Catholic Morals

[AngloCatholic1]

This is my first post. I’m sort of a Mormon and married to an active Mormon lady. I say “sort of” because I was brought up Mormon but I have since lost my faith in it. I go to church every week to keep the family together and because I am not convinced yet that I have found a better church. I have been listening to Catholic radio for many years, especially Catholic Answers and feel drawn to it a bit but I have some problems with it.

The other night my wife and I talked over this topic for some time. Her biggest problem with other faiths, especially the Catholic church, is that everyone she knows who claim to be Catholic appear to have loose morals. From her view (and mine) it seems like all the emphasis is put on birth control and very little on premarital relations. My question is (especially from former Mormons): is this just a perception from outside the Catholic church, or is there something to this? My wife is convinced that kids who are brought up outside the Mormon church have a much higher chance of getting into drugs, premarital relations, divorce, etc, etc.

**fence_sitter:

My wife and I were carefully considering the EXACT SAME QUESTION about 8 years ago.** We had left the Anglican church, primarily due to its lax morality, and were considering all possible denominations as an alternative. At that time, we lived just a few blocks from the LDS Toronto Temple. Eventually, we decided to check them out… and I have to HONESTLY say that nowhere else were we made to feel more “at home” than in the LDS. The pastor’s daughter hit it off with our daughter, and before we knew it she was away camping with all the mormons girls in the district. My wife absolutely LOVED the way the men and women had some SEPARATE instruction time away from each other during the Sunday service. The women were being taught how to be virtuous Christian women, and the men were taught to be proper Christian men. My wife talked on and on about this during the few months we were attending, and I have to admit I AGREED with her.

Meanwhile, I spent as much of my spare time as I could investigating the Mormon doctrine. To make a long story short, the more I questioned it, the more it fell apart. I WANTED to believe the story and teachings of Joseph Smith, but they just DID NOT add up to sound doctrine in my mind.

So, telling my wife (and our very happy daughter) that we would HAVE TO LEAVE THE LDS BEHIND was one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done. There were many questions, and many tears. They had formed real friendships, learned real values. I told them there was NOTHING WRONG with the PEOPLE they were associating with, it was the DOCTRINE that was NOT SOUND. One night I took several hours to explain it to them all very carefully, and they finally understood.

A few years later we found ourselves in RCIA. It was THEN that we realized that Catholics must hold to the SAME high standards of behaviour and morality to be TRUE Catholics. And if they honestly stumble, there’s the confessional. If you’re not walking right with God, then you ought not to be receiving the Blessed Sacrament! It’s THAT simple. We have all since formed some very good friendships with other Catholics in the parish, people who are simply good in an honest, unpretentious way. We are all very happy now, and there’s no turning back!

Sometimes it takes courage to do the RIGHT thing, but would you eat a “perfect” ripe, juicy apple if you KNEW it was filled with pesticide? Our prayers are with you and your wife.

 

[Brywan]

there is nothing about him that is even remotely Christian

Care to rethink this one?

If he is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit then he has been marked with the sign of faith. This means that he is definitely—not remotely—Christian…

 

[nickybr38]

Care to rethink this one?

If he is baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit then he has been marked with the sign of faith. This means that he is definitely—not remotely—Christian…

Being Christian is not merely believing or being baptised. ‘You will know them by their fruits’. His fruit is worldly. That’s not a Christian. Just the view of an outsider though.

 

[catsrus]

About10 years before I fell in love with God through The Catholic Church, I was in “searching mode”. I lived a hedonistic life but KNEW I wanted God. I just didn’t know how…
My boss at that time was a bishop in the mormon church and I knew his entire family. I loved those people. They were kind and considerate of each other as well as hedonistic me and everyone else. I thought that maybe the mormon church was where I belonged so I began to read and research.
I could not do it. The “doctrine” was so convoluted and impossibly irrational that I could not overcome any of it to be part of those wonderful people.
The Holy Spirit saw my struggles and slowly, slowly, pointed me to where I am today. I new person in Christ through Holy Mother Chuch.
Thanks be to God.

 

[dianaiad]

11% of all American adults are divorced
25% of all American adults have had at least one divorce

27% of born-again Christians have had at least one divorce
24% of all non-born-again Christians have been divorced

21% of atheists have been divorced
21% of Catholics and Lutherans have been divorced
24% of Mormons have been divorced
25% of mainstream Protestants have been divorced
29% of Baptists have been divorced
24% of nondenominational, independent Protestants have been divorced

27% of people in the South and Midwest have been divorced
26% of people in the West have been divorced
19% of people in the Northwest and Northeast have been divorced

Stats from HERE

I make no claims to the validity of their stats, but its similar to what I have read on other sites.

Also, the religion a child is raised in (the truth of that religion aside) has less impact on the child than the FAITHFULNESS of the parents. If you truly live the Catholic faith you will be much better off than any other, IMHO.

FSC

The stats you quote originally come from the Center for Religious Tolerance…and they got them from “American Atheist.” When broken down further, we come to a factor that simple treatment of divorce rate just doesn’t cover, and that is–the number of couples who live together outside of marriage and just…break up. Those folks aren’t counted in the surveys. It turns out that, in terms of religious preference, the higher the divorce rate, the lower the rate of ‘shacking up’ seems to be. This is why atheists have a lower divorce rate than religious folk–the first requirement for a divorce is that one must be married.

So the fact that Mormons and Catholics are statistically neck and neck is a ‘good news/bad news’ thing. First, it’s sad that the divorce rate IS that high (though the national divorce rate is something like twice the LDS/Catholic one), but it also means that at least we actually get married!

As for me, though I do NOT buy into 'only GOOD Catholic/Mormons are real Catholic/Mormons" mindset, one thing is true; a Catholic (or a Mormon) who actually lives according to his or her faith is not going to mess around, do those things that cause divorces, and will be good neighbors and trustworthy friends.

 

[dianaiad]

I KNOW some Catholics who go to Mass EVERY Sunday, and even read scripture… and their morals are VERY loose (the fellow whom I saw reading scripture on Sunday likes to use J.C. as a swear word and makes extremely inappropriate jokes at work / he’s my coworker. I was shocked to see him at Mass… completely SHOCKED, there is nothing about him that is even remotely Christian).

I totally understand the OP’s concerns. If not for the truth the Catholic Church contained, if I was judging the Church ONLY based on the Catholics I’ve known in my life? I would run SCREAMING.

OP - You cannot judge ANY faith based on its believers. Study what the Church teaches, not what it’s parishioners decide to practice. That’s what I’m doing right now and I have fallen in love with this Church.

OK…while I would concur that you should not judge a church based upon the actions of a few of those who claim to belong to it, I think that it is also important to pay attention to whether a doctrine is generally adhered to, or generally ignored and brought up only when someone challenges actions.

For instance, I would have a problem with a church that taught that, for instance…drinking was a sin, but which served beer at official building fund-raising pot lucks dinners.

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

I KNOW some Catholics who go to Mass EVERY Sunday, and even read scripture… and their morals are VERY loose (the fellow whom I saw reading scripture on Sunday likes to use J.C. as a swear word and makes extremely inappropriate jokes at work / he’s my coworker. I was shocked to see him at Mass… completely SHOCKED, there is nothing about him that is even remotely Christian).

I totally understand the OP’s concerns. If not for the truth the Catholic Church contained, if I was judging the Church ONLY based on the Catholics I’ve known in my life? I would run SCREAMING.

OP - You cannot judge ANY faith based on its believers. Study what the Church teaches, not what it’s parishioners decide to practice. That’s what I’m doing right now and I have fallen in love with this Church.

I agree. The doctrine is true regardless of whether the individuals are actually following it. Even if there was only one person on the earth that believed that Jesus is God and is the Savior, it would still be true.

 

[mark_a]

My wife is convinced that kids who are brought up outside the Mormon church have a much higher chance of getting into drugs, premarital relations, divorce, etc, etc.

There is much to be said for the moral teachings of the LDS. The same could be said for Jehovah’s Witnesses (except for the contraception teachings).

Are LDS moral teachings really superior to the teachings of Christianity in general from the early 1800’s?

Can you point out LDS differences and superiority to current Catholic Moral teaching?

 

[dianaiad]

Being Christian is not merely believing or being baptised. ‘You will know them by their fruits’. His fruit is worldly. That’s not a Christian. Just the view of an outsider though.

That depends upon your definition of “Christian.” If by that, you mean 'he who is perfect" or 'He who is worthy," then none of us can claim the name.

 

[nickybr38]

That depends upon your definition of “Christian.” If by that, you mean 'he who is perfect" or 'He who is worthy," then none of us can claim the name.

He who attempts to follow the teachings of Christ = Christian.

But the real gauge is this; if you are in a group of non-Christians and they have NO idea that you are Christian and in fact are SHOCKED to hear that you are… youv’e failed. Miserably. That’s just my opinion though.

PS: I have BEEN that Christian that could be in a group of non-Christians and not be recognized AS a believer. I know exactly what kind of mindset it takes to ‘blend into the crowd’. But this thread isn’t ABOUT what makes a Christian so I think we should probably let that little discussion drop and suffice to say that we should ALL attempt to have good morals so those who judge the Church based on its believers won’t have any excuse to turn away based on our actions.

 

[dianaiad]

He who attempts to follow the teachings of Christ = Christian.

But the real gauge is this; if you are in a group of non-Christians and they have NO idea that you are Christian and in fact are SHOCKED to hear that you are… youv’e failed. Miserably. That’s just my opinion though.

PS: I have BEEN that Christian that could be in a group of non-Christians and not be recognized AS a believer. I know exactly what kind of mindset it takes to ‘blend into the crowd’. But this thread isn’t ABOUT what makes a Christian so I think we should probably let that little discussion drop and suffice to say that we should ALL attempt to have good morals so those who judge the Church based on its believers won’t have any excuse to turn away based on our actions.

I’m certainly with you on that…we should indeed all attempt to live according to the beliefs we claim to hold!

 

[TikiTokiguy]

When I joined the church I made two close LDS friends. Both female. Both have been married five times. I was at a dinner after services one Sunday and I was sitting with the two women who are the singles reps. I was telling them about my two dear friends who I think highly of, but they were both married five times and I found that a little shocking. The first Singles Rep says - “Well I’ve been married four times and I know my last husband is my eternal companion!” The other singles rep says she’ been married three times! When I heard them say that I thought to myself - oops, I think I just put my foot in my mouth. lol.

Although the LDS say they hold marriage in high regard I find it the opposite. I believe they degrade marriage. I’m more in line with the Catholic view of marriage.

 

[dianaiad]

When I joined the church I made two close LDS friends. Both female. Both have been married five times. I was at a dinner after services one Sunday and I was sitting with the two women who are the singles reps. I was telling them about my two dear friends who I think highly of, but they were both married five times and I found that a little shocking. The first Singles Rep says - “Well I’ve been married four times and I know my last husband is my eternal companion!” The other singles rep says she’ been married three times! When I heard them say that I thought to myself - oops, I think I just put my foot in my mouth. lol.

Although the LDS say they hold marriage in high regard I find it the opposite. I believe they degrade marriage. I’m more in line with the Catholic view of marriage.

Hmn. Well, if we are going to go all anecdotal, there’s my mother, who has been married to her first husband for 63 years and is still married to him. My grandmother was married to her only husband for 53 years. One of my sister has been married for 39 years to her only husband, and my other sister has been married for 22 years to her second husband. Her first marriage lasted less than a year; he beat her up a lot. Lessee–Oh. there’s me; I got to keep my first husband for twenty years, but I didn’t divorce him. He died. However, I haven’t remarried. I have something like 23 female cousins (Mom was the youngest of eight) and only one of them has been married more than once; she was a widow, too.

So, if we are going to trade individual stories about this person, or that person, proving something or other about our faiths, I guess in terms of marriage—I win.

The FACT is, m’friend, that Mormons and Catholics run pretty much a statistical dead heat in terms of divorce, and as I mentioned earlier, the reason we have a fairly high one is because we encourage our young people to actually GET MARRIED rather than shack up.

Of course, in terms of doctrine and perception of what marriage actually IS, in the LDS view, Catholics have a 100% divorce rate. (just to throw the cat in amongst the pigeons, so to speak… )

 

[catsrus]

originally posted by dianaiad
Of course, in terms of doctrine and perception of what marriage actually IS, in the LDS view, Catholics have a 100% divorce rate.

How rude are you?
I do believe that you and your mormon friends are in for a huge shock after your last earthly breath!

 

[SirThomasMore]

Please keep in mind…Diana has admitted that the lds prophet i9s not really a prophet. Furthermore, Diana has admitted that the Doctrine and Covenenants are not revelations from God. So we takw what she says with a grain of salt

 

[dianaiad]

How rude are you?
I do believe that you and your mormon friends are in for a huge shock after your last earthly breath!

As for us being in for a ‘huge shock,’ perhaps so, but IF so, what I said is still correct; if you are right about death disolving marriage, then what I wrote still holds true; Catholics have a 100% divorce rate. the only shock would be to discover that everybody else has a 100% divorce rate, as well.

As for your charge that I am rude, well…I didn’t intend to be. It is no more rude of me to say that than it would be to say that you revere Mary, or recite the rosary.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Please keep in mind…Diana has admitted that the lds prophet is not really a prophet. Furthermore, Diana has admitted that the Doctrine and Covenenants are not revelations from God. So we takw what she says with a grain of salt

 

[paulp1002]

Imagine how upset everyone will be when they realize that temple sealing was just another false prophecy. At that point it’ll be too late to say he was speaking as a man not as a Prophet.

 

[dianaiad]

Imagine how upset everyone will be when they realize that temple sealing was just another false prophecy. At that point it’ll be too late to say he was speaking as a man not as a Prophet.

I prefer my own idea, where, if you haven’t been given a full and fair chance to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and accept Him, it won’t be too late.

However, this is getting off the 'Catholic Morals" track, don’t you think? Or rather, it’s getting off the 'Catholics have fewer divorces so Catholics are better people" track, which is what the claim seems to be–even though we are at a statistical dead heat in divorce rates? (remember, the error rate is +/-6 points, and we are separated by a whoppin 3 points.)

Tell you what: why don’t we compare, oh…abortion rates, instead?