meant a lot to me and it did resonate with me. I do have the same kinds of fears you had before you were married although I am positive my bf wouldn’t leave me over this. I think he is basically just your “typical guy” that is used to being around people and WITH people who don’t see any problem with pre-marital sex. But I know that ultimately he would completely respect deciding to be abstinent until marriage. Not just respect it, but be a willing participant, I think.

I feel like, it’s easy for a lot of older people to say, just stop, don’t do it anymore, but the younger people on this board can probably understand how difficult it is being in your 20’s and having been brought up in a world where the moment you step out of the house you’re inundated with sexual references, jokes, and talk. Even IN the house, on TV, the computer, etc. Especially when you’re in college. I guess it’s easier for some people to say no than others but I admit I was wrong when I started straying further from the church in college. Now that I’ve been out of school awhile and growing up and maturing and realizing what is truly important in life, it’s a long journey back from where I was. There are a lot of times I wish I grew up in my parents’ era when STD’s and hooking up and sex weren’t nearly as pervasive as they are in today’s society.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and insight.

Hi LB5…
Just to give you some support (because I know that in today’s society, it is much needed), I myself am also a recent graduate from University, and have been in a very long term relationship with strives daily to live as Christ asked. I have been with him for over 5 years (we are now engaged to marry next spring), and yes, we have been tempted and have struggled with Chastity, but I am very happy to say that premarital sex was never an option. We discussed this up front, and early in the relationship.

It was never an option for us to live together, have ‘sleep overs’, etc.

It is not easy in this society… BUT IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE!!

Stay strong, and I also encourage frequent confession (weekly if need be).

No one said it would be easy, but it is well worth it for the reward here on earth and in heaven!

 

[thenewmrssears]

I am still reading, and thank you for your post ThyKingdomCome. It meant a lot to me and it did resonate with me. I do have the same kinds of fears you had before you were married although I am positive my bf wouldn’t leave me over this. I think he is basically just your “typical guy” that is used to being around people and WITH people who don’t see any problem with pre-marital sex. But I know that ultimately he would completely respect deciding to be abstinent until marriage. Not just respect it, but be a willing participant, I think.

I feel like, it’s easy for a lot of older people to say, just stop, don’t do it anymore, but the younger people on this board can probably understand how difficult it is being in your 20’s and having been brought up in a world where the moment you step out of the house you’re inundated with sexual references, jokes, and talk. Even IN the house, on TV, the computer, etc. Especially when you’re in college. I guess it’s easier for some people to say no than others but I admit I was wrong when I started straying further from the church in college. Now that I’ve been out of school awhile and growing up and maturing and realizing what is truly important in life, it’s a long journey back from where I was. There are a lot of times I wish I grew up in my parents’ era when STD’s and hooking up and sex weren’t nearly as pervasive as they are in today’s society.

Thanks again everyone for your advice and insight.

I am 24, so I am assuming we are probably about the same age give or take a few years.

Yes, we grew up in a culture that promotes pre-marital sex. In college, “hooking up” is the norm, and not doing so isn’t. College is the time that a lot of Catholics or members of any faith really fall from it, and some never return. We’re constantly shown images of sex, barely dressed people, the “Sex in the City” culture.

However, despite all of this, you are realizing that you are called to Catholic Church.

Just because culture tells us to do something doesn’t mean we should do it…or continue to do it. I completely understand the “in your face” sexuality that exists on college campuses. Been there, done that.

However, I made the decision to remain a virgin until my wedding day. Was it hard at times? Yes. Absolutely. Was I madly in love with Nathan way before we walked down that aisle? Of course. Were there days that I thought “hmmm, how bad would it really be? We love each other.” Sure. However, those thoughts lead me right into a confessional booth.

Catholicism or any faith isn’t supposed to be easy. We have to work at it everyday. We pray, go to Mass, ask for forgiveness, and repeat. There are days that we make terrible decisions, and there are days we make great ones.

You have to understand that society can’t dictate your faith. If we all let the media make decisions for us we would be a mess!

I am sure that once you start having sex it is hard to stop. However, at some point you have to realize that God dictates sex is between husband and wife. Whether you love each other dearly or not now is irrelavant. Sex once or twice a month is no better than sex every day outside of marriage.

I don’t want you to think I am being judgmental. I’m not. My concern is that you return to the Church and fully understand what God expects of you.

A lot of people struggle with this. You sure aren’t alone! I hope that you’ll pick up the two books I mentioned in my previous post and read them. They will forever change you.

God Bless, and I really do hope you figure this all out

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Do you think God actually “gets offended” I just can’t understand how. I mean God is omnipotent. Why would he get offended?

**

It is the way sin has been explained to me. That any impurity is an offense to God…which is why we cannot enter heaven until we are purified. I don’t mean offended in the human sense…I don’t believe God think less of us when we sin or that He holds grudges or wants to get even…just that sin hurts Him.

He wants us to be close to Him and spend eternity with Him, and for that we need to be pure. We need to do our best to achieve holiness here on earth, with frequent Confessions since we will all sin, and if we are to enter heaven we will need to be purified in Purgatory first (unless we achieve Sainthood of course).

**

 

[rinnie]

You know I understand how hard it is for younger kids today. Hey lets face it the older adults are just as bad. How many real role models are out there. But my daughter just turned 25 this week. Last year she was on the wrong road, and I knew it, and she knew it. I was at my wits end. So her and I made an agreement, she got a cd of the rosary and said it every morning going to work. Alone, in the car. I left it to the Blessed Mother and Jesus, My way surely wasnt working. Well one year later she is married in the Catholic Church. So my Love I will have to send you to the same place. Go to the Blessed Mother she will help you she loves you, and wants you to get it right. She will go to Jesus and help you get it right.

 

[Nordar]

Go to the Blessed Mother she will help you she loves you, and wants you to get it right. She will go to Jesus and help you get it right.

How true, many a soul has been brought to the son through the intervention of his Blessed Mother.

 

[kage_ar]

In the 70’s and 80’s EVERYONE was “hooking up” - that is what brought the harvest of STDs that are happening today.

Remember, there is nothing new under the sun, every generation thinks it is different for them - really, all that changes is the processor speed and hairstyles.

 

[Nordar]

In the 70’s and 80’s EVERYONE was “hooking up” - that is what brought the harvest of STDs that are happening today.

Remember, there is nothing new under the sun, every generation thinks it is different for them - really, all that changes is the processor speed and hairstyles.

Exactly I was just thinking the same thing. the 60’s were sex, drugs, rock and roll. That is when all the communes, hippies, free love was at it’s height.

 

[jmcrae]

I wish I grew up in my parents’ era when STD’s and hooking up and sex weren’t nearly as pervasive as they are in today’s society.

I don’t think there has ever been a time when being with the popular crowd didn’t mean “putting out” sexually.

All of us, in every generation, have had to make the choice to be unpopular with “the boys” or “the girls”, for the sake of our morals and our health.

Even back in the stone age (1970s) when I was growing up, the kids who were considered “popular” were the ones who were getting into drugs and having premarital sex. My grandmother told me it was the same when she was growing up, in the 1920s - you couldn’t get invited to a good party if you weren’t the sort of girl who would go upstairs and have sex with a guy.

As the French would say, “Plus ça change, plus c’est le même chose.” - the more things change, the more they stay the same. And when you’re 80, you won’t look back and regret missing any of those parties - honest, you won’t.

 

[rinnie]

I don’t think there has ever been a time when being with the popular crowd didn’t mean “putting out” sexually.

All of us, in every generation, have had to make the choice to be unpopular with “the boys” or “the girls”, for the sake of our morals and our health.

Even back in the stone age (1970s) when I was growing up, the kids who were considered “popular” were the ones who were getting into drugs and having premarital sex. My grandmother told me it was the same when she was growing up, in the 1920s - you couldn’t get invited to a good party if you weren’t the sort of girl who would go upstairs and have sex with a guy.

As the French would say, “Plus ça change, plus c’est le même chose.” - the more things change, the more they stay the same. And when you’re 80, you won’t look back and regret missing any of those parties - honest, you won’t.

My Aunt Mary more or less told me the same thing, she said things never changed its just we have TV and everything now just putting in out in the open. She said People lived together for years because of SS and stuff. She said they just lied back then.

She said today people are just more open about it. She said it was the same 80 years ago. Its was just back woods and everyone just turned the other way. Kept the secrets.

 

[MarksWife]

Look, too many of us can say we’ve been where you are and have had to learn the hard way how close we came to dying with a mortal sin on our souls.

The fact is what you are doing with full knowledge and consent is a mortal sin. What kind of Christians would be not to warn you strongly that you must repent and stop committing this sin?!

It’s like you’re standing on the train tracks and a train is hurtling towards you while you’re frozen in place. Should we stand on the side and tell you consolingly that it would be a really awesome idea if you were to get off the tracks?

Or do you think it would make more sense to jump onto the tracks and push you off?! Would you be angry that you were pushed so that your life could be saved?

I’ve been where you are. I can only surmise that you are afraid of saying “no” to your boyfriend as you’ve been saying “yes” all this time. Been there, done that. I wish I’d never ever given in. I have little regretful daydreams sometimes about how I’d like to do the whole thing over again, and keep my virtue intact.

But by the grace of God…we’ve been forgiven and we’ve been married 18 1/2 years.

About our culture, yes it’s a filth pit. Stop watching junk TV and movies. Stop looking at “fashion” and women’s magazines. Replace worldly pursuits with Catholic activities, prayer, mass, reading spiritual books.

All things all possible with God. You cannot do this alone, you are right about that. You need God’s strength holding you firm in your faith.

Listen LB5, if deep down inside what you’re really worried about is that your boyfriend won’t stay with you if you actually practice your faith…then better to learn now what he’s all about.

God Bless You Don’t worry, our Lord is there for you! He promised!

Lisa

 

[Lady_D_I]

No the writer is correct. Part of the treatment plan for a woman with known vaginal warts or HPV is a planned C-section so the child will not be at risk of infection going through the vaginal canal.

Just further clarification. Typically, c-section is not necessary unless warts are blocking the birth canal or there is a risk of excessive bleeding.
What about pregnancy and genital warts?
CDC STD Tx Guidcelines

 

[marietta]

LB5:

It isn’t the past that needs to be overcome, it’s the present. Is your love for your fiance greater than your love for God?

newbetx:

St. Ignatius on South Congress? Our Lady of Guadalupe on the east side?

marietta

 

[LittleDeb]

I do need to pop in and clarify a piece of misinformation. Condoms do not, repeat do not, really prevent the spread of herpes. (Simplex I or II.) The only thing that lessens your chance is attempting absolutely no contact during an outbreak. Please be aware that an outbreak can be present with “little or no visible signs or symptoms.” as the ad says. The outbreak is there, it just takes an absolute vigilance of knowing one’s own body to detect it.

Both types can be spread from a sore invisible to the naked eye. Simplex II is most commonly on the lower shaft, the underside of the scrotum, or the outer labia when it is spread by people who believe they are “preventing it” with a condom. The idea that condoms help prevent the spread of herpes is just another of the lies that Satan has spread. The sores don’t just hang out in one spot. The ones you know of mask the ones you don’t. Read the fine print on the websites. There is no real research that says condoms help. I don’t see any herpes-free volunteers lining up for that particular case study! The experts are only guessing based on patient surveys.

Condoms are not the answer, even in marriage. * If* the disease were deadly (like HIV) as to warrant the use of a flimsy piece of latex, then that flimsy piece of latex is not enough. A controlled environment is also a necessity. A technician putting on silicon or latex gloves to draw blood from an AIDS patient is a controlled environment. Sexual intercourse is anything but a “controlled environment.” (Gosh I hope not! )

Herpes is not a death sentence. Herpes within marriage is currently manageable. Very inconvenient, yes. Frightening, painful, and just plain awful, you bet! But condoms are not the answer. They lull people into a false sense of security. If the question is, “Do we need a condom?” The answer is an emphatic, “ABSTAIN.” There is no security in condoms. Faith in God, periodic abstinence, and suppression therapy, (in that order) is the only answer.

Before anyone even tries to declare ME as judgmental or “not up on the latest research,” I will sign my post this way:

Signed, Rape survivor - 18.5 years; Herpes survivor - 18.5 years.
And I’ve never given it to anyone even during my horrible years of promiscuity…

P.S. It was a date rape, and yes he wore a condom, and yes it stayed intact.

 

[LB5]

Thanks, LittleDeb. I’m sorry for what you’ve been through but those things are comforting to know. I have HSV-1 “down there” which as I explained in another post, has manifested itself very mildly. I’ve only ever had one incidence of an “open sore” as people would commonly imagine it–any other time I felt I was having an outbreak, it’s seemed to only progress to looking like a tiny cut down there. I am good at detecting when I am getting one, which is not very often, and decreasing more and more over time. I guess I am lucky in that respect. After reading your post especially it’s good to know that we can go without condoms and still be relatively “safe” as far as herpes is concerned.

I appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers, God bless you all!

 

[LittleDeb]

ThyKingomCome: Awesome post! You said it!

If I may now humbly add to it, I hope you will forgive me for using it as a foundation.

LB5: I forgot to say in my last post, “Welcome to CAF.”

So here is some more practical advice from someone who has nearly literally walked in your shoes. All we lack now is an exchange of footwear. I am a size 6 and a half.

10.) Your behavior is a habit. Yes, get to Confession and confess it. THEN get to Confession and start confessing those things that lead you to the behavior. Go monthly.

9.) Read up on periodic continence. You have to have self control. This is an absolute must with herpes. You must be willing to embrace total continence (abstinence.) Only then can you pray that you won’t have to.

8.) Learn NFP. Get to a class now, if they will let you take it before you are engaged. Learning NFP started my DH and me out of pre-marital sex.

7.) Pray for your own understanding of the difference between God’s direct will and His permissive will. He isn’t “teaching you a lesson” with the herpes. He is allowing you to learn a lesson from the herpes. Big difference. He wanted you to learn the lesson without the pain, but free will happened instead.

6.) Learn authentic Church teaching on condoms. Read the documents. If someone says, “Well so and so says that condoms are allowed for HIV.” Say back to them, “Prove it.” Condoms are a dead end. The Church, in Her infinite wisdom knows why. Find out.

5.) Sacraments, Sacraments, Sacraments.

4.) Pray. Before marriage, if you start to have sex, start praying, right then and there. God will help you stop. Continue praying before sex throughout your marriage. God will tell you ‘yes’ or ‘not right now.’

3.) After you are married, pray during sex. All I can say is WOW!!

2.) Four words. Theology of the Body Learn it, live it, love it. It will help you with how you feel about yourself and your relationship to men.

1.) Know that you are created in God’s own image. Know the Father as ‘Abba,’ “Daddy.” Fall in love with the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Bridegroom Himself, Jesus. Make Him your husband first, and an earthly one will follow suit. Listen to the Holy Spirit. His message is always filled with real love and hope.

Yes, there are some harsh answers in this thread. I would have paid anything to have had someone be as “harsh” with me. It would have hurt a whole lot less than the path I took.

 

[LittleDeb]

After reading your post especially it’s good to know that we can go without condoms and still be relatively “safe” as far as herpes is concerned.

Please remember that it is moral advice and not medical advice. There are no guarantees.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

ThyKingomCome: Awesome post! You said it!

If I may now humbly add to it, I hope you will forgive me for using it as a foundation.

LB5: I forgot to say in my last post, “Welcome to CAF.”

So here is some more practical advice from someone who has nearly literally walked in your shoes. All we lack now is an exchange of footwear. I am a size 6 and a half.

10.) Your behavior is a habit. Yes, get to Confession and confess it. THEN get to Confession and start confessing those things that lead you to the behavior. Go monthly.

9.) Read up on periodic continence. You have to have self control. This is an absolute must with herpes. You must be willing to embrace total continence (abstinence.) Only then can you pray that you won’t have to.

8.) Learn NFP. Get to a class now, if they will let you take it before you are engaged. Learning NFP started my DH and me out of pre-marital sex.

7.) Pray for your own understanding of the difference between God’s direct will and His permissive will. He isn’t “teaching you a lesson” with the herpes. He is allowing you to learn a lesson from the herpes. Big difference. He wanted you to learn the lesson without the pain, but free will happened instead.

6.) Learn authentic Church teaching on condoms. Read the documents. If someone says, “Well so and so says that condoms are allowed for HIV.” Say back to them, “Prove it.” Condoms are a dead end. The Church, in Her infinite wisdom knows why. Find out.

5.) Sacraments, Sacraments, Sacraments.

4.) Pray. Before marriage, if you start to have sex, start praying, right then and there. God will help you stop. Continue praying before sex throughout your marriage. God will tell you ‘yes’ or ‘not right now.’

3.) After you are married, pray during sex. All I can say is WOW!!

2.) Four words. Theology of the Body Learn it, live it, love it. It will help you with how you feel about yourself and your relationship to men.

1.) Know that you are created in God’s own image. Know the Father as ‘Abba,’ “Daddy.” Fall in love with the second person of the Holy Trinity, the Bridegroom Himself, Jesus. Make Him your husband first, and an earthly one will follow suit. Listen to the Holy Spirit. His message is always filled with real love and hope.

Yes, there are some harsh answers in this thread. I would have paid anything to have had someone be as “harsh” with me. It would have hurt a whole lot less than the path I took.

Amazing post (sitting here with tears in my eyes:bighanky. You are a beautiful person for sharing something so profound and “real”.