Catholic Martyrs of the Protestant Reformation?

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GKC said:
To your credit, and to theirs, in different ways, And sure, it looks like a little balance and perspective is required.

I like a gentleman who preached a couple of sermons at St. Mary the Virgin, back in the day.

GKC
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As it’s Oxford, do I guess we’re in the bells and smells department?
 
GKC said:
The man I was referring to drifted in the Anglo-Catholic direction, himself.

GKC
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Ending up as a cardinal would be drifting even further; so can I in my ignorance guess the poet Keble?
 
This is a very decisive topic. Wouldn’t it be better to think of more recent martyrs for Christianity? Wasn’t the 20th century the worst for Christians being killed? I fear this century will break new records. The Christians in northern Iraq are in a horrible position right now. They could use combined prayers from both Catholics and Protestants. One Body of Christ.
 
Picky_Picky said:
Ending up as a cardinal would be drifting even further; so can I in my ignorance guess the poet Keble?
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Nope. But I see your drift.

My man preached at St Mary the Virgin around WWII. Two published sermons resulted.

GKC
 
I don’t think that the Catholic Martyrs of the Vendee have been mentioned yet. Up to 170,000 men, including many Catholic priests, as well as women, children and elderly were killed by Anti-Catholic military forces, much of the killing under the orders of Robspierre (sp?)

The Vendee, in France, were primarily peasants who refused to give up their Catholic Faith, and they were willing to fight to defend it, which happened about 1793. Though we should forgive the perpetrators of this crime, so that we will not become bitter and angry, it’s good to remember that they were victims of the revolution.

Here’s a 28 minute youtube video that explains what happened. It’s rather unpleasant, though:

youtube.com/watch?v=OPz25qxOD3A
 
Denise1957 said:
I don’t think that the Catholic Martyrs of the Vendee have been mentioned yet. Up to 170,000 men, including many Catholic priests, as well as women, children and elderly were killed by Anti-Catholic military forces, much of the killing under the orders of Robspierre (sp?)

The Vendee, in France, were primarily peasants who refused to give up their Catholic Faith, and they were willing to fight to defend it, which happened about 1793. Though we should forgive the perpetrators of this crime, so that we will not become bitter and angry, it’s good to remember that they were victims of the revolution.
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The Vendee was dreadful, but not part of the Protestant Reformation.
 
Novocastrian said:
It answered the question as asked, and provided just a little context.
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I must admit that I found myself thinking that it is the willingness to see only one side of the story which perpetuates such sectarian violence. Balance is vital.
 
Can anyone answer the actual question?
Who are some martyrs of the Protestant Reformation that were not killed in England?
Were there any?
Lutherans never killed any Catholics in Germany?
 
MTDominic said:
Can anyone answer the actual question?
Who are some martyrs of the Protestant Reformation that were not killed in England?
Were there any?
Lutherans never killed any Catholics in Germany?
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Justus van Schoonhoven and other Carthusian monks were killed by Dutch rebels in 1572 for religious reasons.

There were also some Catholic deaths in riots in Lyons, and no doubt in other places. At least one layperson was killed defending the Blessed Sacrament.

But there weren’t many such deaths on the Continent.

The lopsided nature of persecution (with the major exception of England) in the sixteenth century obviously reflects badly on Catholicism in one sense, but it is in part evidence of the fact that no Protestant could claim with a straight face that Catholics were heretics. A heretic was someone who had departed from traditional teaching. Hence, when Catholics were killed they were killed as traitors or in war/riots. They were not burned at the stake as heretics. Protestants did persecute Catholicism in other ways. There was a lot of violence against monasteries, clergy, and the Blessed Sacrament, and as noted above this sometimes turned lethal.

Oh, and as for Germany–very few people other than Anabaptists were executed in Germany as heretics. One factor I’ve noticed is that generally speaking the larger political units were more lethal. Cities and small states tended to exile religious minorities, and/or were forced to be more diplomatic because they had neighbors they didn’t want to provoke. That is one explanation (certainly not the only one) why England was by far the most intolerant of the Protestant territories. Even Geneva, far more radical and uncompromising in most ways, was relatively slower to kill people for religious reasons than England. The other large political entities of the era remained Catholic: France and the Hapsburg territories. These three between them accounted for the vast majority of the religiously motivated executions of the sixteenth century (not counting the witch trials which were a whole other story and were largely clustered in the Rhine valley, though Britain and Poland had quite a few as well).

Edwin
 
I understand the need to feel one’s own cause is better than another’s, but on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant battle in England political allegiance was much more of a factor than theology. This takes nothing away from(but rather adds to) those souls who one day we faithful to both God and king, then the next found the two were mutually exclusive. All martyrs should stand as both a witness to us, and a warning, that we too may face such a peril one day.
 
pnewton said:
I understand the need to feel one’s own cause is better than another’s, but on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant battle in England political allegiance was much more of a factor than theology. This takes nothing away from(but rather adds to) those souls who one day we faithful to both God and king, then the next found the two were mutually exclusive. All martyrs should stand as both a witness to us, and a warning, that we too may face such a peril one day.
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Yep.

GKC
 
pnewton said:
I understand the need to feel one’s own cause is better than another’s, but on both sides of the Catholic/Protestant battle in England political allegiance was much more of a factor than theology. This takes nothing away from(but rather adds to) those souls who one day we faithful to both God and king, then the next found the two were mutually exclusive. All martyrs should stand as both a witness to us, and a warning, that we too may face such a peril one day.
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I think that’s too simplistic and a false dichotomy. For the persecutors, I think it is true that politics mattered more for the Protestant side–not as clear on the Catholic side. But for the martyrs on both sides, it very much was about theology.

Edwin
 
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