Catholic marrying a Protestant

[Jimdandy]

For the engaged couples:

Whoever you are and whatever you believe- in your relationship promise each other to keep God first in your life and to always love your neighbors and then live those promises.

Baptized Catholics must marry in the CC or receive a dispensation from their Bishop-usu not difficult to obtain if the Catholic is in good standing in their own church.

If you need to be registered in a Church and you are attending regularly ask to see if you could list your mum’s address to become a member there-and promise to keep supporting the Parrish in your own neighborhood.

Be polite, be persistent with a reluctant Pastor-give him time to get to know you and your future spouse.

Best wishes.

 

[rwoehmke]

I think that depends where the Catholic is getting married. In Canada there is no expectation that the Catholic pastor will attend and it is the Catholic party’s responsibility to notify his/her parish that the marriage has in fact taken place.

I think this may vary some by diocese. It is usually true that once the Bishop gives the dispensation to marry outside the Catholic Form a priest or deacon’s presence is not required, but is permissible.

Also when marrying a non-Catholic or non-Christian the promise is not to raise any children Catholic, but to do ones best to do so.

When my Mom and Dad were married both had to promise to raise any children Catholic. That was in 1935 when the mixed marriages were performed in the rectory or vestibule of the church. My Mom always said though she loved my dad dearly till the day she died, that her unfulfilled wish was that he had been or would have become a Catholic. She felt that the mixed religions created a space in the relationship that could not be bridged.

My Dad was a rather luke warm Lutheran and I suspect when both parties are very strong in their particular Faith that such a marriage would be much more difficult.

As far as a priest being unable to marry you because he was not your pastor, that often happens when one lives outside the parish boundary and has never registered as a parishioner in that parish. In most dioceses one can register in whatever parish one regularly attends. When you don’t it creates problems with both weddings and funerals.

 

[Phemie]

I think this may vary some by diocese. It is usually true that once the Bishop gives the dispensation to marry outside the Catholic Form a priest or deacon’s presence is not required, but is permissible.

Also when marrying a non-Catholic or non-Christian the promise is not to raise any children Catholic, but to do ones best to do so.

When my Mom and Dad were married both had to promise to raise any children Catholic.

DH had to promise that too when we got married in 1975. Luckily that was something we had already discussed and agreed on fairly early in the relationship. We had a regular wedding within a Liturgy of the Word in the church but my cousin, who married about 20 years before I did, had to get married in the sacristy because she married an Anglican.

Today, at least in Canada, the argument is that the non-Catholic has as much right to transmit his/her faith to the children as the Catholic does and that that is to be respected. The Catholic is to do everything in his/her power to raise the children Catholic but not to the detriment of the marriage.

Personally, I can’t see why it would be better for a child to be baptized Catholic and never again see the inside of a church until it’s time for first Communion (something we see way too often) than to be baptized in the Anglican or Lutheran Church and be catechized and in Church every week. Yes, I know, Communion but when they only show up for that once and then never darken the door again…

 

[Spiller]

**I am an Anglican and therefore a catholic. **I was once engaged to a Roman Catholic and was suitably brain washed about what I had to do in order to marry my finacee. However and for other reasons the marriage did not take place.

[Edited]

The Catholic Church views Anglicans as a denomination of Protestantism…

 

[Etonite]

The it must either insular or ill-informed to claim this exclusivity…

Millions of Anglicans profess their belief in “one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. Are you saying that we must edit the Creed?

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

The it must either insular or ill-informed to claim this exclusivity…

Millions of Anglicans profess their belief in “one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. Are you saying that we must edit the Creed?

WAY off topic, my friend!

Please open another thread in Non-Catholic Religions if you wish to debate the ecclesial community founded by Henry VIII, that currently does not have alligiance to the Holy Father, nor valid apostolic succession, nor a valid Eucharist.

 

[ladybon]

It seems there are many views regarding what one must do in order for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic. My problem concerns this very subject. However, I didn’t see it addressed in the threads. My daughter is getting married at the end of August to a non-Catholic who was raised as a Lutheran, but hasn’t attended the Lutheran church in many years. However, he is a Christian and doesn’t seem to have a problem with my daughter and her 2 sons from a previous marriage attending the Catholic Church. My daughter’s first marriage was to a Lutheran and they were married in the Lutheran Church. She wants her upcoming marriage to be a Catholic marriage, and has been in contact with her parish priest since February, 5 months ago. As of now, she still doesn’t have permission from the diocese to get married in the Church. Therefore, she isn’t even able to order invitations. She has been following all the instructions of her parish priest regarding everything that is needed in order to get permission from the diocese. She has been frustrated for a long time now because the parish priest does not answer her phone calls, causing this process to take much longer than it should. One of the things she had to do was to bring 2 witnesses to the parish priest who would sign an affidavit that stated her first marriage had never been blessed by the Catholic Church. This was done 2 months ago and her priest told her the papers would be sent to the diocese and the diocese would grant the permission. However, after a few weeks of waiting and not receiving any information, she found out from her first husband that he had received a letter from the diocese, which he never opened because he thought it was “junk mail”. If my daughter had known that her first husband would also have to fill out a form stating that their marriage had never been blessed by the Catholic Church, she would have told him to watch for it. Why weren’t the statements of her 2 witnesses (her mother and her mother’s friend, who had also been at the first marriage) sufficient? As soon as she found out that her ex-husband had gotten mail from the diocese and had thrown it away, she again tried to contact her parish priest and, true to form, has left numerous messages for him to PLEASE call her. So far she has not heard from him. Her last message to him on his voice mail was that, if she doesn’t get the permission she needs from the diocese, she will have to make arrangements to get married by a non-Catholic minister or by a judge because she has to get invitations printed (requiring time and place of the wedding itself) and mailed.

My daughter is active in that parish, her 2 boys attend CCD classes, she has taught CCD classes in the past, the boys both received their First Communion in the parish, and her oldest will be confirmed in that parish in 2009. Why does the Church make it so difficult for a Catholic who wants to receive the Sacrament of Matrimony, especially when the Church does not recognize her first marriage in the Lutheran Church? This situation has created tremendous stress. I hope someone can explain this all to me. I also want my daughter’s wedding to be blessed by the Church, but the Church is causing both of us to question these brick walls.

 

[THurifer2]

Her last message to him on his voice mail was that, if she doesn’t get the permission she needs from the diocese, she will have to make arrangements to get married by a non-Catholic minister or by a judge because she has to get invitations printed (requiring time and place of the wedding itself) and mailed.
This situation has created tremendous stress. I hope someone can explain this all to me. I also want my daughter’s wedding to be blessed by the Church, but the Church is causing both of us to question these brick walls.

Oh yes indeed of course those invites are of major importance. In fact likely more important than knowing if she is about to commit adultery by marring “twice”. If you daughter does not get her first marriage declared null than that is exactly what she will be doing.

PRIORITIES…PRIORITIES.

 

[ladybon]

Hello THURifer2:

I find it curious that you neglected to address the cavalier attitude of her parish priest in this scenario. Yes, the invitations are an important element of the marriage, particulary when 95% of your family lives in other states, and when the date of the marriage was set over a year ago, and having to find a place to hold the reception to ensure its availability, etc., etc., etc. She went to her parish priest in FEBRUARY, more than adequate time to get all the requirements met, IF the priest had been available to her, kept appointments they had set up, etc., etc. I was one of the 2 witnesses that signed a statement, in front of the priest, that her first marriage in the Lutheran Church had never been blessed by the Catholic Church. In fact, it took weeks for him to respond to her calls to set a time and place for her witnesses to meet with him. When a date and time were finally set, he wasn’t even at the rectory!! We waited for 5 HOURS before he finally showed up, and he admitted he had “forgotten” about it. We also found out that her witnesses could have gone to ANY Catholic Church to sign these statements, but her priest never told her that. If he had, the statements could have been sent to the diocese MUCH SOONER.

I’m sorry you missed the entire point of the frustration brought on by the way her priest has mishandled all of this. Also, she isn’t after an annulment, since her first marriage in a Lutheran Church supposedly isn’t even recognized by the Catholic Church!!! And, even though some of the requirements were inconvenient, she was willing to do what she had to do to be married by a Catholic priest. Again, the frustration is due to the way the priest continually dropped the ball.

I guess maybe you had to have walked in her shoes for the past 5 months in order to understand the problem.

God bless…

 

[Phemie]

You’re right that the priest dropped the ball on this one, it should have been as simple as checking her record of baptism and then contacting the diocese where she lived at the time of the Lutheran wedding to see if a dispensation from canonical form had been petitioned for &/or granted. No notation of marriage in her baptismal record and no record of a dispensation having been granted would pretty much clinch that it was an invalid marriage.

Not sure what it means that they are looking for witnesses that it was ‘never blessed by the Catholic Church’ – no such blessing would have been necessary if a dispensation had been granted and if it HAD been blessed (I’m assuming they mean a convalidation) it should have been entered in her baptismal record. Unfortunately, if she wanted to get married in the Church, all those things should have been done before she set the date.

There is nothing more frustrating than having a bride and groom show up and tell the priest that they are getting married on “THIS DATE”. The first step should be to meet with the priest and then set the date.

 

[Just_Lurking]

One of the things she had to do was to bring 2 witnesses to the parish priest who would sign an affidavit that stated her first marriage had never been blessed by the Catholic Church.

I understand the concept of a witness to something that did happen, but what does it mean to be a witness to something that didn’t happen? What are the witnesses supposed to swear to, that they continuously followed the couple around day and night so there was no way they could have gone off and convalidated the marriage?

 

[AMDGtoo]

I’m sorry you missed the entire point of the frustration brought on by the way her priest has mishandled all of this. Also, she isn’t after an annulment, since her first marriage in a Lutheran Church supposedly isn’t even recognized by the Catholic Church!!! And, even though some of the requirements were inconvenient, she was willing to do what she had to do to be married by a Catholic priest. Again, the frustration is due to the way the priest continually dropped the ball.

I guess maybe you had to have walked in her shoes for the past 5 months in order to understand the problem.

I am sorry for your frustration and the fact that your appointments with your parish priest were a lot less than correct, but Thurifer2 is right. Whether or not your daughter has a valid marriage and remains a Catholic in good standing is infinitely more important than the invitations. And yes, your daughter needs to have to get a Decree of Nullity concerning her first marriage before she can attempt another–if she wants to be able to recieve the Eucharist. (The Catholic Church considers ALL marriages valid until proven otherwise and she does expect all her members to abide by the marriage laws of the Church–which are actually Jesus’ rules. Failure to do so means that the person will not be able to receive Communion because the person is actually not in union with the Church.)

It’s hindsight now, but it looks like your daughter should have read up about the Sacrament of Marriage and gotten that Decree before even “setting her marriage date”. It looks like more than one person “dropped the ball”.

So sorry.

 

[1ke]

I find it curious that you neglected to address the cavalier attitude of her parish priest in this scenario. Yes, the invitations are an important element of the marriage, particulary when 95% of your family lives in other states, and when the date of the marriage was set over a year ago,

If you are looking for sympathy you aren’t going to get any.

She should not have set a date before she had in her hand her acknowledgement from the diocese that she is **free **to marry.

She put the cart before the horse. That is totally HER fault.

Her priest is likely not being “cavalier” but rather is “busy”. Most priests are ministering to very large congregations.

So, put your priorities in order. Invitations are NOT the priority.

and having to find a place to hold the reception to ensure its availability, etc., etc., etc. She went to her parish priest in FEBRUARY, more than adequate time to get all the requirements met,

This is absolutely not true. You don’t know how long these things take and a couple of months may NOT be adequate. If all the proofs regarding her lack of form cannot be ascertained, then a full tribunal investigation may be necessary.

I’m sorry you missed the entire point of the frustration brought on by the way her priest has mishandled all of this. Also, she isn’t after an annulment, since her first marriage in a Lutheran Church supposedly isn’t even recognized by the Catholic Church!!! And, even though some of the requirements were inconvenient, she was willing to do what she had to do to be married by a Catholic priest. Again, the frustration is due to the way the priest continually dropped the ball.

I guess maybe you had to have walked in her shoes for the past 5 months in order to understand the problem.

God bless…

Well, her threat to go have her marriage outside the Church is rather telling regarding the true priority she places on her faith.

 

[1ke]

I understand the concept of a witness to something that did happen, but what does it mean to be a witness to something that didn’t happen? What are the witnesses supposed to swear to, that they continuously followed the couple around day and night so there was no way they could have gone off and convalidated the marriage?

I’ve never heard of this either.

Wouldn’t the diocese request the Sacramental records, marriage license, and divorce decree as the proof?

 

[Phemie]

The Catholic Church considers ALL marriages valid until proven otherwise
So sorry.

No, the Catholic Church does not consider ALL marriages valid until proven otherwise. The marriage of Catholic in a Lutheran Church without a dispensation from canonical form is NOT presumed valid and technically no decree of nullity is needed although most dioceses will submit the facts to the Marriage Tribunal to be on the safe side.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Wouldn’t the diocese request the Sacramental records, marriage license, and divorce decree as the proof?

That would make much more sense.

 

[AMDGtoo]

No, the Catholic Church does not consider ALL marriages valid until proven otherwise. The marriage of Catholic in a Lutheran Church without a dispensation from canonical form is NOT presumed valid and technically no decree of nullity is needed although most dioceses will submit the facts to the Marriage Tribunal to be on the safe side.

I have to disagree on this. My mother “fell-in-love” and had one of those “quick” marriages at a local Protestant church. She had never even asked for a dispensation. Anyway, after her civil divorce, she came to her senses and spoke to a priest about returning to her Catholic Faith. They considered the marriage valid since it was between two Baptized Christians and had been performed by a Christian minister. The priest told her to get a “Decree of Nullity”. In my mother’s case, it was not so she could marry again as she wasn’t even dating at the time. (I believe that I was about 12 at the time, and I know that it didn’t take long–she just had to submit her Baptism record and her Marriage certificate to the tribunal, and in a matter of weeks, she had her “Decree of Nullity”. I guess the reason for the speed was because there didn’t have to be a long drawn out investigation–without the “dispensation” noted, the Decree was practically “rubber stamped”.

 

[EasterJoy]

I was married to a protestant for 36 years. I hope you realize this is just the begin of your life and your spirt being split in 2 places. Your whole married life will be split. You will never truly have a Catholic home. It will be very hard for your children to be wholly Catholic. 1 of my children embrassed the whole Catholic Church, was married in the church and has a Catholic husband. but sad to say 2 did not. they did not embrace anything. they went to Catholic School and were brought up Catholic but told me recently they did not see the point. Dad was not Catholic and seemed to be doing OK. Think very hard about the conflict you seem to be having already and you are not even married yet. There are alot of very good mixed marriages and they last forever but look at what it does to the kids. I will not repeat that again.I want a totally Catholic home.You can only get that from a totally Catholic marriage. God Bess

I hate it that this is true, but you can’t even be guaranteed a totally Catholic home if you marry a Catholic! Even in a very Catholic home, some of the kids sometimes leave the Church for a time, sometimes for good. Very often, it is because they meet a non-Catholic and marry them, but it can be any of a number of things.

Having said that, I’m married to one of the most totally supportive non-Catholic spouses that ever was, a gem of a man who actively encourages me to practice the faith, who actively teaches our kids the faith (not as in “this what the Church teaches” but as in “this is what is”) and it is still hard.

Be very certain that your spouse is willing to *make sacrifices *to see to it that you practice the faith and bring your children up in it, decide ahead of time what you are going to do when there are conflicts, and seriously ask yourself if you are willing to live the faith without the support of someone who lives it with you. You owe that much to both of you, not to mention your kids.

 

[ladybon]

Thanks to all of you for your (name removed by moderator)ut on this. Some of you are not correct when you say the Church considers ALL marriages to be valid. I spent 12 years in Catholic schools, every one of those years a daily religion class was a part of the curiculum, and it was very clear that if a Catholic were to marry in a non-Catholic church, that marriage would not be recognized by the Church!! Therefore, in the eyes of the Church, the marriage never happened. However, while she was still married to and living with her husband, she would have been guilty of having sex “out of wedlock”. If, after she divorced her husband and confessed her sins, she would be forgiven, just like anyone else.

To those of you who believe that her Baptismal Certificate, Marriage License (to Lutheran husband), and divorce papers, along with a statement from her mother that the marriage had never been blessed by the Church, should have been more than sufficient proof, I absolutely agree with you. Not only did she provide her Baptismal Certificate, but her fiancee also had to provide his, which he did, even though his was a non-Catholic baptism.

Again, this process does not take this long!!! The priest told her 2 months ago, in my presence, that everything is finished, the necessary paperwork would be sent to the diocese (by him!), and she should have their OK within a couple of weeks. She had done everything she had been told to do, with plenty of time to spare. In fact, her unanswered phone calls and the scheduled meetings that the priest didn’t show up for, caused this process to take MUCH longer than it should have.

 

[Phemie]

I have to disagree on this. My mother “fell-in-love” and had one of those “quick” marriages at a local Protestant church. She had never even asked for a dispensation. Anyway, after her civil divorce, she came to her senses and spoke to a priest about returning to her Catholic Faith. They considered the marriage valid since it was between two Baptized Christians and had been performed by a Christian minister. The priest told her to get a “Decree of Nullity”. In my mother’s case, it was not so she could marry again as she wasn’t even dating at the time. (I believe that I was about 12 at the time, and I know that it didn’t take long–she just had to submit her Baptism record and her Marriage certificate to the tribunal, and in a matter of weeks, she had her “Decree of Nullity”. I guess the reason for the speed was because there didn’t have to be a long drawn out investigation–without the “dispensation” noted, the Decree was practically “rubber stamped”.

That may be what they did in her case but I know that in my diocese all that would have been required is for the priest to write down all the details of the first wedding and place in her file with the documents pertaining to that marriage. No need to submit it to the Tribunal since the marriage isn’t presumed valid in the first place. Canon Law is clear about which marriages are presumed valid and a Catholic married outside the Catholic Church without a dispensation doesn’t enjoy that presumption. Such a marriage would have to be proven valid rather than have to be proven invalid.

That said, it seems that most dioceses will submit such cases to the Tribunal ‘just in case’.