Catholic Mind Control?

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The link is to a list of theories of mind control techniques…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Not that they are completely valid, since they are only theories.

Is it possible
That mind control techniques
Could begin to creep
Into the Catholic Church?

Could it create abuses?
 
The link is to a list of theories of mind control techniques…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Not that they are completely valid, since they are only theories.

Is it possible
That mind control techniques
Could begin to creep
Into the Catholic Church?

Could it create abuses?
Sure, Original Sin or it’s baptismal off-spring, concupiscence, is alive and well in the humans who are part of the Church on earth, however Jesus Christ has assured us that “…the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).
 
Sure, Original Sin or it’s baptismal off-spring, concupiscence, is alive and well in the humans who are part of the Church on earth, however Jesus Christ has assured us that “…the powers of death shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).
I agree.

Is it Original Sin that keeps us from believing this?
Or something else?
 
The link is to a list of theories of mind control techniques…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Not that they are completely valid, since they are only theories.

Is it possible
That mind control techniques
Could begin to creep
Into the Catholic Church?

Could it create abuses?

Christianity in any of its forms is a method of mind control - the dogmatic & authoritarian forms especially.​

 

Christianity in any of its forms is a method of mind control - the dogmatic & authoritarian forms especially.​

What is the difference between
A religion being dogmatic
And
A religion having dogmas?

What is the a difference between
A religion being authoritarian
And
A religion having authorities?
 
Mind control is a range on the spectrum of interaction.On the low end, the influence your personal conversation in public has on an eavesdropper. Still relatively low-intensity, the influence a commercial they show every hour has on a viewer. A lot of influence, the influence your parents had on you growing up. even more, and enough to qualify as heavy-duty mind control, the influence David Koresh had on the people who originally went to see him thinking their introduction to compound life was a rock concert or dinner party etc. It’s a continuum, so of course there can be creep in any direction anywhere. The store where you buy groceries could start controlling your mind. It probably won’t anytime soon, though, since it has better ways to operate. Usually a group resorts to mind control only when its other draws are too weak. That won’t happen to the Church, because we have copious evidence and a good way of life, which will always attract people.
 

Christianity in any of its forms is a method of mind control - the dogmatic & authoritarian forms especially.​

If we go along with this, education, too, is a form of mind control; as is science; as is our career; as is our will to have an ‘open mind’ and not be caught by any single or complex belief. We can even go further and say that our bad experiences are a form of mind control; and add to this, our good experiences. Each of these ‘form’ what and how we do things and live.

One has to consider what it is that does have authority in the way we live life. Does ‘it’… or do ‘we’… even with logic and reasoning as a final ‘authority’… we miss the other levels of our being, the body, spirit/soul and faith… but perhaps the most important, is that which we will tomorrow discover by the faith we have today.
 
The link is to a list of theories of mind control techniques…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Not that they are completely valid, since they are only theories.

Is it possible
That mind control techniques
Could begin to creep
Into the Catholic Church?

Could it create abuses?
All religions, to one extent or another, indoctrinate followers. Indoctrination is a process by which a set of beliefs are established firmly in a mind which over time dictate behavior and attitudes.

The easiest to indoctrinate are young children, then teens and certainly those who are not critical thinkers. Indoctrination is established through several ways: Presentation of ideas, memorization of those ideas and reinforcement of those ideas over time. Its also generational, meaning its likely that as one’s parents and grandparents were indoctrinated, so too will one’s children and grandchildren. This provides for a religion a means of generational survival and propagation.

And there is something more, or otherwise its merely teaching. There has to be an emotional componant added to it in order to reinforce an indoctrinated set of ideas. Oldest of all is fear, punishment, shame, guilt and promise of reward.

And all of this is controled by the teaching “authority” and the authority finds its power not only in its position in a given community, its membership in a large institution, but ultimately from the God who can only be known through it.

Its clearly a powerful tool and one must always be wary of abuses.
 
All religions, to one extent or another, indoctrinate followers. Indoctrination is a process by which a set of beliefs are established firmly in a mind which over time dictate behavior and attitudes.

The easiest to indoctrinate are young children, then teens and certainly those who are not critical thinkers. Indoctrination is established through several ways: Presentation of ideas, memorization of those ideas and reinforcement of those ideas over time. Its also generational, meaning its likely that as one’s parents and grandparents were indoctrinated, so too will one’s children and grandchildren. This provides for a religion a means of generational survival and propagation.

And there is something more, or otherwise its merely teaching. There has to be an emotional componant added to it in order to reinforce an indoctrinated set of ideas. Oldest of all is fear, punishment, shame, guilt and promise of reward.

And all of this is controled by the teaching “authority” and the authority finds its power not only in its position in a given community, its membership in a large institution, but ultimately from the God who can only be known through it.

Its clearly a powerful tool and one must always be wary of abuses.
So,
All groups
Religions, families, classrooms, governments…
Use mind control techniques?
 
So,
All groups
Religions, families, classrooms, governments…
Use mind control techniques?
Well first lets not always imagine “mind control” techniques in any stylized or hyperbolic sense as one might see in a movie. Many therapists use positive thought reinforcement techniques in order to help patients with all sorts of emotional problems and in that sense, the technique helps “control” the mind.

And some governments do use various levels of social techniques to promote unity, patriotism, etc. It can be simple such as a government hiring an ad agency to promote “no smoking” messages or, on the far end of the extreme, setting up re indoctrination camps to send some troublemaking citizens who foster alternative thoughts in their communities that do not promote a governments agenda.

And clearly families expect children to act, behave and emote according to certain precepts held by the family. Little Johnnie and Suzie stop acting out after enough punishment encourages a certain behavior. Likewise, if Mom and Dad are constantly demonstrating how to make money and save, its likely that the children will follow suit in time. Or if a parent is always negative, so too a child will grow in negativity. Is that not mind control?

Why would a religion not use such techniques? How do you think even well educated, yet deeply religious men destroy themselves and others in the name of a god? Have we not seen such tragedies time and time again? Yet from their perspective, its a road to heaven filled with virgins. And do not many religions teach how glorious it is to offer ones literal life for God? Martyrs are often made saints for that very reason. That, to me is terrifying.
 
The link is to a list of theories of mind control techniques…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

Not that they are completely valid, since they are only theories.

Is it possible
That mind control techniques
Could begin to creep
Into the Catholic Church?

Could it create abuses?
Yes. But why singal out the Catholic Church? Any institution has the capability of doing this.
Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
Yes. There are groups within the Catholic church that do this, but in many ways the members are seeking a more pure and controlled way of life. So the question then becomes, have they accepted that control of their own free will? This becomes an issue with children. How fare do you expose them to the evil outside world with all its temptations? If you truly believe that doing so without adequate eduction would be a failure to protect your child, the of course you would try to isolate them from those influences (for example, home schooling).

Many people criticize home schooling on the basis that it prevents the children from being properly socialized, but I disagree with this. It enables you to have more control over what you want your children to become socialized or accustomed to.
Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
This one doesn’t make any sense. If the leaders are intentionally deceiving their followers, then yes, this is wrong. The Catholic Church would condemn this as a violation of the commandement against lieing.
Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
No one has ever confronted me for sinful behaviour in the Catholic churches I’ve attended. Sin has been defined and explained, but there is no enforcement. I suppose it could start to be a problem. Quebec, back in the day when the Church had massive amount of authority, maybe started to fall into this attitude. My thought is that the quiet revolution was a massive rejection of this.
Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members’ “sins,” “attitudes,” and “faults” are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
No. The seal of confession protects the Catholic church from this kind of abuse. The priest is not allowed to divulge anything discussed in the confessional, either directly, or indirectly (unless the one making the confession brings it up himself outside of the confessional).
Sacred Science. The group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
This isn’t really a problem since Vatican II.
Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members’ thought processes to conform to the group’s way of thinking.
The Catholic Church does not do this. Faith and reason have always been seen as complimentary.
Doctrine over person. Member’s personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
I don’t think I can comment on this without some examples.
Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group’s ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.
Its ironic, because today’s society has decided it has the authority to determine literally who has a right to exist and who does not have a right to exist before they are ever even born. By the very fact that a person believes in right and wrong, we make distinctions and judge people. We are always judging people, even when we are not aware that we are doing it.

I don’t think this one makes any sense except for a person who believes everything is relative.

God bless,
Ut
 
I certainly do not experience my education or Catholic faith as ‘mind control’. I have freely chosen Catholicism; I freely choose to follow Catholic teachings - even if I don’t understand all of them. I don’t understand automotive engineering either, but that doesn’t stop me driving my car. I also have a very broad background in Christian and non-Christian faiths and know the alternatives to Catholicism. In addition I have freely chosen my way of life and the norms and values that I follow. I know the alternatives and have explored them and rejected them.

Mind control suggests a lack of choice and a power exerted over your thoughts, emotions and beliefs by others. Most people are aware of social norms and values, as well as contrasting beliefs and it is this awareness and a conscious participation on the part of the individual that demonstrates that we *are not *David Icke’s ‘mindless robots’ and victims of ‘mind control’.
 
I certainly do not experience my education or Catholic faith as ‘mind control’. I have freely chosen Catholicism; I freely choose to follow Catholic teachings - even if I don’t understand all of them. I don’t understand automotive engineering either, but that doesn’t stop me driving my car. I also have a very broad background in Christian and non-Christian faiths and know the alternatives to Catholicism. In addition I have freely chosen my way of life and the norms and values that I follow. I know the alternatives and have explored them and rejected them.

Mind control suggests a lack of choice and a power exerted over your thoughts, emotions and beliefs by others. Most people are aware of social norms and values, as well as contrasting beliefs and it is this awareness and a conscious participation on the part of the individual that demonstrates that we *are not *David Icke’s ‘mindless robots’ and victims of ‘mind control’.
I agree that the Catholic faith
Does not promote mind control.

I question whether there are individuals
In the Catholic Church
Who abusively take advantage of this.
 
I agree that the Catholic faith
Does not promote mind control.

I question whether there are individuals
In the Catholic Church
Who abusively take advantage of this.
I was once part of Opus Dei. Let me tell you, that is one creepy organization. Lots of high pressure tactics, lots of isolation of young kids to “encourage” joining higher levels of spiritual sacrifice. Then there was the little calici - and the flog! OWCH!!:eek:

Yes, there are certainly groups in the Church that do take advantage and OD is one of them.
 
I was once part of Opus Dei. Let me tell you, that is one creepy organization. Lots of high pressure tactics, lots of isolation of young kids to “encourage” joining higher levels of spiritual sacrifice. Then there was the little calici - and the flog! OWCH!!:eek:

Yes, there are certainly groups in the Church that do take advantage and OD is one of them.
Can you provide examples?

I’ve just started with spiritual direction with Opus Dei. I haven’t seen anything too weird yet.

God bless,
Ut
 
Can you provide examples?

I’ve just started with spiritual direction with Opus Dei. I haven’t seen anything too weird yet.

God bless,
Ut
First, this was many, many years ago, I was still in Catholic grade school and they would come to our class room and seperate boys from girls. An older man would encourage the boys to attend a summer learning center, that we would get to read lots of great books, explore all sorts of fun things such as photography, model building, chemistry, and there would be sports.

I went and even enjoyed it, even having to go a mass service each time we were there. Then they would put us in a huge room for a rosary. Total focus on the repetitive verses of the rosary were greatly encouraged en mass and any boys who were distracted had to leave the presence of the others.

Then they would want us to talk about spiritual things. Now I was never so spiritual so I never really got into it. But the kids that seemed more in tune with that, they would get pulled into other meetings in a room we were generally forbidden to enter. These select boys would be alone with these men. They would never tell us what was said in those meetings, although some of us assumed some awful things.

Years later, while attending a Protestant graduate school, I found Opus Dei to be a good antidote to a lot of Catholic bashing that went on, but I also began to see OD in a different, more critical light.

The men who ran a local OD center in town were very devout, always heading off to a Latin Mass in this small Catholic Church out in a corn field. And one man, who was a professor and an OD Supernumerary, even told me that dancing was really a form of fornication and encouraged me not to attend school dances. And this is also when another student showed me his calici. That all freaked me out, to say the least.

This is all anecdotal, you understand. Its up to each individual to figure out what is to his or her liking. For me, spirituality is a very, very personal and private matter. I would never let any human being or group “guide” me in the spiritual. Its a personal journey only I can take.
 
I was once part of Opus Dei. Let me tell you, that is one creepy organization. Lots of high pressure tactics, lots of isolation of young kids to “encourage” joining higher levels of spiritual sacrifice. Then there was the little calici - and the flog! OWCH!!:eek:

Yes, there are certainly groups in the Church that do take advantage and OD is one of them.
I’m sorry for you having to experience these individuals.
Something didn’t feel “right” about that situation.

The Catholic Church teaches
Love can not have fear
Neither
Fear of punishment
Nor
Fear of losing any worldly good, reinforcement, or reward
Because
The Eternal God (Perfect Happiness, Love,…), himself, is sufficient.
 
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