Catholic Monergism

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I THINK this is quickly answered, so it shouldn’t take too long.

I’m defining, for the purposes of this thread, monergism as stating that God, and God alone, is responsible for saving someone. In monergism He is absolutely sovereign, and salvation is absolutely not up to anyone but God. Whom He saves, He saves.

In Catholic theology, if a Catholic winds up in heaven, all the glory and honor and credit belong to God. If a Catholic goes to hell, it is that particular Catholic’s fault. So a Catholic who is a saint is a monergist. Catholics only get credit for their going to hell. Any merit a Catholic obtains is actually not to their own credit, but an act of grace, and is actually a gift of God. A Catholic cannot take credit for anything - even for an act of free will.

Comments?
 
The Roman Catholic position is synergistic and semi-pelagian.

Council of Trent CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

Cooperation with God is essential to the Catholic position.
 
Prove it. Synergestic with what? How is it semi-Pelagian? And don’t forget the distinction between Thomism and Molinarism (sp?).
 
Cooperation with God is essential to the Catholic position.
Think about what your saying. You are advocating that disobedience and non-cooperation with God is essential for Christianity! How absurd…you need to rethink your own position.
 
The Roman Catholic position is synergistic and semi-pelagian.
I think that is false. You could say it is synergistic but I don’t think you could say it is semi-pelagian. Grace is absolutely necessary for both the beginning of salvation and for its continuation.

Truthstalker, I think I would disagree with your assessment too. It is possible that God recieves complete credit for our salvation but that we may also recieve credit. Otherwise there would be no basis to blaim the person for losing their salvation if they could never hold on to it. The Catholic Church teaches that each man has a free will. Yes, it is informed by the Grace of God but not in a way that keeps you from acting on your own. You still have to make the decision to live according to Christ. It is still on you. God is the cause of our salvation and without Him we would be absolutely lost, but He leaves it to us whether we will accept His gift.

Remember that the Catholic Church does not follow a purely Augustinian perspective. Augustine went a little off with his explaination of salvation and free will.

Salvation, from what I have learned, seems to be more according to the theory of Molinism than Thomism. Molinism stresses that each man has an absolute free will while at the same time it does not deny that God’s Grace is soveriegn. I don’t know a whole lot about molinism but from what I have read it seems to be pretty much the approach of the Catholic Church.
 
I THINK this is quickly answered, so it shouldn’t take too long.

I’m defining, for the purposes of this thread, monergism as stating that God, and God alone, is responsible for saving someone. In monergism He is absolutely sovereign, and salvation is absolutely not up to anyone but God. Whom He saves, He saves.

In Catholic theology, if a Catholic winds up in heaven, all the glory and honor and credit belong to God. If a Catholic goes to hell, it is that particular Catholic’s fault. So a Catholic who is a saint is a monergist. Catholics only get credit for their going to hell. Any merit a Catholic obtains is actually not to their own credit, but an act of grace, and is actually a gift of God. A Catholic cannot take credit for anything - even for an act of free will.

Comments?
One thing to note is that terms like “synergism” are infact Biblical:
8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3

As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Cor 6:1
Each of the above verses use the greek word for synergism (ie cooperating with God).
 
The Roman Catholic position is synergistic and semi-pelagian.

Council of Trent CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

Cooperation with God is essential to the Catholic position.
That is not semi-pelagianism. You can call it synergism though. Grace is the first cause of our salvation. Our free will is kind of a second cause. We must have the Grace first before we can act in conformity with God. Semi-pelagianism says that the beginning of faith is an act of the will while its continuation is an act of God or it says that the beginning of faith is an act of God while its increase is an act of the will(it took both forms).
 
One thing to note is that terms like “synergism” are infact Biblical:
8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3

As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Cor 6:1
Each of the above verses use the greek word for synergism (ie cooperating with God).
You have taken the above verses completely out of context.

The above verses are not speaking of how salvation occurs.
 
That is not semi-pelagianism. You can call it synergism though. Grace is the first cause of our salvation. Our free will is kind of a second cause. We must have the Grace first before we can act in conformity with God. Semi-pelagianism says that the beginning of faith is an act of the will while its continuation is an act of God or it says that the beginning of faith is an act of God while its increase is an act of the will(it took both forms).
I’m not sure if you guys (Catholics) are semi-pelagian or not, but you are definitely synergistic. I’m not sure how one could deny that your theology is syngergistic.

From what I know, you guys aren’t semi-pelagian, at least not how I understand semi-pelagian is defined.
 
The Roman Catholic position is synergistic and semi-pelagian.

Council of Trent CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

Cooperation with God is essential to the Catholic position.
Kaycee-

I am not knowledgeable to answer your post. However, as TruthStalker will attest, we have witnessed another thread in another forum where a famous Catholic apologist absolutely took a famous Protestant apologist to school on the charge that it is the Protestant who is the Pelagian.

This is very odd indeed.
 
I’m not sure if you guys (Catholics) are semi-pelagian or not, but you are definitely synergistic. I’m not sure how one could deny that your theology is syngergistic.

From what I know, you guys aren’t semi-pelagian, at least not how I understand semi-pelagian is defined.
Definitely not semi-Pelagian, a heresy condemned by the Church centuries ago 🙂
 
How about a restatement:

Do Catholics earn their salvation? No.
Do Catholics cooperate in their salvation? Yes.
Does God reward good works? Yes.
Are people capable of good works on their own, without grace? No. With grace? Catholics will answer yes, Calvinists no, Arminians yes, antinomialists will say who cares.

I agree with the statement that Catholics are not semi-Pelagian. What they are, though, I am not sure.

Maybe this is one of them there both-ands: monergism plus cooperation. Paradox.:hmmm:
 
How about a restatement:

Do Catholics earn their salvation? No.
Do Catholics cooperate in their salvation? Yes.
Does God reward good works? Yes.
Are people capable of good works on their own, without grace? No. With grace? Catholics will answer yes, Calvinists no,
From the Westminster Confession of Faith:

CHAPTER XVI.
Of Good Works.
I. Good works are only such as God hath commanded in his holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men out of blind zeal, or upon any pretense of good intention.

II. These good works, done in obedience to God’s commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.

III. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, besides the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit to work in them to will and to do of his good pleasure; yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.

IV. They, who in their obedience, attain to the greatest height which is possible in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate and to do more than God requires, that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.

V. We can not, by our best works, merit pardon of sin, or eternal life, at the hand of God, because of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come, and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom by them we can neither profit, nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins; but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants: and because, as they are good, they proceed from his Spirit; and as they are wrought by us, they are defiled and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection that they can not endure the severity of God’s judgment.

VI. Yet notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in him, not as though they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreprovable in God’s sight; but that he, looking upon them in his Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.

VII. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands, and of good use both to themselves and others; yet, because they proceed not from a heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God; they are therefore sinful and can not please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God. And yet their neglect of them is more sinful, and displeasing unto God.

Calvinists believe that one can do good works with God’s grace.
 
How about a restatement:

Do Catholics earn their salvation? No.
Do Catholics cooperate in their salvation? Yes.
Does God reward good works? Yes.
Are people capable of good works on their own, without grace? No. With grace? Catholics will answer yes, Calvinists no, Arminians yes, antinomialists will say who cares.

I agree with the statement that Catholics are not semi-Pelagian. What they are, though, I am not sure.

Maybe this is one of them there both-ands: monergism plus cooperation. Paradox.:hmmm:
Here’s an interesting article I found on the subject:
catholica.pontifications.net/?page_id=2054
 
How about a restatement:

Do Catholics earn their salvation? No.
Do Catholics cooperate in their salvation? Yes.
Does God reward good works? Yes.
Are people capable of good works on their own, without grace? No. With grace? Catholics will answer yes, Calvinists no, Arminians yes, antinomialists will say who cares.
I agree with the statement that Catholics are not semi-Pelagian. What they are, though, I am not sure.

Maybe this is one of them there both-ands: monergism plus cooperation. Paradox.:hmmm:
I’m follwoing closely and I think we’re close to an understanding, but I’d like to dwell a bit on the text in bold.

You are asking first if people are capable of doing good works on their own, without grace. And the obvious answer would be no.

THEN, you ask if people are capable of doing good works on their own, with grace.

By asking this question, in this way, you have presented the paradox within the question itself.

Not that I find it arguable. No more arguable than, say, how One can be ALL God and ALL human.

A couple of things more. . .
Originally posted by Reformed1
Originally Posted by Catholic Dude
One thing to note is that terms like “synergism” are infact Biblical:
8The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building. 1 Cor 3
As God’s fellow workers we urge you not to receive God’s grace in vain. 2 Cor 6:1
Each of the above verses use the greek word for synergism (ie cooperating with God).
You have taken the above verses completely out of context.

The above verses are not speaking of how salvation occurs.

What is the context, then?

In 1 Cor 3, it seems as though St. Paul is PRECISELY talking about the path to salvation. In this chapter particularly, he speaks clearly about “The Day” (3:13). What Day is this? Does this not refer to judgement towards salvation? Is he, then, not talking earlier about maturity and growth in spirit as a path towards salvation? In fact, just 4 verses following his teaching on cooperation with God, he makes this very statement: “if a man’s building burns, he will suffer loss. He himself will be saved, but only as one fleeing through fire.”

Hmmmm. . .sounds like salvation IS the context.

AND THEN. . .all you have to do to find the context of 2 Cor. 6:1 is read on to 2 Cor. 6:2, which says: “For he says, “In an acceptable time I have heard you; on a day of salvation I have helped you.” Now, is the acceptable time! Now is the day of salvation.”

Again, that sounds like salvation IS the context.

Could you please explain how the two verses cited are NOT pertaining to “how salvation occurs”?

And. . .

I’d like to add to the pot this particular passage of Sacred Scripture. Get your Bibles. It’s St. Paul’s second letter to Timothy, chapter 4, verses 6-8. Do these verses speak about how salvation occurs?
 
The Roman Catholic position is synergistic and semi-pelagian.

Council of Trent CANON XXXII.-If any one saith, that the good works of one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, as that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified; or, that the said justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit increase of grace, eternal life, and the attainment of that eternal life,-if so be, however, that he depart in grace,-and also an increase of glory; let him be anathema.

Cooperation with God is essential to the Catholic position.
Take a look at the context (I also would like a link to the COT but I don’t have one. I seem to recall a vigorous refutation of earning your salvation in a neighboring canon… Also please explain how this contradicts the canons of the Council of Orange, if it does.
 
I’m not sure if you guys (Catholics) are semi-pelagian or not, but you are definitely synergistic. I’m not sure how one could deny that your theology is syngergistic.

From what I know, you guys aren’t semi-pelagian, at least not how I understand semi-pelagian is defined.
That is why I said that we could be said to be synergistic. That is just what we are. There is synergy between the Grace of God and the free will.
 
How about a restatement:

Do Catholics earn their salvation? No.
Do Catholics cooperate in their salvation? Yes.
Does God reward good works? Yes.
Are people capable of good works on their own, without grace? No. With grace? Catholics will answer yes, Calvinists no, Arminians yes, antinomialists will say who cares.

I agree with the statement that Catholics are not semi-Pelagian. What they are, though, I am not sure.

Maybe this is one of them there both-ands: monergism plus cooperation. Paradox.:hmmm:
It is both…and, but it isn’t really a paradox. I think it is within reason to say that it is all by the Grace of God that we recieve salvation but that we must cooperate with that Grace.
 
I just read through the canons of the Council of Orange as posted on a Calvinist website. They made the challenge to the reader to read it carefully and decide whether the Catholic Church or the Reformed Churches are more historically faithful. Among its goodies are an effacious sacrament of baptism, a condemnation of double predestination, and a statements that sound a lot more like the Catholic Church than like the Reformed. The only way it could be the Catholic Church is if you think the Catholic Church is what Calvin thought it was, which it never was. To my thinking (to say it a third time) it is far more Catholic than Reformed, and that is fairly clear. They should read it carefully.

Oh, bother.
 
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