Catholic military chaplains

[ajg]

Thank you so much!

 

[Phemie]

This got more posts then I was expecting! Thank all of you! One last question, how does the pay work? Do they get paid by the parish and the military? Or just one? I never gave any of this Amy thought until I read a completely unrelated post and it popped in my head

I don’t know how it is in the US but in Canada everything the Parish needs is covered by the military: vestments, hosts, wine, linens, etc. You would use any money from the collection plate for special projects, to support charities, etc. Chaplain gets military pay that’s about 3 times what parish priests get paid in my diocese.

I haven’t known a chaplain that was of a lower rank than Captain (Air Force, not Navy). Basic Capt’n pay is about $6600/mo.

 

[Pup7]

I haven’t known a chaplain that was of a lower rank than Captain (Air Force, not Navy). Basic Capt’n pay is about $6600/mo.

Uh, not in the US. Not even close for a captain/O3 (an O3 in our Navy is a Lieutenant) with no years’ experience or prior service in our parlance. I posted our pay scale farther up. That’s a bit higher than base plus average BAH (you can put “average” housing allowance at about $1500 a month for an O3 without dependents.)

 

[Phemie]

Uh, not in the US. Not even close for a captain/O3 (an O3 in our Navy is a Lieutenant) with no years’ experience or prior service in our parlance. I posted our pay scale farther up. That’s a bit higher than base plus average BAH (you can put “average” housing allowance at about $1500 a month for an O3 without dependents.)

There’s one of the differences between the Canadian and the US military. We don’t get housing allowance.

 

[Pup7]

That must stink if you’re stationed somewhere disproportionately expensive.

We didn’t used to either (well, not by ZIP code - all ranks got a base amount). That changed in the early 2000s.

 

[FrDavid96]

Ya have to attend chaplain school.

Yes. That’s one of the requirements.

Although, most Chaplains actually become Chaplains first, then attend Chaplain School at the earliest opportunity. Unless they attend Chaplain School as seminarians, they’re already Chaplains before they arrive.

 

[FrDavid96]

This got more posts then I was expecting! Thank all of you! One last question, how does the pay work? Do they get paid by the parish and the military? Or just one? I never gave any of this Amy thought until I read a completely unrelated post and it popped in my head

They receive military pay, the exact same as any other officer of the same pay-grade.

 

[FrDavid96]

Phemie:

I haven’t known a chaplain that was of a lower rank than Captain (Air Force, not Navy). Basic Capt’n pay is about $6600/mo.

Uh, not in the US. Not even close for a captain/O3 (an O3 in our Navy is a Lieutenant) with no years’ experience or prior service in our parlance. I posted our pay scale farther up. That’s a bit higher than base plus average BAH (you can put “average” housing allowance at about $1500 a month for an O3 without dependents.)

Once we add the allowances to the U.S. salary and do the currency conversion (I assume Phemie is posting Canadian pay in Canadian dollars), it comes out about the same. No?

 

[Pup7]

Yeah, that’s true - and a lot closer than i thought. Base pay for a new O3 without prior service is $4712. That’s about $6k Canadian.

And they still don’t get housing. Holy smokes.

Wanted to add for the general public that they shouldn’t take officer pay as a opportunity to say enlisteds are well paid. They are not.

 

[Phemie]

Yeah, that’s true - and a lot closer than i thought. Base pay for a new O3 without prior service is $4712. That’s about $6k Canadian.

And they still don’t get housing. Holy smokes.

Wanted to add for the general public that they shouldn’t take officer pay as a opportunity to say enlisteds are well paid. They are not.

Must admit that we always managed to live in MQs, except for our very 1st posting after our marriage and the first 6 months of our 4th posting.

 

[Pup7]

Military housing Stateside is expensive for what it is and generally not available for officers. We have to surrender our entire housing allowance, and there are times you do much better with what it will buy/rent by going off base.

 

[Phemie]

Military housing Stateside is expensive for what it is and generally not available for officers. We have to surrender our entire housing allowance, and there are times you do much better with what it will buy/rent by going off base.

In Canada the housing in the “Officers Patch” is generally nice. We are not supposed to be charged more than 25% of take home pay for it. That’s why we opted never to buy until hubby was released, a year into a 3 year isolated posting where we had a beautiful 3 br, 1 1/2 bath duplex with eat-in kitchen and separate dining room. Former USAF officer housing.

 

[Pup7]

Oh you should’ve seen what they wanted to give us at Lackland. 875 square feet built in the 1950s with no guarantees of being moved first into the new stuff.

We bought 2700 square feet of brand new construction (we actually built it) for $300 less than my housing allowance a month. My husband is a property broker, so when we sold (and the market there was very good - another reason we bought) the Realtor was free. Lol.

Up here in WA state it’s a bit different; traffic is worse and housing is expensive. The housing here is brand new on base and comparable to what’s on the outside, but in a way cheaper because all utilities, including mid tier cable and high speed internet, are included. All we paid extra for was the fencing, so I waited a couple of months in temporary housing and moved on base.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Wanted to add for the general public that they shouldn’t take officer pay as a opportunity to say enlisteds are well paid. They are not.

Eh…yes and no. Name me another job that an 18 year old with no skills can walk into where he/she gets the pay and benefits of the military. Yeah, an E3 isn’t rich, but almost all of the income they do have is disposable. Also one of the last places in America where you can get an actual pension, or the Post 9/11 if he/she decides not to do 20.

 

[Pup7]

Uh, no military member should qualify for welfare with two kids. And most enlisted below the grade of E5 do.

If you seriously think most E3s come in with all disposable income, you are woefully out of touch with reality. The average E3 comes in with heavy student loan debt. Many come in with kids, especially since the max enlistment age has been raised.

The stereotypes you’re perpetuating died several years ago. Welcome to a new force.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Most E4s are like 22-23. 22-23 year olds should not be supporting two kids. Anyone, in virtually any career field, is going to struggle supporting a family at that age. Maybe (gasp!) you’re not supposed to be supporting two kids when you’re in your first job a few years out of high school. I realize life happens and people have to make do, but it’s not the systems fault for assuming that a 19 year doesn’t have the responsibilities of a 35 year old.

I get real sick of hearing service members complain about being underpaid when half the time it’s their own financial mismanagement that got them there. If you’re struggling because you got married to a stripper with three kids at 20 so you could move out of the barracks and get BAH (seen it happen and I’m sure you have too), that falls under into the “no duh” pile.

And if you enlist later in life with kids, well, the pay tables aren’t a secret. If you can’t support your kids on an entry level salary, don’t take an entry level job, I guess.

Any data to support the idea that most enlisted have massive student loans? Don’t buy that for a second.

I know I sound unfeeling, but I just can’t get behind the idea that the average junior enlisted person with a spouse and multiple kids isn’t more or less the author of their own financial woes. Why are we assuming that an entry level job is going to pay you enough to support a family? When I was 19-21, I was very aware that I was not financially prepared to support a family, and it’s not like I was particularly wise at that age. It just seemed obvious to me.

 

[Pup7]

Most E4s are like 22-23. 22-23 year olds should not be supporting two kids.

Most E4s in the modern military are older than that. Who and what they’re supporting is, to a point, none of your business.

Let me qualify that. Most E4s in the modern AIR FORCE are older now.

I get real sick of hearing service members complain about being underpaid when half the time it’s their own financial mismanagement that got them there. If you’re struggling because you got married to a stripper with three kids at 20 so you could move out of the barracks and get BAH (seen it happen and I’m sure you have too), that falls under into the “no duh” pile.

I get real bored with stereotypes, myself. I think I know one enlisted in the last nine years who pulled that stunt. Literally.

Any data to support the idea that most enlisted have massive student loans?

Only anecdotal and in talking to the education office at three different installations.

I know I sound unfeeling, but I just can’t get behind the idea that the average junior enlisted person with a spouse and multiple kids isn’t more or less the author of their own financial woes.

I don’t know when you retired, but it’s a different service now. Given that the average enlisted - regardless of age - has more job skills than the average 18 year old and has been asked to take a bullet in the name of the DOD (and agreed to same - I truly do not care if “they knew that”), I actually find it no less than disgusting that said DOD farms out the disparity in income to the individual states.

That is indeed what it amounts to - the DOD should pulll its head out of its behind and actually make pay commensurate with the cost of living over talking about cutting BAH by 20% (if you can’t provide government quarters for everyone - and they don’t - then you pay the prevailing rate for wherever it is you sent people) which they threaten to do every time the NDAA is renewed.

Lay off my people, please. I was enlisted once; in 1996 I cleared $414 a paycheck - and that was well below minimum wage for a Federal police officer who was also K9 trained, with the exact same training that the Secret Service and other Federal agencies received (back then I had an FAA agent in my class and two US Customs agents, along with military members, as all K9 handlers for all Federal agents are trained at Lackland AFB by my service). I worked 50-60 hour weeks, spent literally months on call because for a while I was the only non-deployed explosive team on base, and in general more than earned my $818 a month, while the Federal agents with the same level of experience made three times that in 1996.

That’s what I’m talking about. That’s why they’re underpaid. I can’t speak for your service, but I know my people aren’t skill deficient. (Yeah, I know the Navy isn’t either - so consider the fact that they’re not flipping burgers for a living like their friends did back home.)

Please, think about that.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

This is a long post and I’m on my phone so I will respond when I can sit down but just for the record I am currently on active duty. I’m not retired. These aren’t outdated clichés. To be fair, I’m not in the Air Force so maybe The junior enlisted demographics there are vastly different, I can’t say.

 

[Pup7]

That indeed could be the entire issue. The demographics of each service vary greatly. I see a huge difference (I am on a joint base - insert eye roll here - it’s my second one) in the Army and the Air Force alone.

The things you are saying do exist - but they’re not the norm in the circles I move in, and have moved in since the 1990s (I was enlisted, then a DOD Civilian, went back to school as an adult, and am now commissioned). I can remember the NCOs in my enlisted years griping about the problems of an “educated force” (I am not kidding) when blind obedience “because Sarge Said So” started going by the wayside and people might actually want to know the rationale behind what they’re doing other than just because “I said so”. There are times when that is not the right answer.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Let me qualify that. Most E4s in the modern AIR FORCE are older now.

The Air Force might be it’s own animal, with the greater proportional of technical jobs, so one might argue that they’re underpaid relative to the Army E3 who doesn’t have any particular skills besides the ability to load shells in 100 degree heat. But, then, the AF is almost always a much cushier existence. We’ve seen Air Force bases. We know what amenities you guys are hiding. Besides, you can enlist in the Air Force as a freaking recreational specialist and pass out basketballs at the gym. I mean, c’mon.

Only anecdotal and in talking to the education office at three different installations.

I think your data set is skewed. Obviously, the people who go to the education office are more likely to be dealing with loans, but is that really representative of the average junior enlisted guy/gal?