Catholic Mind Control?

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Here is how the three Christian groups I have been in, a couple I was almost in, a New Age no-name house cult I was on the fringe of for years, a liberal public school system, and the left-wing anti-religion scene I was in as a kid compare for these traits in my recall.
  1. Milieu control: A Non-denominational Community Church – perhaps 1.5-15%; UPC – slightly more than 50%; Evangelical Friends – not at all, not even a required church attendance; G12 system – around 33%; Catholic Church – you get to choose your level, and it’s easier to stay at a lower level of involvement, rather than automatically increasing default involvements – required level, less than 1%, majority under 10% at any given time; that one New Age group – seemed to want total immersion from core, with fringers like me around 10%-15% IIRC; School – 25%; that anti-religion movement – 100% when it had its way.
  2. Mystical manipulation: Community church – on a scale of one to ten, perhaps 4; UPC – I’d call it 25%; Evangelical Friends – Unlikely, from what I saw; G12 – 30%; Catholic Church – I don’t know about any, and it would surprise me; New Age group – 50% minimum; School – 5%; anti-religion movement – 5% IIRC, but I was so young then I wouldn’t know for sure.
  3. Demand for purity: Community church – 50%; UPC – 100%; Evangelical Friends – 30%; G12 – 70% Catholic Church – 38%; New Age group – 50%; school – 35%; anti-religion movement – 75%.
  4. Confession (abuses thereof): Community church – I don’t know of it; UPC – I don’t know about it; Evangelical Friends – none; G12 – 40%; Catholic Church – it would break a strict rule, and I’ve never heard of it; New Age group – 55%; school – ever glimpse your permanent record? So do lots of people. I’d call this one 50% all in all; anti-religion movement – 30%, higher when the movement is stronger, lower when there just aren’t enough people who want to stay for self-criticism session.
    That’s the first half the criteria.
 
Agripa said:
First, this was many, many years ago, I was still in Catholic grade school and they would come to our class room and seperate boys from girls. An older man would encourage the boys to attend a summer learning center, that we would get to read lots of great books, explore all sorts of fun things such as photography, model building, chemistry, and there would be sports.

I went and even enjoyed it, even having to go a mass service each time we were there. Then they would put us in a huge room for a rosary. Total focus on the repetitive verses of the rosary were greatly encouraged en mass and any boys who were distracted had to leave the presence of the others.

Then they would want us to talk about spiritual things. Now I was never so spiritual so I never really got into it. But the kids that seemed more in tune with that, they would get pulled into other meetings in a room we were generally forbidden to enter. These select boys would be alone with these men. They would never tell us what was said in those meetings, although some of us assumed some awful things.

Years later, while attending a Protestant graduate school, I found Opus Dei to be a good antidote to a lot of Catholic bashing that went on, but I also began to see OD in a different, more critical light.

The men who ran a local OD center in town were very devout, always heading off to a Latin Mass in this small Catholic Church out in a corn field. And one man, who was a professor and an OD Supernumerary, even told me that dancing was really a form of fornication and encouraged me not to attend school dances. And this is also when another student showed me his calici. That all freaked me out, to say the least.

This is all anecdotal, you understand. Its up to each individual to figure out what is to his or her liking. For me, spirituality is a very, very personal and private matter. I would never let any human being or group “guide” me in the spiritual. Its a personal journey only I can take.
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Interesting. I had a similar experience in University. An overzealous missionary invited me to the Opus Dei residence for a recollection, and it freaked me out. I not ready for that kind of experience at all. That and he was too pushy, but he was also young like me, so I can’t blame that on the fact that he was Opus Dei. I broke off the relation when he said I didn’t love God enough.

But here I am, fifteen years later, and I’m now going for spiritual direction… 🙂 Strange how life can change your perspective on things. I’m also starting to be involved with the community, and I find most of the members a joy to be around (of course there are a few I can’t stand, but ces la vie).

I think what has changed is that my relationship with the spiritual director has been established first. He is a very holy and wise man. There is no pushing, not manipulation tactics. He is just there to help me grow in my spiritual life and encourage me in positive directions.

God bless,
Ut
 
🙂 🙂 Look into my eyes :hypno: :hypno: You’re getting sleepy:sleep: :sleep: You’re Catholic:highprayer: :nun1:
 
The second half of the criteria would look like this.
5. Sacred Science. Community church – I don’t know; UPC – 90%; Evangelical Friends – 20%; G12 – 70%; Catholic Church – 45%; New Age group – 40%; school – 50%; anti-religious movement – 35%.
6. Loading the Language. Community church – Don’t know; UPC – 100%; Evangelical Friends – 38%; G12 – 90%; Catholic Church – 0%; New Age group – 50%; school – 10%; anti-religious movement – 55%.
7. Doctrine over person. Community church – not sure. UPC – 75%; Evangelical Friends – 45%; G12 – 70%; Catholic Church – 20%; New Age group – 45%; school – 55%; anti-religious movement – 75%.
8. Dispensing of existence. Community church – not sure. UPC – 55%; Evangelical Friends – 10%; G12 – 33%; Catholic Church – 25%; New Age group – 45%; school – 40%; anti-religious group --55%.
 
I’d break the possible range down as follows:
0-4%: no group, society or circle of acquaintances could function like this.
4-12%: extremely open-minded, nonconforming, leaderless group of independent thinkers, difficult to achieve and maintain, unlikely to be able to respond to crisis as a group but a cool philosophy circle maybe.
12-22%: Reason-valuing, individuality-affirming group, capable of operating as a group when it has to. A good church.
22-29%: a good range for a church, or college or private school. It would be wonderful if public schools could be so open and uncontrolling to the pupils, too. Some alternative schools actually can. Good range for a place of employment.
29-40%: As controlling as public school.
40-55%: Not where you want to be.
55-75%: If someone has so little faith in you that they think they have to do this to your mind, ask them why. If the reply is an insult, get help getting free.
75–100%: Don’t drink the Flavoraid.
 
Psychotheosophy said:
What is the difference between
A religion being dogmatic
And
A religion having dogmas?
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It’s not clear that having dogmas is a good thing at all. That was my point, & not the distinction you’re interested in; which I could have made more clearly, perhaps :cool:​

What is the a difference between
A religion being authoritarian
And
A religion having authorities?
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**Authority need not be authoritarian. Authority in various forms is unavoidable & needed as long as men are imperfect, in all walks of life. Authoritarianism is quite di****fferent. :eek: **​

 
Authoritarianism:
a form of government in which the ruler is an absolute dictator (not restricted by a constitution or laws or opposition etc.)
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Authority:
  • the power or right to give orders or make decisions; “he has the authority to issue warrants”; "deputies are given authorization to make arrests …
  • (usually plural) persons who exercise (administrative) control over others; “the authorities have issued a curfew”
  • an expert whose views are taken as definitive; “he is an authority on corporate law”
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The Catholic Church has authority. It is not authoritarian however as it is not a dictatorship and their are constitutional and oppositional controls.
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:

Christianity in any of its forms is a method of mind control - the dogmatic & authoritarian forms especially.​

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100% agreed. When coercive force is used (threat or promise of hell, excommunication etc.) to induce others to believe as you (or the Church) does then you are practicing mind control.

“Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind”…
 
Gottle_of_Geer said:
It’s not clear that having dogmas is a good thing at all…** **
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Assuming dogmas are true, one point in their favor is you don’t have to keep re-inventing the wheel. Similarly, engineers rely on established physical laws of nature. Judges rely on precedent. Civilizations develop on a foundation of truth. Our Lord said the truth will make you free.
 
One can argue that those most free from mind control are the insane. Control of our minds is not necessarily a bad thing. It gives us a common set of mental reference points that allow us to communicate. Socially acceptable standards of contact that allow us to interact together. etc… No society is free from such forms of control. If it were, there would be anarchy. Some control is good and necessary.

A while ago, I was whatching a program on neuroscience that describe social tendencies in adolescence to destructive behaviour (for example head bangers at a heavy metal rock concert.) It was found that they had an excessive amount of some form of neurotransmitter (I forget the name). The discussion went on to say that rebellious tendencies can be positive, providing us with the capability to question our assumptions, and to reinvent ourselves. However, it can go to far, leading to depression, suicide, etc…

It is sometimes necessary to shake up the status quo in order to see if there are better ways of doing things that respect our human freedom, dignity and our desire for the good. Vatican II was one such shake up from a religious perspective. In fact, I find Vatican II an amazing acheivement for such a massive insitution as the Catholic Church, showing a vitality hard to find in similar institutions.

God bless,
Ut
 
utunumsint said:
One can argue that those most free from mind control are the insane. Control of our minds is not necessarily a bad thing. It gives us a common set of mental reference points that allow us to communicate. Socially acceptable standards of contact that allow us to interact together. etc… No society is free from such forms of control. If it were, there would be anarchy. Some control is good and necessary.

A while ago, I was whatching a program on neuroscience that describe social tendencies in adolescence to destructive behaviour (for example head bangers at a heavy metal rock concert.) It was found that they had an excessive amount of some form of neurotransmitter (I forget the name). The discussion went on to say that rebellious tendencies can be positive, providing us with the capability to question our assumptions, and to reinvent ourselves. However, it can go to far, leading to depression, suicide, etc…

It is sometimes necessary to shake up the status quo in order to see if there are better ways of doing things that respect our human freedom, dignity and our desire for the good. Vatican II was one such shake up from a religious perspective. In fact, I find Vatican II an amazing acheivement for such a massive insitution as the Catholic Church, showing a vitality hard to find in similar institutions.

God bless,
Ut
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Along those lines, there was a great program on NPR this Sunday - all about “doubting” faith and its role in religion. I think without doubt, the faithful would get lazy, or worse, allow themselves to get far too powerful or take advantage of people. There needs to be a peanut gallery in every Church and I am proudly sitting in it!! :cool:
 
Agripa said:
Along those lines, there was a great program on NPR this Sunday - all about “doubting” faith and its role in religion. I think without doubt, the faithful would get lazy, or worse, allow themselves to get far too powerful or take advantage of people. There needs to be a peanut gallery in every Church and I am proudly sitting in it!! :cool:
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I agree with this up to a point: it is easy to be an armchair warrior or to throw peanuts. It is much harder to make constructive, positive changes to an organization or group of people. Those who attempt such, and succeed deserve our respect. And even when they fail, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater.

God bless,
Ut
 
Agripa said:
Along those lines, there was a great program on NPR this Sunday - all about “doubting” faith and its role in religion. I think without doubt, the faithful would get lazy, or worse, allow themselves to get far too powerful or take advantage of people. There needs to be a peanut gallery in every Church and I am proudly sitting in it!! :cool:
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Doubt is an absolute requirement to growth.

If you think you have it all figured out, why bother to learn something new?

There is not enough of an emphasis on doubt, within religion today. It has become too influenced by a world that requires…no DEMANDS facts…IE something that can be verified. You cannot verify via current respected methods any religious claims.

Doubt is okay…doubt, does not need to be justified. It is only needed to begin the journey…and should remain in place throughout it.

Cheers
Dame
 
Dameedna said:
Doubt is an absolute requirement to growth.

If you think you have it all figured out, why bother to learn something new?

There is not enough of an emphasis on doubt, within religion today. It has become too influenced by a world that requires…no DEMANDS facts…IE something that can be verified. You cannot verify via current respected methods any religious claims.

Doubt is okay…doubt, does not need to be justified. It is only needed to begin the journey…and should remain in place throughout it.

Cheers
Dame
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Agreed! 👍
 
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