Catholic-Mormon Family Conflict

[nanisco]

For my first post, I have a question that is deeply gnawing at me. My son, a practicing Roman Catholic, married a young woman who is Mormon. Until about two years ago, they lived in other places in the country and then moved home so that their children could be close to where both sets of grandparents are. My daughter-in-law and I have always had a good relationship and I have always valued the kind of person she is, however, something happened that really disturbed me. Both sets of grandparents were at their home when my grandson was stung several times. He is 10 and was upset and crying and said that he had he had been stung about 30 times during his life. My daughter-in-law, who was sitting next to her mother, responded very angrily and told him to stop lying and that he was a liar, which she repeated several times. I thought that her reaction was so out of line and was was so unlike her – I had never seen this kind of behaviour before. I felt my grandson’s distress, and tried to calm him down by telling him that he was just exaggerating. Then his other grandmother told him that if he exaggerated, people couldn’t believe what he said. I was over at my son’s home again about a week later and my granddaughter who is 7 said something to which my daughter-in-law responded the same way ending with she couldn’t believe she had children who were liars. A short time later, I asked my daughter-in-law if it was alright to take the baby outside. I went outside and sat down and my DIL came outside and sat next to me, but for the first time, I had a very uncomfortable feeling. I felt like I was being watched.

In the past, people have frequently remarked on my intuition and that I seem to sense what people are feeling and what “is happening.” In the past, I have had a few experiences with the other grandparents who are strong Mormons that indicate they are not comfortable with a non-Mormon influence on their grandchildren. I know that during church and classes on Sundays, my DIL receives instructions on family life, including how to raise her children. I believe that her issues with “lying and liars” is not her but comes from her religion. I also have a strong intuition that she has been advised by either her religion or her parents to monitor non-Mormons who are in the presence of her children.

What is the best way to handle this. If it was just affectiing me, I would let it go, but I am very concerned for the well-being of my grandchildren. They have not been baptised, but it is clear that my DIL and her parents want them raised in the “Mormon way.” I would like to know the truth but don’t know who I should go to or who I can trust. If anyone has had any experience in this area or any thoughts, I would appreciate it.

 

[Princess_Abby]

What does your son say about all of this?

How long has it been since they moved here? Are they still transitioning? Perhaps there is a lot of personal stress involved with the relocation? (I just moved across the country, so I know that it can cause a lot of conflict between even the most loving of spouses! )

Also, is there any history of mental illness on her side of the family? (I am not trying to be flip; sometimes adult-onset of certain disorders does not happen until after the age of 25, and very often these things are passed down either behaviorally or genetically.)

By the way. I have worked extensively with children and whenever I deal with a child who is clearly not being honest, I have adopted the term “storyteller.” I do not like calling children “liars,” even if I’m working with a juvenile offender who is detailing some grandiose story that is obviously untrue. It’s easy enough to simply say, “30 times! Gosh! That’s sure a lot of times. Do you think maybe it could be a little less than that?” And then give an opportunity to reconsider. If they persist, with a child as young as you describe, I might say something like, “My goodness, you are quite the storyteller today!” It’s good to confront children when you feel they aren’t being honest, but a child as young as those you are referring to were perhaps exaggerating in a moment of stress and alarm. During emotional stress, our cognition actually decreases and your grandson probably picked a large number at random to convey, in panic, that he had been stung many times in the past and was feeling fearful.

The next time your DIL reacts with such strong emotion over a child’s comment, maybe you need to privately ask her afterward about it. Something non-threatening, like… “Susan, do you think Johnny really meant to lie about how many times he was stung? Or do you think he was feeling stressed and scared and wanted to let us know how fearful he was?” Even if she doesn’t want to talk about it or looks at you blankly, or even if she gets angry, you are planting seeds. There is nothing wrong with asking those questions in sincerity and with love. Perhaps the more she is challenged the more carefully she will begin to look at how she interacts with her children.

Furthermore, always ask what you do not understand or have a curiosity about. Maybe on a Sunday afternoon, after mass, begin a conversation with her about how lovely church was for you that morning. Ask her about her service and what sorts of topics are covered in the parenting classes. Create conversation about it. She may be quiet about it at first, but perhaps it is stressful for her to have to act in a suspecting way toward you when it’s never occurred to her in the past.

Something you may or may not want to consider is…asking to attend Mormon services. I assume you’re a solid Catholic and in no danger of losing your faith if subjected to some of their “doctrine.” Show an interest in their faith because it clearly is going to be the faith of your grandchildren. Tell them you want to be able to know and understand what is so dear to them and how much you want to be able to discuss their faith as your grandchildren grow up. This will give you an inside look as to what sort of brainwashing is going on over there, and may even be a side-door into discussions about the truth from a Catholic perspective. You’ll have to be able to put up with anti-Catholic bias and to deal with the intial suspicion. Just be a witness in your smile, your charitable way of relating to others, your concern and compassion and most of all with your certainty of the Catholic Church being the one true church. You will only be showing them that you do not feel threatened by others practicing their faith and that you only want to know more and understand more of their perspective.

Also. Do you think she needs more help than she has with the children? This can cause a major lack of patience in even the most caring parent. Maybe you want to volunteer yourself to assist her once a week or more on a scheduled basis? Let her see you with the children again and again, give her no reason to be uncomfortable and fight the annoyance at feeling “watched.” The more you are a regular presence, the more she will have to emotionally admit to herself that you are not a danger to her children in any way shape or form. Be kind in all you do.

I will pray for you!

 

[nanisco]

Thank you for your response. I’ll answer your questions and thoughts as I read along.

My son is a pilot, and at the time this was all transpiring, he had just been called by the airline and advised that he had two hours to get to the airport and go out on a flight. Obviously, I was unable to talk to him then, but now that he is home again, we talked briefly and are going to meet later this week for a heart-to-heart.

My DIL has stated before that her Dad used to go through depressions in earlier years and that sometimes she also feels somewhat depressed. She had a baby 4 months ago. I talked with some therapists that I used to work with, and one possibility they suggested is that she might have post partum depression.

I agree with you regarding a good response for my grandson’s remark about 30 stings. A conversation between a child and an adult is rarely on an equal platform. Children may not have the confidence that an adult will otherwise take them seriously, so they try to build up a story hoping they will be heard. Many children elaborate or exaggerate a story. It is not a “lie” nor do I think a parent, or any adult for that matter, should be “name-calling” a child. A child will learn effectively by the way he or she is treated, and I think it can really shoot down their self-esteem.

I don’t want to cause any problems in my son’s marriage or become viewed as the interferring, controlling mother-in-law. When I talk with my son, I will ask him if he opposes me speaking up and saying anything, and if so, what he prefers that I do. I trust his judgement. If I do make an effort to talk with my DIL regarding these issues, I will be very non-threatening and sincere with my concern for everyone involved. I may have to try communication using “baby-steps.”

I have done a lot of research and reading and the more I learn about the Mormon faith, the greater my distaste for it becomes. When missionaries have asked me to read certain parts of the Book of Mormon and then pray for an answer regarding their truth (burning in my bosom), I would just get that sick feeling in my gut. I have always been pleasant, but honest. I actually always enjoy talking religion, but I’m not sure I could tolerate a Mormon service. Neither my son nor I have yet accepted that the Mormon faith is going to be the faith of my grandchildren.

Regarding your last thoughts, I babysit the grandchildren or have some of them over to spend the night at my house frequently. I have asked my DIL if she would appreciate some help, especially after the last baby was born, but she always says no, that she can handle everything and will call me if she needs help. I’m very good with children – after all, I raised a wonderful, loving, responsible son. But what I feel is that I am considered a threat to my grandchildren simply because I’m a non-Mormon. Mormons have a very particular, strict way of raising children in their culture, and stay to themselves as much as possible. It is not advised that they learn about other religions in order to prevent any influence. My DIL’s mother stated long ago that she didn’t want my son and her daughter to marry because it would “water down their religion.” Since then several of their other grandchildren have left the Mormon faith and they are determined that they don’t lose any more. My DIL has said that she grew up with the very strong belief that she had to please her parents, and it is obvious that she is still caught there. I’m sure her parents put a lot of pressure on her regarding her and my son’s children.

My priority is my grandchildren’s well-being. It really hurt to see them talked to in such a demeaning manner – their pain and frustration was so clear. Out of their love and dedication that their children are raised to achieve exaltation (become a god or goddess) and reach Celestial Heaven, the Mormon faith teaches parents and uses the methods of shame, guilt and fear.

Thank you for your prayers.

 

[Princess_Abby]

I’m very happy your son is so involved and willing to speak to you about these situations you describe. It also shows remarkable consideration on your part to wait and ask him whether or not he feels it is acceptable for you to question his wife about these issues. You sound like an extremely conscientious person.

It does appear that post-partum depression could definitely be part of the issue for your DIL, as anyone who has experienced minor episodes of depression in the past are more at risk for developing PPD. The chances of PPD also increase after a few pregnancies.

I’m also happy to hear that neither you nor your son has accepted Mormonism as the faith of your grandchildren. (I perhaps inferred wrongly from your initial post, I apologize.) I would continue supporting your son with the reminder that he is the spiritual leader of your household. Perhaps you could ask him to read Ephesians 5. Were they married in the Catholic Church? If so, your DIL actually vowed to raise all children in the Church…

 

[nanisco]

Thank you for your amazingly quick response.

No, unfortunately, they were not married in the Catholic church. They spoke with the priest of our parish, however, my future DIL would not agree to be married in the Catholic church unless a Mormon official was allowed to participate in the ceremony. The priest would not agree to this, which I fully understand, however, it did give up any control. I was not at the meeting, but the priest apparently recommended that they not marry at all, which I also fully understand. I know that she never would have agreed to raise any children Catholic. My son and DIL agreed that none of the children would be baptised either Catholic or Mormon – that would be up to each child to decide once they reached age 18.

Thank you for making me aware of Ephesians 5. I will ask him to read it when we meet and strongly remind him that he is the spiritual leader of his family. That is a very comforting thought.

If you have any further thoughts, I would love to hear them. I will, however, keep the thread posted as I’m sure you would like to know how this problem evolves. Thank you very much for your interest and your thoughts.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Here is Ephesians 5:21-33, taken from the USCCB website, along with their short commentary:

21 5 Be subordinate to one another out of reverence for Christ. 6 22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. 24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her 26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, 27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. 33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband. 6 [21-33]

The apostle exhorts married Christians to a strong mutual love. Holding with Genesis 2:24 that marriage is a divine institution (Eph 5:31), Paul sees Christian marriage as taking on a new meaning symbolic of the intimate relationship of love between Christ and the church. The wife should serve her husband in the same spirit as that of the church’s service to Christ (Eph 5:22, 24), and the husband should care for his wife with the devotion of Christ to the church (Eph 5:25-30). Paul gives to the Genesis passage its highest meaning in the light of the union of Christ and the church, of which Christlike loyalty and devotion in Christian marriage are a clear reflection (Eph 5:31-33).

 

[Princess_Abby]

e5men.org/pages/

This is a link to a website which promotes prayer, fasting, sacrifice and the Eucharist (being offered) for the spiritual growth of a man’s bride, based on the verses I posted above. It is very simple and only requires that he offer up fasting on bread and water one day (sun up, to sun down) a month, specifically asking God to use his sacrifice for the spiritual growth of his wife. I think they are also asked to go to daily mass one day a month, too, and offer up Jesus in the blessed sacrament for their wife as well. Obviously both could be done on the same day. This could be something concrete that your son could do and choose to focus his prayer life upon doing.

Have you heard of the green scapular?

penitents.org/giftshopGscapular.html

The above link will give you a small history about it and also tell you that it is termed “the scapular of conversion.” Our Lady gave this scapular to a very holy Sister of Charity two centuries ago. Our Lady said, “The greatest graces come from using the scapular but these graces come in direct proportion to the degree of confidence in me which the user has.” Given that your DIL probably will not touch nor even want such a “Catholic thing” anywhere near her, your son will need to place it somewhere she perhaps will not see…the pocket of a coat he rarely wears, placed in their closet…underneath their mattress…somewhere like that. Your son will also need to pray daily these words: “Immaculate heart of Mary, pray for us now and at the hour of our death.” Many, MANY people can attest to the power of Our Lady through the green scapular…she has converted many, many souls through the simple devotion of a spouse (or mother in law ).

If your son feels strange about putting it somewhere she can’t see, he could of course verbalize his intention to her and simply say that he is praying for her soul and trying to only lead her closer to the Lord. However, I would also remind my son that his wife is not yet walking in the light and he must use his judgement to protect and guide her, even without her knowledge. Just my thought! He will know best.

Also, perhaps you would like to develop a special devotion to St. Monica. She is a beautiful example of what praying for conversion is apt to do. Her son is St. Augustine. She prayed literally her entire life that her son would turn away from his sin and come to the Lord. Obviously he did, and is an extremely well-known saint who rejected his former way of living and embraced the Church. So much so that he became a saint!

There is something called the “St. Monica Sodality,” which is a recitation of the St. Monica novena (a nine day prayer) and the Holy Rosary each time after. For some odd reason, the text of the novena does not seem to be listed anywhere on the net (very strange), but I found an address at where you can order one:

A St. Monica novena leaflet is published by
Franciscan Mission Associates
274-280 West Lincoln Avenue
P.O. Box 598
Mount Vernon, NY 10551-0589

Just send a short note and I’m sure they will happily send you a leaflet in return.

 

[Princess_Abby]

Okay! I’m done with all my links for you.

Other suggestions you might consider (with your son’s permission, of course):

When the older two spend the night, perhaps they could do so on a Saturday night, and also attend an evening 5pm mass with you? Or go on a Sunday morning together? Or is this strictly off limits in the mind of your DIL? It is between them, of course, but as the spiritual leader of the household, your son has every right to ask that his children worship where he chooses. Or at the very least, to be exposed to his faith.

Do you have sacramental items around your home? Like little statuettes of Mary or Jesus, perhaps the Holy Rosary or a picture of a saint or two? I would leave these out and let my little grandchildren ask their questions, for they will indeed ask–at some point. Do they pray before meals with you? Do you say bedtime prayers with them? Just a suggestion. When they are older, they will remember these times with you and look back at the simple devotion you lovingly gave to Our Lord and wonder about the faith their beloved grandmother (and father) had. It may behoove them to seek out more information as older teenagers or adults.

Did you know that Utah is the leading state in the country for use of anti-depressants? The Mormon community, especially women, has been crying out for help. A simple search on google provides a wealth of information, but I noticed you said that you’ve been doing exactly that are probably very informed about the issues your DIL faces. When you meet with your son, please exhort him to be very careful in looking for signs of PPD with his wife. It is extremely treatable and shouldn’t be left unmanaged.

Well, those are all the thoughts that come to mind now…and yes, please keep this thread updated! I will continue to keep your son, his family, and you in my prayers.