Catholic marriage without state recognition

[puzzleannie]

I’m not trying to be argumentative here, but an honest question: why not just have a prenuptial agreement if that’s the main concern?

because that would probably invalidate the marriage since it is presumptive of divorce among other eventualities. The matter of inheritance can easily be resolved by common estate planning tools. The reason older couples often ask this question is because one or both will loose a deceased spouse’s pension or SS if they remarry. and no the Church in a country where the priest is also the legal witness of the marriage will not allow the sacrament to be used to circumvent just civil laws. Please note the adjective “just”. There may be times, places and situations such as persecutions where the Church may have to marry Catholics in secret but that is not the situation discussed here. and yes the state does have the God-given authority to regulate marriage for the reasons that have always pertained, the protection of the family, the cornerstone of society. when the civil laws deviate from that authority and begin attacking the family we may be reaching the situation where “just law” no longer exists and that would be another story.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

when the civil laws deviate from that authority and begin attacking the family we may be reaching the situation where “just law” no longer exists and that would be another story.

Isn’t that already happening in many western countries? I wonder how long before the church allows civil disobedience

 

[Phemie]

because that would probably invalidate the marriage since it is presumptive of divorce among other eventualities. The matter of inheritance can easily be resolved by common estate planning tools.

Unfortunately, in Quebec that cannot happen when we are talking about what is called ‘family property’. No amount of estate planning can change the entitlement of a spouse to 50% of that. All that the children of a previous marriage can hope for is that the new spouse has a conscience and gives up his/her entitlement upon the death of their parent if he/she doesn’t need it. In order to keep in the family property that’s been handed down for generations, older couples opt to not remarry but instead just move in together.

 

[puzzleannie]

Unfortunately, in Quebec that cannot happen when we are talking about what is called ‘family property’. No amount of estate planning can change the entitlement of a spouse to 50% of that. All that the children of a previous marriage can hope for is that the new spouse has a conscience and gives up his/her entitlement upon the death of their parent if he/she doesn’t need it. In order to keep in the family property that’s been handed down for generations, older couples opt to not remarry but instead just move in together.

yes most US states also have a dower right but there is a provision for getting consent of family members to get around it, and trusts and other agreements can also do this. a couple willing to sin to this extent is not really interested in the sacrament in any case so why would they even ask for it?

but yes in western society we are rapidly reaching a point where the civil government has so abused its authority that the Church may have to opt out of being an agent in regard to marriage, and probably also give up its tax exempt status where it exists.

 

[CoffeeHound]

because that would probably invalidate the marriage since it is presumptive of divorce among other eventualities.

How does it presume divorce to protect your assets? Does it presume a fire to buy homeowners insurance?

 

[puzzleannie]

How does it presume divorce to protect your assets? Does it presume a fire to buy homeowners insurance?

actually yes to the insurance question. as has been discussed many times before with relevant authority cites, a prenup while it can also deal with inheritance by definition provides for splitting assets in case of divorce, so if that possibility is even admitted it can be enough to invalidate a marriage because it implies full consent and intent are lacking. not really the issue of this thread, try liturgy and sacraments for more complete discussion.

 

[HouseArrest]

actually yes to the insurance question. as has been discussed many times before with relevant authority cites, a prenup while it can also deal with inheritance by definition provides for splitting assets in case of divorce, so if that possibility is even admitted it can be enough to invalidate a marriage because it implies full consent and intent are lacking. not really the issue of this thread, try liturgy and sacraments for more complete discussion.

Couldn’t the prenup state “in the event of death”…?

 

[FirstCalled]

Isn’t that already happening in many western countries? I wonder how long before the church allows civil disobedience

One Spanish Archbishop appears to promote civil disobedience in regard to the new abortion law.

*“Let’s be clear: this law is not a law, although it is presented as such by some politicians and lawmakers. It is no law because nobody has the right to take the life of an innocent human being. For this reason it is not obligatory. Moreover, it demands direct opposition without distinction,” the archbishop said in a letter.
*

catholicnewsagency.com/news/spanish-archbishop-calls-for-civil-disobedience-of-new-abortion-law/

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Couldn’t the prenup state “in the event of death”…?

I think one could stipilate it that way…, not in the event of divorce.