Catholic? Now, I am not sure

[Bonnie]

biblechristiansociety.com/newsletter

This is a good resource for both debates and learning how to answer an anti-Catholic. John Martignoni is an excellent teacher.

Very few people do debates in person any more because it tends to devolve into entertainment. It’s better to be taught.

 

[1ke]

No.I’ve read some books but not bible study such as Ignatius, Navarre or commentaries such as Collegveill or Haydock

I’d encourage you to do so. Thorough knowledge of the bible coupled with study of Church history and the early a Church Fathers might be helpful for you.

 

[Duane1966]

As one who has listened to most of the James White debates with Catholics, I wonder how the OP and I could come to such radically different opinions on who got the better.

 

[Mike0000]

As one who has listened to most of the James White debates with Catholics, I wonder how the OP and I could come to such radically different opinions on who got the better.

I’ll second that emotion. Watching people like Patrick Madrid, Tim Staples, Jimmy Akin, Gerry Matatics, and Robert Sungenis completely destroy James White in debates is part of what led me OUT of Protestantism and to the Catholic church. I’d also like to echo what everyone else is saying:

1. The greatest theologians and philosophers in history have been Catholic.
2. Debates, while great, really only skim the surface of the issue. Doing in-depth research will answer way more questions than a debate, no matter how long the debate is. Once you do the reading, it’s much easier to see how shallow the Protestant position is when compared to Catholicism.
3. A big reason people are saying to READ the material vs listen to debates, is because debates often hinge on the debating skill of the participants, not the material at hand. An example for me is (even though I love the guy) Father Mitch Pacwa just isn’t a very good debater (in my opinion). He’s extremely intelligent, but doesn’t have the debate skills. Does it mean Catholicism is false? No. It just means he’s not great in the debate arena. But that’s not where issues are settled in the scholarly world. That’s why books, textbooks, and scholarly journals exist. No yelling, red herrings, interruptions, moderators, time limits, etc. Just the material, as is. That’s why you have to WRITE a dissertation to get a PhD, not participate in a debate.

Just my two cents

 

[Lucretius]

jaimelopez,

I think you are making too general of a statement. How exactly are we Catholics to respond to your questions with such a general claim, other then with other general claims? He who lives by generalities dies by generalities.

My advice is to be more specific. What examples of arguments have James White or Dr. Craig made that seem to refute Catholicism?

Last piece of advice: just because someone is good with rhetoric, doesn’t make him correct.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[jaimelopez]

I’d encourage you to do so. Thorough knowledge of the bible coupled with study of Church history and the early a Church Fathers might be helpful for you.

Thank you, I’m going to do so

Well, I am a sister, and yes I find it hard to believe someone would consider abandoning the faith for the reasons you describe.

I’m sorry sister…

Debate is is not the only, or even primary, method of articulating the faith.

every day people want to show me that we catholics are wrong, I don’t know Why people hate the Church, I’ve lost friends because of my faith, I don’t have friends because my faith …

I have never found these people to be compelling.

If they are not, I don’t know who.

Does holiness require cleverness? Does truth?

No, but what about claims like …Faith and Reason…

Always? That is a pretty bold statement considering the list I gave you previously.

in a debate always… well Scoth does his best

Can you give a specific example of a teaching of the faith inadequately defended in your opinion? We can discuss it here.

The canon and

Immaculate Conception and Church Fathers, Do they agree?

That is pretty hilarious. So I take it you have not read any of the authors I put forward?

I have read them. How do you know you are a good figther? Fighting how do you know you have the stronger arguments? Debating.

Can you defend the position that debates are superior to books, and on what grounds? What proof?

It’s better because you have a rigth back

 

[paulrxp]

I’m not going to mention the name or site, only because I disagree with the tone this Catholic debater takes towards the Vatican. However, just based on how he puts arguments together in detail, and I mean in detail and the debates I’ve heard him with against hard core evangelical Bible christians, he would absolutely squash James White like a bug in a debate.

It’s probably just as well we can listen to really civil and respectful apologists. Trent Horn speaks very eloquently , brings no shame to our faith. Sure, we can unleash the attack dogs on the extreme fringes of our Catholic faith, but at the end of the day, what matters is we hold and trust the truths and gifts of our faith. I use these debates so I can learn more about my faith and ask the tough questions, never to find doubt. God Bless.

 

[spedteacherita]

I have seen many debates and in all ones catholics have lost, pretty sad. We don’t have any good debater. The true Church? How if we can’t defend it? james white k’s.o. Catholicism in all debates, so Why be a Catholic?

Of course, I’m a bit prejudiced but I thought Patrick Madrid did an excellent job in his debate with Dr. White.

 

[Mike0000]

jaimelopez,

I think you are making too general of a statement. How exactly are we Catholics to respond to your questions with such a general claim, other then with other general claims? He who lives by generalities dies by generalities.

My advice is to be more specific. What examples of arguments have James White or Dr. Craig made that seem to refute Catholicism?

Last piece of advice: just because someone is good with rhetoric, doesn’t make him correct. Hilter was certainly good at defending his views publicly*

Christi pax,

Lucretius

*It’s sad that I have to say this, but in no way am I comparing Hilter to White or Craig on the level of morality. Craig, at least, is quite a respectable man, and definitely intelligent. I can’t say that same for White, but only because I have no idea who he is.

I’d like to also mention to the OP, first off, that I greatly admire Dr Craig. His work in philosophy and apologetics is great and can (and should) be used by Catholics because he devotes most of his ministry with defending Christian Theism, not a specific church or denomination.

That being said, a few things worth pointing out:

1. Dr Craig, like all good apologists, stands on the shoulders of giants, and will fully admit to the great contributions of Catholic philosophers like St Thomas Aquinas, St Anselm, and St Augustine, where much of his supporting material comes from.
2. Dr Craig is a Molinist (a position from Luis De Molina - a Catholic) and Dr White is a Calvinist, which means they pretty much totally disagree on their positions. They’re both reading the same bible. Who’s correct? Welcome to Protestantism. It’s endless. There’s hardly any agreement on any theological or moral issue.
3. If you listen to his Defenders podcast, Dr Craig holds an apologetics and theology class in his church and even his own students constantly challenge/argue with him about every other theological and philosophical point. Once again, welcome to Protestantism. Maybe it doesn’t bother you, but it drives me crazy and was a large part of what led me to Catholicism. It’s a large question of authority.

 

[jaimelopez]

I’ll second that emotion. Watching people like Patrick Madrid, Tim Staples, Jimmy Akin, Gerry Matatics, and Robert Sungenis completely destroy James White in debates is part of what led me OUT of Protestantism and to the Catholic church. I’d also like to echo what everyone else is saying:

1. The greatest theologians and philosophers in history have been Catholic.
2. Debates, while great, really only skim the surface of the issue. Doing in-depth research will answer way more questions than a debate, no matter how long the debate is. Once you do the reading, it’s much easier to see how shallow the Protestant position is when compared to Catholicism.
3. A big reason people are saying to READ the material vs listen to debates, is because debates often hinge on the debating skill of the participants, not the material at hand. An example for me is (even though I love the guy) Father Mitch Pacwa just isn’t a very good debater (in my opinion). He’s extremely intelligent, but doesn’t have the debate skills. Does it mean Catholicism is false? No. It just means he’s not great in the debate arena. But that’s not where issues are settled in the scholarly world. That’s why books, textbooks, and scholarly journals exist. No yelling, red herrings, interruptions, moderators, time limits, etc. Just the material, as is. That’s why you have to WRITE a dissertation to get a PhD, not participate in a debate.

Just my two cents

Thank you this is helpful you all have been charitable,I have to study, It’s not easy be a catholic, everybody make you feel bad for being what you are

 

[tawny]

You are kidding me?

Catholicism has the most towering of intellectuals in our fold. I’m not sure why you are so fascinated with James White nor why you think he "ko"s anyone.

What Catholic authors have you read that you found lacking?

Augustine? Aquinas? Catherine of Siena? Ignatius of Loyola? Therese of Liseux? Newman?

Or Kreeft? Sheed? Belloc? Keating? Newman? John Paul II? Benedict XVI? Hahn? von Hildebrand? Hardon? Sheen?

Please give us the criteria by which you judge the faith.

 

[jaimelopez]

Prof Edward Feser is fairly good but he does not debate If I had his knowledge I were debating every single Protestant man, atheist man, whatever man, whoever

 

[utah_rose]

Jesus Christ is King of the Universe.
He Himself instituted the Catholic Church.
This is not a debatable point.
It’s fact.
All the other Christian denominations have left or rejected the true church.
***Let them explain themselves. ***

Plus, all the Other Churches have had men or women founding them. And none had a founder whose purpose was to die for our sins. And none of them were raised from the dead.

 

[Adonia]

You are kidding me?

Catholicism has the most towering of intellectuals in our fold. I’m not sure why you are so fascinated with James White nor why you think he "ko"s anyone.

What Catholic authors have you read that you found lacking?

Augustine? Aquinas? Catherine of Siena? Ignatius of Loyola? Therese of Liseux? Newman?

Or Kreeft? Sheed? Belloc? Keating? Newman? John Paul II? Benedict XVI? Hahn? von Hildebrand? Hardon? Sheen?

Please give us the criteria by which you judge the faith.

Wow, what a list!

 

[graciew]

I’ve read arguments, they look good in paper but what happens in a debate? you get it?

Well show me who that person is that can argue better? Chesterton is not here.
Don’t anyone get angry, I am just sad because I can’t defend my faith, nobody can and cults and liberalism and anticatholicism go ahead

Hi ,Jaime.
Is this something that is.going on where you live ? Do you need to explain your faith yourself ?
Just asking cause I read you are Nicaragüense.
And this urge to get good dabaters sounds kind of odd for us Latin Americans…it is sort of a different style…
Just wondering ,Jaime

 

[gus]

Of course, I’m a bit prejudiced but I thought Patrick Madrid did an excellent job in his debate with Dr. White.

Patrick’s chief strength is his composure and the ability to maintain respectful in the face of vicious attacks. In the long run I believe that wins more people than attack dogs.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Look. If you say you have Truth and you cannot defend it against other views, guess what? nobody will belive your truth.

“Your” truth?

There is only one Truth, and I have to say, while it is our job to witness It, the fact is when properly observed it speaks very well for itself.

Just take a look at this site, or just my posts. Catholicism is defended on here and elsewhere.

I realize there is much evil today, but there is also some good going on!

 

[gus]

Of course, I’m a bit prejudiced but I thought Patrick Madrid did an excellent job in his debate with Dr. White.

Patrick’s chief strength is his composure and the ability to maintain respectful in the face of vicious attacks. In the long run I believe that wins more people than attack dogs.

 

[brian_custer]

catholic answers and catholic answers radio have champion “debaters” they are catholic apologists because they have the truth and the Holy Spirit

the catholic church cannot “lose” a debate

because what catholics believe is the Truth

 

[acadiANNA]

I agree, the Catholic Church cannot lose a debate, mostly because it was established by Jesus Christ. The Catholic interpretation is true.