Catholic music now available for all parishes!

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scylla

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Attention all faithful Catholics…

The Gregorian Missal has been put up online for free download, which means that the music of Vatican II can be available for all parishes for free. No need to waste money on disposable missals and music that is not prescribed by Vatican II. The official Church music for all the Masses is available.

Thanks to the Solesmes Abbey
Right click and save as to download., or just click to view(High speed internet required)

Now no one has an excuse not to sing the Catholic Music that has been sung as the Mass developed from the very beginning!

I encourage everyone to share this with their music directors, so they can see the riches our Church provides for us and how the people can pray the Mass, in actual participation. People can participate fully by praying and singing the Mass in union with the Liturgy.

Why pick popular songs and ignore what the Church has always done, why not pray the Mass along with the Liturgy using the Missal? I know it is much easier to go with what is popular but we should seek the best for God and that not necessarily is the easiest.

In Christ
Scylla
 
I do not know how to also, I am not that musically inclined, but I am willing to learn.

That is the job of Catholic musicians and music directors. To learn, and teach.

When I fell in love with my wife, I didn’t know Spanish, but I learned a few words and a bit more to get to know her better and eventually she also learned English.

Being Catholic isn’t always easy and serving others in a ministry sometimes means we need to take up a cross and serve Jesus.

In Christ
Scylla
 
scylla said:
Why pick popular songs and ignore what the Church has always done, why not pray the Mass along with the Liturgy using the Missal? I know it is much easier to go with what is popular but we should seek the best for God and that not necessarily is the easiest.
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This book contains the Ordinary and Proper parts of the Mass, in Latin, in Gregorian notation.

It does not contain any hymns, which is what I think would normally be contrasted with “popular songs.”

I think what would be more useful for most parishes would be a book with one or two simple settings of the Mass Ordinary (in modern music notation), along with a selection of traditional hymns (a mix of English and Latin).
 
I really don’t understand what’s so difficult about engraving the music in standard musical notation, and it upsets me frankly.

I have a lot of experience with music, so I could probably figure the intervals out myself (just take one line off a staff) but it does look intimidating and I could see why someone with less experience in music wouldn’t want to bother themselves with it.

What’s better? Having nobody at all sing the music because they can’t read neumes or losing the “nuance” associated with that kind of notation but having it transcribed into a format that most musicians can read and understand?
 
passus said:
I really don’t understand what’s so difficult about engraving the music in standard musical notation, and it upsets me frankly.
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Well it shouldn’t. If you have lots of musical experience, as you say, then you should be able to pick up the basics in a single sitting. I already sent you a link about this in another thread. Did you ever look at that?

The problem (and I can assure you that it is a problem) with translating neumes into modern musical notation is that Gregorian chant has no fixed rhythm or meter, but when you write it in modern notation you write it as though it does have a fixed meter, and people will sing it that way. To put it another way, there is no perfect translation between chant notation and modern notation, and you will lose something important if you attempt such a translation. You can deride this difference as “nuance,” but the fluidity of chant is an essential component of its nature, and there’s no good reason to give that up.

BTW, I have heard people in the pews, most of them obviously not musicians, sing chant quite well. Some of them probably taught themselves to read the neumes, but I think for most it was entirely an aural learning, just as it used to be before chant was first written down. And I think going back to an aural learning, for the people singing the Ordinary parts, is actually a very good idea.
 
There was an explanation on why it is written this way as opposed to standard musical notation but I would have to look up the article. I am just a pew sitter, not a musician so I did not really pay attention to the article.

Yet this is our heritage and we should learn all about it. Maybe someone can translate the music into standard notation?

I see that there is what we sing outlined for each Sunday, if you click on the rest of the PDF.

God Bless
Scylla
 
PhilotheaZ said:
This book contains the Ordinary and Proper parts of the Mass, in Latin, in Gregorian notation.

It does not contain any hymns, which is what I think would normally be contrasted with “popular songs.”

I think what would be more useful for most parishes would be a book with one or two simple settings of the Mass Ordinary (in modern music notation), along with a selection of traditional hymns (a mix of English and Latin).
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That almost exists now, in the booklet “Jubilate Deo”. This booklet doesn’t have anything in English, but otherwise pretty much has what you describe, and it can be found in both neume and modern notation.
 
Thanks VociMike for explaining why it cannot be just written in standard musical notes, as I did not understand why.

God Bless
Scylla
 
scylla said:
Thanks VociMike for explaining why it cannot be just written in standard musical notes, as I did not understand why.
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Another way of looking at the problem is that an ideal for Catholic sacred music, which Gregorian chant epitomizes, is that the music serves the text rather than the text serving the music. Thus in well-sung Gregorian Chant the musical intervals are fluid because spoken text is fluid. You can hear this on any recording of a good schola. But when you lock the musical intervals into multiples of some fixed interval, as modern notation would suggest, then you have taken a step towards forcing the text to serve the music.
 
Interesting, I will have to learn more about it when I get a chance.

Thanks
Scylla
 
scylla said:
Interesting, I will have to learn more about it when I get a chance.

Thanks
Scylla
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One thing to do is just listen to recordings (Choral Treasure, youtube, etc). The best chant will float, soar, glide, be like gentle waves on water, or like a feather in the breeze. But when not done as well, the chant will sound clumpy, “note-y”, like marching up and down steps.
 
VociMike said:
Did you ever look at that?
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Maybe.
VociMike said:
The problem (and I can assure you that it is a problem) with translating neumes into modern musical notation is that Gregorian chant has no fixed rhythm or meter, but when you write it in modern notation you write it as though it does have a fixed meter, and people will sing it that way.
Click to expand...
So…you write it in free meter and you get something that looks like this:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
VociMike said:
Thus in well-sung Gregorian Chant the musical intervals are fluid because spoken text is fluid. You can hear this on any recording of a good schola. But when you lock the musical intervals into multiples of some fixed interval, as modern notation would suggest, then you have taken a step towards forcing the text to serve the music.
Click to expand...
Uh, what? A perfect fourth written in neumes sounds the same as a perfect fourth written on a five line staff.
 
VociMike said:
That almost exists now, in the booklet “Jubilate Deo”. This booklet doesn’t have anything in English, but otherwise pretty much has what you describe, and it can be found in both neume and modern notation.
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Can you give me a link on where to obtain this (perhaps with a look inside)? I am looking for a good parish resource.
 
passus said:
Maybe.
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Yeah, OK
So…you write it in free meter and you get something that looks like this:
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http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n110/honorspianist/chant.png
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But all the notes are still the same length, or exact multiples thereof, according to the rules of modern notation. And that is the antithesis of what is desired. And if you tell them “don’t sing it the way it’s written, sing it this way” then you might as well just have them sing from the neumes.

Look, I just offered what I hoped would be a useful explanation. If you want to be mad about the use of neumes, be mad at 1200 years of Catholic monks and religious, and be mad at the Abbey of Solesmes, and be mad at the Vatican. But I know enough about this field to know you’re not going to change any minds.
 
passus said:
Check out this link, PhilotheaZ. 🙂

ceciliaschola.org/notes/jubilatedeo.html
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Thanks for the link. But it’s still in Gregorian notation. I have been struggling to make the transition myself, so I think it might be too much of a stretch for the people in the pews. Trying to get them to accept a little Latin is enough; this “hen scratching” might cause more alienation.

I know a woman who is an organist and a music teacher, and she refuses to even look at Gregorian notation. I think it will be an even harder sell for those with little or no musical training.
 
PhilotheaZ said:
Thanks for the link. But it’s still in Gregorian notation. I have been struggling to make the transition myself, so I think it might be too much of a stretch for the people in the pews. Trying to get them to accept a little Latin is enough; this “hen scratching” might cause more alienation.

I know a woman who is an organist and a music teacher, and she refuses to even look at Gregorian notation. I think it will be an even harder sell for those with little or no musical training.
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There are two links under the words “Short form ordinary in modern notation” and the notes are written on a five line staff.
 
PhilotheaZ said:
Thanks for the link. But it’s still in Gregorian notation. I have been struggling to make the transition myself, so I think it might be too much of a stretch for the people in the pews. Trying to get them to accept a little Latin is enough; this “hen scratching” might cause more alienation.

I know a woman who is an organist and a music teacher, and she refuses to even look at Gregorian notation. I think it will be an even harder sell for those with little or no musical training.
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Either GIA or OCP (maybe both?) has the booklet set in modern notation. I can’t remember finding anything in modern notation online.

EDIT: OK, I see it’s on the link passus provided.
 
VociMike said:
Either GIA or OCP (maybe both?) has the booklet set in modern notation. I can’t remember finding anything in modern notation online.

EDIT: OK, I see it’s on the link passus provided.
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This looks like GIA’s.

giamusic.com/search_details.cfm?title_id=626

I wasn’t able to find anything called “Jubilate Deo” by OCP, although they sell a number of chant resources in both Gregorian and standard notation.
 
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