Catholic Motherhood and Choice

[mt_gooseberry]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will. Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

 

[smswife]

I’ll start with a plea to other posters on this thread to be charitable.

The Church allows all Catholics to use their well informed consciences to make morally prudent choices for themselves and their families.

So yes, except for abortion, in all the examples you mention it IS “her body, her choice”. In abortion of course there is someone else’s body and life to consider.

There is no universal moral obligation for Catholic mothers to choose to/ choose not to: breastfeed, homeschool, cloth diaper, circumcise, avoid meat (except on Friday’s in Lent), vaccinate, grow organic vegetables, veil, wear pants, work outside the home, use daycare, drink alcohol, allow her children to read Harry Potter, attend Latin Mass, etc. (What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

I hope to continue to try to work and pray on my own plank and not worry about the splinters of others.

 

[1ke]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will. Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

You cannot equate matters that are in the realm of prudential decision making with matters that are intrinsically evil.

The things you list above, like them or not, aren’t intrinsically evil-- they are prudential matters. And, those using the argument that it is their choice are correct.

Abortion, OTOH, is **intrinsically **evil. Therefore, it is **never **a moral choice.

There is no comparison.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. ** I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will.** Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

First off… let’s not - ever - compare the horrors of abortion… the killing of a human being… to these other issues. Take that argument off the table immediately.
I get what you’re trying to say about the “my body, my choice” attitude, but it’s not the same thing.

Secondly, I would hesitate to assume every single woman is doing this for “convenience” reasons.
Sure, some do, but I would give some benefit of the doubt to the fact that many are uneducated on the subject and may be influenced by busy doctors trying to work all of their patients into their schedules.
Also, many women make these choices for reasons that may not be obvious. I know one woman who has a hormonal response to breastfeeding that sent her into suicidal depression. I know another who had similar issues about giving birth.
There is usually a lot more behind these things… never safe to assume in all cases.

I’ll start with a plea to other posters on this thread to be charitable.

The Church allows all Catholics to use their well informed consciences to make morally prudent choices for themselves and their families.

So yes, except for abortion, in all the examples you mention it IS “her body, her choice”. In abortion of course there is someone else’s body and life to consider.

There is no universal moral obligation for Catholic mothers to choose to/ choose not to: breastfeed, homeschool, cloth diaper, circumcise, avoid meat (except on Friday’s in Lent), vaccinate, grow organic vegetables, veil, wear pants, work outside the home, use daycare, drink alcohol, allow her children to read Harry Potter, attend Latin Mass, etc. (What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

I hope to continue to try to work and pray on my own plank and not worry about the splinters of others.

You cannot equate matters that are in the realm of prudential decision making with matters that are intrinsically evil.

The things you list above, like them or not, aren’t intrinsically evil-- they are prudential matters. And, those using the argument that it is their choice are correct.

Abortion, OTOH, is **intrinsically **evil. Therefore, it is **never **a moral choice.

There is no comparison.

DITTO on both of the above!!!

 

[1ke]

(What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

Communion on the tongue and Attachment Parenting/co-sleeping.

 

[smswife]

Communion on the tongue and Attachment Parenting/co-sleeping.

Home births
Holding hands for the Our Father

 

[Lacour]

I think it IS important to keep the mommy (and family) in mind and not just the child. Sometimes as parents we have to make a less desirable choice for our kids because it’s the better choice for our selves or family. I don’t see anything wrong with that, and in fact as kids get older it helps them see how sometimes they sacrifice for others and sometimes people sacrifice for them.

Using one of the things the OP listed as an example, I only nursed/pumped with my daughter for 8 weeks. We struggled with nursing, neither of us could really get the hang of it. I was miserable and stressed out. I felt like a failure every time I couldn’t pump enough for a feeding and had to give her formula. It ruined the beginning of motherhood for me. I felt terrible switching to all formula, but once the pressure was off I really got to enjoy my daughter and being a mommy. Nutritionally formula may have been less desirable but I think it was a net positive for all involved. Then a couple of years later when my son was born, nursing wasn’t so hard. He was better at it, I wasn’t as nervous about the other aspects of parenting and could focus on nursing better. I ended up nursing him until just shy of 2. I don’t know if I’d have been willing to try if I’d kept struggling with my daughter because it was such a negative experience.

I guess what I’m saying is that parenting is a not single choice. It’s the net effect of all the choices we make.

 

[NSFrame]

OP, don’t make assumptions about others’ motivations.

Guess what, I formula feed and I had a c-section. Did I make a choice ahead of time to do either of those because I couldn’t be bothered to try? No, it’s just the way the cookie crumbled. On the other hand, I did not go to the absolute end of the line limit to make sure I had a vaginal birth or was able to breastfeed for one year. I made reasonable attempts until the benefits of the alternative outweighed the benefits of sticking to the original plan. There’s a reason c-sections and formula feeding are so common - they are modern innovations in healthcare and should be taken advantage of when it’s prudent to do so. It’s not because women are lazy, it’s because natural childbirth is extremely difficult, and because breastfeeding without the proper support is much harder than can be anticipated by an already overwhelmed, exhausted new mother.

 

[marian_love]

I’ll start with a plea to other posters on this thread to be charitable.

The Church allows all Catholics to use their well informed consciences to make morally prudent choices for themselves and their families.

So yes, except for abortion, in all the examples you mention it IS “her body, her choice”. In abortion of course there is someone else’s body and life to consider.

There is no universal moral obligation for Catholic mothers to choose to/ choose not to: breastfeed, homeschool, cloth diaper, circumcise, avoid meat (except on Friday’s in Lent), vaccinate, grow organic vegetables, veil, wear pants, work outside the home, use daycare, drink alcohol, allow her children to read Harry Potter, attend Latin Mass, etc. (What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

I hope to continue to try to work and pray on my own plank and not worry about the splinters of others.

Very well said!!!

 

[Lacour]

I also want to add something I said on a previous thread, unless we are talking about a matter of morality where we should be guided by the church, it’s important to remember that different people can come to different conclusions from the same data because individual interpretations will be colored by our personal experiences, desires, goals and fears.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

There is no universal moral obligation for Catholic mothers to choose to/ choose not to: breastfeed, homeschool, cloth diaper, circumcise, avoid meat (except on Friday’s in Lent), vaccinate, grow organic vegetables, veil, wear pants, work outside the home, use daycare, drink alcohol, allow her children to read Harry Potter, attend Latin Mass, etc. (What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

Communion on the tongue and Attachment Parenting/co-sleeping.

Home births
Holding hands for the Our Father

:yup:

You left out WOMEN WORKING OUTSIDE THE HOME!!!

Great responses!

OP, I am sure you didn’t mean this, but it sounds as if you are somehow saying that a devout Catholic woman cannot choose a C-section or choose not to breastfeed…(?) Maybe you think devout women are always very traditional, very natural, very… ??? Well Catholic women come in all shapes and kinds…From the natural, homeschooling, anti-vaccination, stay at home breastfeeding attachment parenting ones, to the ones who have a career, who put their kids in every sport possible, who never breastfed and wouldn’t dream of homeschooling. And every one of them can be devout, or not, and any of those choices would essentially have NO effect on her spirituality or lack thereof.

 

[FullOfThought]

I have to say I see where you’re coming from. Assuming it is truly for convience women opt for a csec or to breast feed.

I know a few women who had elective csec’s to and I quote “Keep things intact for their husbands” and some women who choose to breast feed and follow it by saying “it’s okay I’ll get them put back where they belong once all my children finish nursing”

I do disagree with this, but it’s the stress of society put on women. Many of my friends feel their college education, which we pretty much had to complete by choice of society, is now a complete waste since their at home with children.

In my opinion I yet again blame our cultire.
Ive tried to surround myself with women of similar beliefs but know idea where all the mid/late 20’s go to mass… We’ve looked everywhere!!!

 

[Corki]

There is no universal moral obligation for Catholic mothers to choose to/ choose not to: breastfeed, homeschool, cloth diaper, circumcise, avoid meat (except on Friday’s in Lent), vaccinate, grow organic vegetables, veil, wear pants, work outside the home, use daycare, drink alcohol, allow her children to read Harry Potter, attend Latin Mass, etc. (What controversial CAF topic did I forget?)

THIS!

because of this:

I also want to add something I said on a previous thread, unless we are talking about a matter of morality where we should be guided by the church, it’s important to remember that different people can come to different conclusions from the same data because individual interpretations will be colored by our personal experiences, desires, goals and fears.

 

[mt_gooseberry]

I want to thank everyone for cautioning me about guessing at other’s motivations, and about worrying about the speck in other’s eyes and not the plank in my own. It was all valid.

I guess I was just voicing my personal frustrations. You know, ranting…blowing off steam…whining, even. My cousin just gave birth via planned c-section because she was convinced it was less pain for her, and announced that she doesn’t care how healthy breastfeeding is, she would rather bottle-feed because breastfeeding seems like too much work. I went through hell to be able to fully breastfeed both of mine, and gave birth naturally with my last one and instead of my “choices” being applauded, I got flack for being proud of it. Maybe I was just looking for a pat on the back for MY choices and going about it the wrong way.

Anyway, thanks for your gentle correction.

 

[mark_a]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will. Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

I, for one, see the logic and a well formed, “Catholic” conscience in your post. God bless you!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I want to thank everyone for cautioning me about guessing at other’s motivations, and about worrying about the speck in other’s eyes and not the plank in my own. It was all valid.

I guess I was just voicing my personal frustrations. You know, ranting…blowing off steam…whining, even. My cousin just gave birth via planned c-section because she was convinced it was less pain for her, and announced that she doesn’t care how healthy breastfeeding is, she would rather bottle-feed because breastfeeding seems like too much work. I went through hell to be able to fully breastfeed both of mine, and gave birth naturally with my last one and instead of my “choices” being applauded, I got flack for being proud of it. Maybe I was just looking for a pat on the back for MY choices and going about it the wrong way.

Anyway, thanks for your gentle correction.

Here,

:grouphug:

There’s no backpatting smiley but here’s a big hug. Your cousin is deluded - I’ll bet she had LOTS more pain than you did, or I did. But even if she didn’t…Her choices are hers alone. And yours are yours. There’s no competition. We all just have to live the best we can, and if her choices are not going to do harm to her child…well…

 

[Lacour]

I went through hell to be able to fully breastfeed both of mine, and gave birth naturally with my last one and instead of my “choices” being applauded, I got flack for being proud of it. Maybe I was just looking for a pat on the back for MY choices and going about it the wrong way.

Anyway, thanks for your gentle correction.

:hug3:

Well that is just wrong! You should absolutely not get flack for making the choices you felt were best for you & baby. I’m sending applause your way for being a conscientious and hard working mama. The world can never have enough of those and too often it gets overlooked!!!

 

[Kit15]

I went through hell to be able to fully breastfeed both of mine, and gave birth naturally with my last one and instead of my “choices” being applauded, I got flack for being proud of it. Maybe I was just looking for a pat on the back for MY choices and going about it the wrong way.

As a person who had an epi and decided to use formula because I wanted one thing (just ONE THING) about babycare that I already knew how to do…join the club. :console:

We all have received flack from someone else regarding the choices we’ve made. You’re never going to do anything right for some people. You’re disgusting for exposing your breasts. You’re lazy for using formula. You’re selfish for getting painkillers. You’re only in it for the glory if you go natural. Just feed the babies and get them here safely. Seesh!

You’re a fine mom because you’ve made the choices you thought were best for you, your baby, and your family at large. As long as it’s working, you don’t need validation from other people. They don’t know your story. They don’t know why you made your choices.

Making motherhood a competition is just one giant race to the bottom and no one wins.

 

[twoangels]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will. Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

Just because those who support a bad cause will come up with generalized slogans to defend their position does not mean that we should take that slogan and take the opposite position. Certainly, when it comes to truly medical decisions, we do have a choice. If I don’t want to go through the surgery my doctor recommends, I have the right to decline. I certainly can’t force my doctor to do something against her conscience and I can’t force the insurance company to pay for something that isn’t covered because its not medically necessary, but I do have rights.

Likewise there is nothing immoral about not breastfeeding. As for C-section, elective c-sections may happen but they’re not the primary reason that the c-section rate is so high. Certainly there is plenty of reasons to give birth vaginally, and there is plenty of reason for insurance not to cover it if its unnecessary.

 

[Et_Cetera]

Lately I’ve been hearing a lot of Catholic women using the tired old refrain of pro-Choicers–“It’s my body and I can do what I want with it.” Even if what they want to do is not in the best interests of their child(ren). Some refuse to breastfeed, not because they can’t, but because they don’t want to, and they say they shouldn’t have to subject their body to something they don’t want to do. Or they choose to have a C-section when there is no medical reason to do so, because they see more inconvenience in vaginal birth. I feel like this attitude is basically the same as women who argue that abortion is OK, because it is their body to do with what they will. Has anybody else noticed this kind of attitude among otherwise devout women? Does anybody else even see this as a problem? I guess I just feel like it shouldn’t be about what is most comfortable or convenient or pleasant for us as women, but rather what is best for those we are bringing or have brought into this world. Thoughts?

Why are you so concerned with the actions of others? If you’re a man, then this is particularly strange.