Catholic Nazis?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CatholicPatriot
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CatholicPatriot

Guest
Hello, I’m new here and joined in absolute need of a Catholic rebuttle to a webpage I came across.

I ask you not to visit this website if you are not ready for a shock :eek:
nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Meh, I’ve been a Catholic for just a few months now and I have no doubt that I’m where God wants me to be,( Baptized in the Roman Church but seperated from God when my mother married a Methodist who enrolled me in a Baptist school but came back when Pope John Paul II died ) but, quite unreadily, I stumbled across the webpage posted above. Well, my questions are
  1. If the Church supported the Nazis, did God? ( NO!, I am not a racist. I’m not even white and I utterly hate racism.)
  2. Were/are some Catholic leaders Nazis?
    3.Did the Church support Nazis in the 1st place?
I hope I can read some answers that’ll put my soul to rest.
 
There are some disturbing pictures in that gallery, all right! It looks to me as if some of the clergy in Germany tried to get along with the Nazis, especially in the beginning, when it may not have been clear where they were going with it. Perhaps some of them supported Hitler all the way to the end. This does not mean that the Church “supported Nazis”. In fact, many Christians, including Catholic clergy, were being sent to the concentration camps right along with the Jews. To express public opposition meant arrest. The only safe way to work to help the Jews and others who were being persecuted was from behind the scenes. I can’t speak for God, but it would seem sacreligious to suggest He would condone the Nazi agenda.
 
Quote from Martin Niemoller,Berlin Lutheran Pastor,who initially supported Hitler.He was arrested by the Gestapo in 1938 and sent to Dachau concentration camp.He was freed by the Allies in 1945:-

“In Germany,the Nazis first came for the Communists,and i didn’t speak up because i wasn’t a Communist.Then they came for the
Jews,and i didn’t speak up because i wasn’t a Jew.Then they came for the Trade Unionists,and i didn’t speak up because i wasn’t a Trade Unionist.Then they came for the Catholics,but i didn’t speak up because i was a Protestant.Then they came for me,and by that time there was noone left to speak up for me.”

The Italian Leader,Mussolini(Hitler’s pal),used to call priests
"black germs"before he came to power.Later,he became very pragmatic and did a lot of sucking up to them.
 
Martin Niemoller was a liberal and got his history wrong.

First the communists came for the Christians. In 1917 (Russia), 1919 (Hungary) and in 1940 (Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia) . Over 7 million Christians were murdered before Auschwitz opened its gate (and when it did, the first inmates were Polish Catholics). In 1940, nearly 1.5 million Poles, mostly Catholics, were herded into cattle cars and sent to concentration camps in the Soviet Union (the father of a friend of mine was one who survived).

The communists and Nazis worked together (coordinating strikes for instance) to crush the Weimar Republic. The Nazi party tapped out what little middle class support it has by 1929 and recruited from the Communist Party. The Hoover institute has the posters. Stalin’s agent in the Reischstag, Will Munzenburg smirked that Nazism was “Brown on the outside, red on the inside”.

Fascism was never a Christian movement. Mussolini was anti-clerical. His mentor, Angelica Balabanoff, the editor of his his fascist newspaper “Gierarchia” Margareta Sarfatti, his banker Toeplitz, his economic advisors Ancona, Luria, and Meyer, his finance minister Guido Jung, the fascist party ideologue Guido Arias and prominant members of his fascist militia were Jewish.

Franco saved over 60,000 Jews from Hitler. Any Jew who made it to Spain was safe. Catholic Spain also refused Hilter’s request that German troops be allowed to transit Spain in order to take Gibraltar. Had Franco said yes, Rommel would have taken Egypt and pushed through the oil fields of the mideast. The mediterranean would have been a Axis Sea. One Catholic, Franco, prevented that from occurring.

Catholic Poland never collaborator with Nazi Germany and the Polish Home Army (resistence) aided the Jews in their fight during the siege of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Lots lies on the internet. That Catholics and Christians were the driving force behind Nazism is one of the sickest.
 
I googled just plain “nobeliefs.com”, & it is an atheist/agnostic site. They are antiCatholic/antiChristian. So this kind of poison is about what I would expect.
I did look at some of the pictures. I think that we have to realize that many were greatly fooled by the Nazis. Hitler was a convincing speaker. The Nazis were very good at hiding their true agenda.They were even better at hiding the death camps.
We have to realize that many people also may have paid public assent, while opposing Naziism in private. (Oskar Schindler was a Nazi party member!) Some of the clergy shown did not look very enthusiastic about their salutes, IMHO.
I am not making excuses. I am pointing out that **this site has an agenda. **We need not be surprised that they show a picture of a priest making a Nazi salute, while omitting any mention of Maximilian Kolbe! They show Nazis in front of churches, but omit the stories of brave German Christians–Catholic & Protestant, lay & clergy–who worked to save Jews from the death camps. Many of them died as a result. Others were imprisoned & somehow survived.
We need not be shocked by the fact that evil can put on a pleasing face when it wants to; the devil himself was once an angel of light…Try not to be too troubled by these things. They are just more propaganda.
God bless.
 
40.png
CatholicPatriot:
Hello, I’m new here and joined in absolute need of a Catholic rebuttle to a webpage I came across.

I ask you not to visit this website if you are not ready for a shock :eek:
nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

Meh, I’ve been a Catholic for just a few months now and I have no doubt that I’m where God wants me to be,( Baptized in the Roman Church but seperated from God when my mother married a Methodist who enrolled me in a Baptist school but came back when Pope John Paul II died ) but, quite unreadily, I stumbled across the webpage posted above. Well, my questions are
  1. If the Church supported the Nazis, did God? ( NO!, I am not a racist. I’m not even white and I utterly hate racism.)
  2. Were/are some Catholic leaders Nazis?
    3.Did the Church support Nazis in the 1st place?
I hope I can read some answers that’ll put my soul to rest.
Click to expand...
No it does not shock me nor does it disturb my faith in the Church. Like the French Revolutionaries, Hitler both feared and despised the power of religion as an alternative source of authority. During the Revolution the French established a “Constitutional Church” in opposition to the Pope. Many priests succumbed to this church, including Talleyrand who became the leading bishop. Many priests also payed with their lives for opposing it. Likewise Hitler tried to establish a “Reich Church” under his control. Muller was a Lutheran bishop who played the role of Talleyrand. Hitler failed to co-opt the Catholic Church due to the role of the Papacy but many priests felt it politic to co-operate. It should be remembered that Himmler forbade any SS member to attend Catholic services and a number of generals were penalised for remaining staunch Catholics. The attempt to link the Catholic Church to the Nazis is just anti-catholic hate disguised as history. Certainly individual catholics may have acted shamefully but many many acted at the risk of their lives to save Jews and others slated for death by the Nazis. Don’t allow anti-catholics to impose a false view of history.
 
40.png
CatholicPatriot:
Hello, I’m new here and joined in absolute need of a Catholic rebuttle to a webpage I came across.

I ask you not to visit this website if you are not ready for a shock :eek:
nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm
Click to expand...
The site doesn’t merit rebuttal, but since you asked:

Is the contention that some Catholics supported Hitler, therefore the Catholic Church is Nazi? If so, it is sensible to note the overwhelming lack of logic evidenced by such a contention.

Is the contention that Hitler was a Catholic? If so, one is hard-pressed to say he was anything approaching faithful to Catholicism. Hitler’s god was Hitler. The Hitler Youth even prayed a Nazi version of the Lord’s Prayer to Hitler.

It is impossible for someone to be a faithful Nazi and a faithful Catholic at the same time. The Catholic Church had made this abundantly clear well before Hitler came to power.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
40.png
InnocentIII:
Hitler failed to co-opt the Catholic Church due to the role of the Papacy
Click to expand...
That is not entirely true. Some historical facts:
Germany signed a treaty, the “Reichskonkordat”, with the Church in 1933 granting it huge priviledges (like right to collect taxes § 13; Catholic education in public schools § 21; clergy has the same status as civil servants § 5 etc etc), which is still in place today. After the war other religious organisations, like the big evangelical church and the Jewish community, signed similar treaties.
The Nazis later violated parts of the treaty mainly § 31 (right to attend Mass and special protection of Catholic organisations). Pope Pius XI spoke against the Nazi regime in his encyclica of 1937. The later Pope Pius XII btw was the one who negotiated the treaty.
 
I read about 700,000 Jews were saved thanks to the Catholics issuing fake baptismal certificates, as well as hiding Jews in convents and monastaries.
 
The Catholic Church as ALWAYS been against the Nazis and any discrimination. There will always be those who will try to bend the truth. The are WRONG.

A great book is “Pope Fiction” by Peter Madrid. He totally refutes the Nazi charge among many others.

God bless you and may His mother Mary hold you ever closer in union with her Son Jesus Christ our Saving Lord.
 
the Catholic Church was the principal and sometimes only voice speaking out in Germany against the Nazis, and was also one of Hitler’s principal targets. Catholics who promoted and served Nazi ideology were excommunicated. The website is full if historical inaccuracies and downright lies. there are numerous threads on this site refuting these lies, many of which originated from the Communists trying to attack Church influence during and after the war.
 
There was nothing Catholic or even Christian about the Nazis. Many of the rank and file soldiers were Christians, of course, but the party leadership that personified Nazism hated Christianity as a rival system of belief and source of authority. As opportunists, they would certainly intimidate and use whoever they could and dispose of those who wouldn’t play along. The Nazis themselves were, if anything, pagans and were even in the process of building a pagan religion based upon the old Germanic pantheon. There’s a fascinating book that addresses this in depth called “Salvation Is From The Jews” by Roy Schoeman, published by Ignatius Press.
 
Remember please the holocaust included a great many Catholics.

Remember too, St Maximillian Kolbe a Catholic priest who took the place of a man condemn to die in a concerntration camp.

Remember too, the Pope and others tried very hard to rescue and protect Jews, although there are a lot of so called histories that refute this.
 
40.png
puzzleannie:
the Catholic Church …] was also one of Hitler’s principal targets.
Click to expand...
That is not true. Catholics who opposed the Nazis were a prime target, but that applies to any political opposition, regardless of whether that opposition came from a Christian, Communist or other background. The only ones which were persecuted because of their religion were JWs and Jews.
Undeniably the Catholic Church endured difficult times in the 3rd Reich, but that too applies to any non-Nazi organisation. In fact, Hitler openly admired the Catholic Church, see “Mein Kampf”, Book 1, Chapter 5.
Catholics who promoted and served Nazi ideology were excommunicated.
Click to expand...
Then why was Hitler himself never excommunicated?
 
40.png
AnAtheist:
That is not true. Catholics who opposed the Nazis were a prime target…
Click to expand...
And any Catholic who heeded Church teaching necessarily opposed Nazism.
40.png
AnAtheist:
Then why was Hitler himself never excommunicated?
Click to expand...
By virtues of his actions and his politics, he excommunicated himself in the same way that today someone who procures an abortion is automatically excommunicated.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
In the election of 1933 that brought the Nazi Party to power.(they received about 40% of the Vote). Hitler received almost no support from the Catholic regions of Germany. The party receiving the next greatest number of votes was the Catholic Party.The party was abandoned as part of the Infamous concortant of 1933. This realpolitik move was cheered by the athestic community who feared parties based on religion more than they feared the Nazi’s. Hindsite is 20-20. The fact is Nazism is itself a religion based on prevailing
applied Darwinism of the times. Eugenics was very chic in the 20’s and 30’s. Not to mention condoned by science.These modern theories were opposed by that old fashion institution the Church. These beliels survive today in the pro-choice movement. Read the Papal Encyclicals of the times
Were the Catholic’s who bought into this garbage. (Of Course)
Just like they are Catholic’s today who make their own rules.
The entire war in Europe was based on race. The expansion of an Arian elete at the expense of the less than Human Slav.
A position heartily indorsed by your brethen of the times.
So please you phonies who condemn the Church of the early 20th
century. In 50 years will probably condemn the church for not stopping abortion. Sound redicules, They will point to great Catholic’s like John Kerry.(SIC.).
 
In the election of 1933 that brought the Nazi Party to power.(they received about 40% of the Vote). Hitler received almost no support from the Catholic regions of Germany. The party receiving the next greatest number of votes was the Catholic Party.The party was abandoned as part of the Infamous concortant of 1933. This realpolitik move was cheered by the athestic community who feared parties based on religion more than they feared the Nazi’s. Hindsite is 20-20. The fact is Nazism is itself a religion based on prevailing
applied Darwinism of the times. Eugenics was very chic in the 20’s and 30’s. Not to mention condoned by science.These modern theories were opposed by that old fashion institution the Church. These beliels survive today in the pro-choice movement. Read the Papal Encyclicals of the times
Were the Catholic’s who bought into this garbage. (Of Course)
Just like they are Catholic’s today who make their own rules.
The entire war in Europe was based on race. The expansion of an Arian elete at the expense of the less than Human Slav.
A position heartily indorsed by your brethen of the times.
So please you phonies who condemn the Church of the early 20th
century. In 50 years will probably condemn the church for not stopping abortion. Sound redicules, They will point to great Catholic’s like John Kerry.(SIC.).
 
There are so many boggous theories on how the Church didn’t do anything during this horribe time. But there is so much more information on the contrary here is a website that I suggest you read. hist.academic.claremontmckenna.edu/jpetropoulos/church/convents.htmlI find funny that many people will tell such horrible tales about the church. I often wonder if fifty years from now when people finally see that abortion is worng that the same groups of people will say how the Church never tried to do anything to pervent so much murder! :rolleyes:
 
I think, that like any group, there were Catholics who collaborate with evil. They may have been baptized Catholics but they certainly were not obedient sons and daughters of the Holy Mother Church. It is sad, but it is true. It’s like war atrocities. My father was a WWII vet and told me there were atrocities committed by members of every country during the war - the difference, he felt, was that Allied countries did not make the actions policy. I think the same applies to this situation, just as the situation with the nuns and the priest who participated in the atrocities in Rwanda.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top