Catholic mom abandoned family - mental illness

[Irishmom2]

So, what is it that you are looking for in starting this thread? Because you can’t have both things. You can’t have a valid marriage with your wife and yet divorce and remarry.

Perhaps you are right and you don’t have grounds to have your marriage to qualify for a declaration of nullity. If you feel your wife is “only” mentally ill and your marriage was otherwise fine, then you are right not to seek to nullification of your marriage.

So that leaves you married to a mentally ill woman, with a family to raise on your own. It leaves you in the same place as a bunch of other conditions medically that would have you raising your children alone. Is your case different? That is not for any of us to say.

 

[1ke]

In the meantime, the children need more than an asundry of babysitters and friends.

They have you, their father. They have their extended family. They can’t have their mom because she is sick. They don’t need a replacement mom. That simply won’t work. Get some professional guidance from a qualified therapist on how to help your children.

Selfishly, I crave it, and would love to see more than the absence of a mom define me and our family to our community.

Move away from the temptation to find a woman, you are a married man. Be faithful to the vow you made and your sick wife. Being faithful to that vow is the most important example you can give your children of sacrificial love.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I would actually point that you are modeling a loving relationship to your children.

You have been faithful to your wife.
Then she got sick.
Then you did everything you could to support her flourishing.
You have continued to attempt contact, despite she rebuffs you.
She is cared for to the capacity she can be.

You see, illness is a fact. You promised to be faithful in sickness and in health.
If she had cancer, would you leave her?

Your children are watching you love your wife under very adverse circumstances.

At the same time, I bet you are very lonely–you need to reach out and create a circle of people around you for a support network.

I will pray for you allray:t2:ray:t2:ray:t2:

 

[Irishmom2]

Exactly this. Great post!

 

[Xantippe]

I would be offended to know a man was pursuing me as a mother for his kids rather than for who I am and my worth as a person independent of his situation.

But most importantly, and I can’t stress this enough: You are married already. You are not free to marry anyone else. So the sooner you get the thought out or your head the better.

And the other thing is that even if the OP were free to marry today, what his kids need and what he needs are not the same (and as people have mentioned, what each of his kids need is not even the same).

An advantage of hiring a babysitter or nanny is that you only have to consider your children’s needs.

 

[Xantippe]

A petition for a declaration of nullity isn’t a self-help process. It’s a legal action to have a particular alleged fact declared int he external forum. One should not seek a legal judgment if one is convinced, as the OP says he is, that it would not actually be true. That would be similar to a prosecutor filing charges on someone who he thinks is innocent.

I’ve often heard from people online who have done it that the annulment process (while painful and very lengthy) is one of the best ways possible to understand and deal with their past. It can be a very productive and healing process.

It’s not at all like the OP would be being a prosecutor–it’s more like being a witness. The OP would just be providing information to the appropriate authorities to the best of his abilities.

Also, I think you’re not paying enough attention to the fact that the OP is thinking of getting married lickety-split without an annulment. If he does the annulment paperwork and is refused, he will hopefully accept that and move on. If he gets a yes, he can accept that and move on.

What doesn’t make sense is his current position of thinking that he can have two living wives at the same time and that that is somehow holier than applying for an annulment and submitting to the judgment of the Church.

And I also think that it’s a bit bad of you to treat submitting to the judgment of the Church as somehow getting away with something.

 

[Gwendolen]

Yes, exactly,

It does not sound like you know many people who have successfully navigated single parenthood. There seem to be no other single dads in your circle (or even outside of it) that you can gain support for and bounce things off of.

It sounds like you do not agree with the Catholic Church position that if one has had a valid marriage, and the spouse is still alive, one is not free to remarry. You have said so yourself you consider your marriage valid.

I have much sympathy for your situation. But you cannot come to a board of Catholics, that are here to uphold each other in the faith, and expect a different answer.

If it helps, although not divorced, I do work outside the home and our children had a nanny for many years. They were deeply attached to her, and she definitely provided a grandmotherly presence, and is deeply loved as a member of the family and fondly spoken of, although they are too old for a nanny now.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

I think that’s respectful and appropriate feedback. I’m not sure I’ve ever met a sole custody single parent with very young children, much less a single father. I have met some folks who divorced, but that’s a totally different animal, with people deriving logistical/financial support from their children’s other parent.

I turned here, because I am a faithful Catholic. And I want to espouse those teachings with my children

I feel more closely aligned to being something of a widower, but without the corresponding support group to turn to. I very much appreciate everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and thoughts!

 

[Arkansan]

It’s not at all like the OP would be being a prosecutor–it’s more like being a witness. The OP would just be providing information to the appropriate authorities to the best of his abilities.

You’re engaged in blatant equivocation.

Tribunals do not decide on their own to adjudicate the validity of marriages, they only do so when a petition for a declaration of nullity is filed by one of the spouses. Filing such a petition while being certain that the marriage is not in fact null is no different than any other frivolous legal action.

 

[Xantippe]

Filing such a petition while being certain that the marriage is not in fact null is no different than any other frivolous legal action.

Is a lay person inexperienced in such matters in a good position to figure that out for himself?

This is a highly specialized area, and it’s really not fair to expect the OP to be an expert on it before he even begins the process.

 

[His_helpmeet]

I am a stepmom and taught my kid about feminine hygiene. (Then again she does not have the best relationship with her natural mother.)

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

In my case, there is NO contact from the mother (for several years). I think to myself, “What would I want her to do, if this were me? How could she best raise the children with love in my absence?”

 

[Arkansan]

I didn’t say that he shouldn’t seek advice. What I said was, that if he is convinced in conscience that his marriage was valid, then it would obviously be wrong to petition for a judgment that it was invalid. Expert advice can generally be relied on with a safe conscience by the unlearned, but not if one is subjectively certain that it is in error, since everyone is bound to follow the certain judgments of his/her own conscience.

And again, seeking expert advice isn’t equivalent to petitioning for a legal judgment.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

I’m confident it was valid.

I’m also confident that the facts would be sufficient to receive a decree of nulity. You see, in mental illness, people say some WEIRD stuff. Those words become grounds in and of themselves to justify a decree of nulity, e.g. “I always wanted to be a lesbian, but I chose to marry you”. As were words threatening to kill my children (the reason we civilly divorced)

Those words, memorized by my wife in email/voice mail/and heard by many on Facebook who were present back at the time of the marriage ceremony WERE used (just a decade AFTER we were married, but referencing a time BEFORE we were married, and from a delusional person who has been adjudicated legally incompetent.

Is it conceivable that she thought some of that before we were married? I suppose. But I knew her from adolescence, through high school, college, years of dating and engagement. If that were present, would I have asked her to marry me? No…

This is the reason for my question. As someone who believes in the sacrament of marriage but who also likely had grounds for a decree of nullity, and has concern for his children’s safety / well being from a person who is mentally ill

 

[Xantippe]

I think to myself, “What would I want her to do, if this were me? How could she best raise the children with love in my absence?”

Under the sort of difficulty that you are right now, that sort of logic is likely to lead to self-deception.

Also, you’re assuming an automatically loving, harmonious step-family, which really cannot be counted on. You would not believe how many online advice columns there are from step-mothers who HATE their husband’s kids.

Google “I hate my husband’s kids” for some examples of how easy it is to accidentally marry somebody who can’t stand your children.

You’ve been told in your previous thread that your kids do not need a step-mother. And it’s true–whatever your needs are, your kids do not need a step-mother.

 

[1ke]

In my case, there is NO contact from the mother (for several years). I think to myself, “What would I want her to do, if this were me? How could she best raise the children with love in my absence?”

There is only one thing you CAN do and that is raise them lovingly as their father with help from family and friends.

You are validly married and therefore there is no option for a romantic interest in someone else. You cannot marry anyone else.

Stop trying to go down that path and find people who will tell you it is ok to divorce and remarry. It isn’t OK. It’s adultery.

 

[Xantippe]

Stop trying to go down that path and find people who will tell you it is ok to divorce and remarry. It isn’t OK. It’s adultery.

Right.

As a practicing Catholic, you have two main possible paths:

1. Continue parenting and living solo.

or

1. Pursue an annulment, but be prepared for a no and don’t date while waiting. If you get a no, go back to #1. If you get a yes, you can either choose #1 or to date and hopefully eventually remarry, while giving it a lot of time and caution and not doing hurtful things to your children like introducing them too soon and letting them get attached to a series of women who do not pan out or letting your own emotions blind you to the fact that a particular lady likes you but isn’t prepared to deal with your kids.

Bear in mind that if you choose to go down the path of remarriage outside the Church, you automatically lose the chance of marrying a solid practicing Catholic woman. A serious practicing Catholic woman would not go near you if you were not free to marry in the Church. So you’re going to be left with non-Catholics and not-so practicing Catholics.

One of the things I like best about option #2 is that it slows the OP down. The OP sounds like he is in much too much of a hurry to get to “Happily ever after”.

 

[TheLittleLady]

So, what is it that you are looking for in starting this thread? Because you can’t have both things. You can’t have a valid marriage with your wife and yet divorce and remarry.

THIS. This. This.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

Too much of a hurry? Maybe think of it as akin to one’s spouse being in a coma for six years and located 600 miles away. It’s not that you would love her any less than if she had died six years prior. It’s not that you wouldn’t continue to pray intently for her and continue to support her economically. It’s just that the logistics of child rearing, volunteering, working, maintaining a house, dentists/doctors appointments, sports, etc. look to a support networt, which, at least in my community, tends to come from stay at home moms carpooling and facilitating sports sign ups, school projects, and coordination of summer camps so that husbands can work. Among those families with two working spouses, the wife continues to be the conduit into the ‘moms network’ within the community.

In other words, this isn’t about sex, or loneliness, or whatever. It’s a function of working 9-6, and the children not being as connected to the fabric of the community as their mother and I would have liked.

Not saying we can’t muscle through. We continue to every day. I remember, growing up, that my father said that if a project is ‘hard’, it’s often because you have the wrong tool (like pliers instead of a crescent or plumbers wrench). It sometimes feels like I have the wrong tools to do it alone. Not that I won’t arrive at the destination, just that it’s at the children’s expense.

And, by the way, that’s not to say there isn’t a silver lining. The children are incredibly grateful, empathetic, and love Jesus very much.

 

[Xantippe]

Among those families with two working spouses, the wife continues to be the conduit into the ‘moms network’ within the community.

How about finding a sitter or nanny who could do that for your family for the time being? A lot of middle class SAHMs do childcare in their homes.

I think you’re right about the role that mothers play–but it’s just not going to be a role that a childless woman can immediately step into (as the many cases of unhappy step-moms demonstrates). It requires a lot of growing into and a lot of work. Even if you married tomorrow, it would be a multi-year process. And if she had a child or children of her own and perhaps the children’s father somewhere in the picture and perhaps a career of her own and aging parents to take care of, that would just make things more complicated. And if you had more children together, that would just multiply the number of balls in the air. The more people, the more opportunities for interpersonal conflict.

It wouldn’t necessarily reduce your work load if you remarried–in fact, it’s conceivable that your work load and stress load would increase after a honeymoon period.

In other words, this isn’t about sex, or loneliness, or whatever. It’s a function of working 9-6, and the children not being as connected to the fabric of the community as their mother and I would have liked.

You’re expecting a woman to step right into your wife’s shoes, and that’s not fair to anybody.

Not that I won’t arrive at the destination, just that it’s at the children’s expense.

I suggest you read about step-family problems.

And, by the way, that’s not to say there isn’t a silver lining. The children are incredibly grateful, empathetic, and love Jesus very much.

That’s important. And they probably also have a strong relationship with you and don’t feel like they have to compete with a woman for your love or attention.