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catharina
Guest
Your PS?
They have always insulted the clergy, starting with Pope John Paul II, face to face.
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They have always insulted the clergy, starting with Pope John Paul II, face to face.
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Havard
Guest
To the two of you:I agree with you sadwife, you hit the nail on the head: people who are sick need to be cared for. This Bill isn’t going to make a difference with regards to access to abortion and it clearly states taxpayer dollars aren’t to be used to fund abortions. Even if it did, we can’t ignore the fact that people need medical attention and this bill will bring more care to the people.
And sadwife, it’s extremely inappropriate for someone to tell you that you are not in communion with the Church or that you separate yourself from Catholics by thinking outside the box. I’d recommend you just talk to your priest about these issues. Though, you may want to separate yourself from certain Catholics on this board who decide it’s their place to judge you and determine the state of your soul
- You seem to be ignoring the possibility of caring for the sick without this bill, as though it’s either this specific bill or nothing. That is simply not the case.
- Christianity rejects ‘ends justify the means’ reasoning. So we cannot in good conscience justify supporting abortions simply because another good will be furthered.
- Rence is right about judging other people’s souls. Sadwife, by suggesting people here don’t care about the poor and sick, you do the same as the people you are upset by in accusing them of being profoundly unChristian. This is the devil at work. We should all seek to be spreading wisdom around here, not invective. Confused people rarely become enlightened via character assassination.
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sadwife
Guest
Kimmielittle:
How do any of you not get it that providing care and coverage for millions of people who don’t have it, isn’t a good thing? Because you disagree with the politics of it? I feel sorry for you, because you just don’t get it. I’ll keep you in my prayers that your hearts are filled with the love and tolerance of the Holy Spirit.
Are you serious Kimmielittle? You don’t believe that millions of uninsured American’s being able to finally afford and obtain healthcare is not respect and support of dignity and life? Really? You don’t agree that the sick, the oppressed, the poor, who are suffering because they cannot afford healthcare count? You apparently don’t care for our President or as you call it, his “ObamaCare”, but doesn’t our Catholic faith teach us to care for those who are sick, poor and the least of us? Isn’t that what healthcare for millions of more people will mean? Yes it does. Aren’t the lives of those suffering and dying because they can’t afford healthcare just as important as the life of any potential aborted fetus? Yes they are. Our President is showing more care, respect and support for the dignity of life than has been shown by a President in many years.
How do any of you not get it that providing care and coverage for millions of people who don’t have it, isn’t a good thing? Because you disagree with the politics of it? I feel sorry for you, because you just don’t get it. I’ll keep you in my prayers that your hearts are filled with the love and tolerance of the Holy Spirit.
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Corki
Guest
This is a Catholic site and Catholic teaching is that the ends do not justify the means. You would be hard pressed to find any Catholics who would not want to find away to provide health care to all. That is a noble goal - a worthy end. Catholics are just not willing to accept an immoral means to get to that end. Get it?
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kimmielittle
Guest
:clapping::clapping:
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catharina
Guest
The love and tolerance of the Holy Spirit does not extend to tolerating sin.
Supporting the possibility of ANY funding for abortion is supporting actions that are gravely sinful.
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catharina
Guest
Extremely well-stated. Thank you.
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sadwife
Guest
Posted by Catharina:
A person’s sins, doing right or wrong is between him and Our Lord. Who among us has a right to judge anyone? And how can you find fault, as a Catholic no less, with millions of people who are suffering and dying due to inadequate or no healthcare, finally getting help? That doesn’t sound compassionate or merciful.
At the end of the day, the bottom line in Jesus’ message was to love one another as He has loved us. It is the central message of our faith. I will pray that you get it soon.
Wow, Catharina. I take it you have no sin, since you are so willing to cast the first stone at those YOU believe are sinning.
A person’s sins, doing right or wrong is between him and Our Lord. Who among us has a right to judge anyone? And how can you find fault, as a Catholic no less, with millions of people who are suffering and dying due to inadequate or no healthcare, finally getting help? That doesn’t sound compassionate or merciful.
At the end of the day, the bottom line in Jesus’ message was to love one another as He has loved us. It is the central message of our faith. I will pray that you get it soon.
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sadwife
Guest
Kimmielittle and Corki - you both seem very happy judging others, on this site and otherwise. I am a Catholic, and at the end of the day, the message of Our Lord was to love one another. Who among you has the right to judge others? Are you without sin? Do you love those whom you consider sinners? Or do you feel superior to them?
I really find this site disturbing because so many on it come across that they know everything and are without sin themselves so that instead of supporting and encouraging and helping those in need, in sin, or less fortunate, they sit back and judge and condemn.
Wow. I don’t find much love of Christ on this site, just another forum for people to judge one another. And that is what is wrong with society today. Too many people are too concerned with everyone else’s sins that they are blind to their own.
No the ends don’t justify the means, and this site is a perfect example of it.
Jesus Christ loves us as who we are, sinners or not. And He died for ALL of OUR sins, and HE is the only one anyone has to answer to - not Kimmielittle or Catharina.
Why don’t you all start praying for those who you believe are sinning, instead of judging them?
Live your religion, just don’t talk about it.
I really find this site disturbing because so many on it come across that they know everything and are without sin themselves so that instead of supporting and encouraging and helping those in need, in sin, or less fortunate, they sit back and judge and condemn.
Wow. I don’t find much love of Christ on this site, just another forum for people to judge one another. And that is what is wrong with society today. Too many people are too concerned with everyone else’s sins that they are blind to their own.
No the ends don’t justify the means, and this site is a perfect example of it.
Jesus Christ loves us as who we are, sinners or not. And He died for ALL of OUR sins, and HE is the only one anyone has to answer to - not Kimmielittle or Catharina.
Why don’t you all start praying for those who you believe are sinning, instead of judging them?
Live your religion, just don’t talk about it.
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catharina
Guest
Hmmmm … that sounds so - judgmental.
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catharina
Guest
Working for pro-lfe goals for 40+yrs has always (will always) include prayer.
Prayer is the beginning and prayer is the end fo all who love and serve Our Lord.
If you don’t know that, maybe you should.
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catharina
Guest
One must stand against sin and can do so without condemning a sinner.
If others find condemnation of certain sins troubling, they can ask themselves why.
Saying this:**
“The love and tolerance of the Holy Spirit does not extend to tolerating sin. Supporting the possibility of ANY funding for abortion is supporting actions that are gravely sinful”** is NOT stating that any individual bears the action of culpability for the sin. It states that such action is gravely sinful. Judging another’s soul, conscience, culpability is not my job.
Hoped the distinction was obvious.
Guess not.
If others find condemnation of certain sins troubling, they can ask themselves why.
Saying this:**
“The love and tolerance of the Holy Spirit does not extend to tolerating sin. Supporting the possibility of ANY funding for abortion is supporting actions that are gravely sinful”** is NOT stating that any individual bears the action of culpability for the sin. It states that such action is gravely sinful. Judging another’s soul, conscience, culpability is not my job.
Hoped the distinction was obvious.
Guess not.
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kimmielittle
Guest
IMHO you need to step away from your podium.
Your first words here on this thread are
Who cast the first stone?
Your "reform’ embraces Abortion, Euthanasia, Eugenics, Assisted Suicide, No Conscience Clause to protect those who find assisting in these practices morally wrong ]. Pro-life incorporates a Reverence and Dignity of ALL human life.
This IS the teaching of Catholicism.
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Corki
Guest
I really take offense at that statement since you directed it specifically at me.
While I am not blameless of the sin of judging in my personal life (who among us doesn’t fail once in a while), I have not judged anyone in this thread or in any of my posts on CAF in the nearly 6 years I have been posting here to the best of my recollection.Yes, Jesus loves us. No, we can not judge others, that is for God to do at the time of everyone’s death. However, we must always exercise good judgement when it comes to actions, our own and others. I have never said that anyone was irredeemable or destined for hell. That would be judging. I have said, that certain actions are immoral. I didn’t even attribute those actions to any people but, even if I had, that is judging the act - not the person.
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the gift of counsel, which many (including saints such as St. Ambrose) have called the gift of “right judgement”. Applying our faith and knowledge to be able to reach “right judgement” about actions is exercising that gift as we were called to do when we were confirmed in the Church.
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lelhajj
Guest
Hi everybody,
I am stil confused about what the new healthcare reform is, maybe because i am outside of the usa. But i certainly do agree with sadwife that if this bill is going to help millions of uninsured americans to have medical care is a great advancement in our country. We can not enjoy medical insurance and go out to the street and see all those uninsured people living on the streets or working people who have been denied medical coverage. God said: love your neighbor. Since i have been living outside the usa for a while and being in constant contact with expatriates, talking to them, british, french, australians, etc, and asked them if they will have medical coverage when they retire and their answers are a “yes”. i have realized that our country still needed so much to change about medical care. Hearing so many voices of senior citizens who can not afford to pay for their medicines, etc. so many people uninsured, part time jobs that do not offer medical insurance, people being rejected because pre existing conditions, people who has lost their houses because they could not pay for long term illnesses,etc.i certainly believe that our healthcare system has been wisely manipulated because of greed. and listening to my expatriated friends who are almost retiring and looking forward to have a pleasant happy life for retirement and a peace of mind since they have medical coverage till they die. We can not go on thinking or believing that we are good catholics and refusing to accept that they are millions of people at this very moment who do not have medical care and that they are also human beings that have the same rights and needs as us. The united states is one of the principal countries that donates so much money for different causes to other countries, why shall we deny medical care to all our citizens when we should first take care of our own and then, with the money that is left to go to other causes? This is one big mistake. Why so much money invested in wars? isn’t it better to invest it in healthcare for us, the citizens? I dont really know what this bill is about abortion, but, there are some very good points or goals like the one mentioned above. This is just the first step, still they are some other points that might need to be change. We need to realize that we are not going to be forever young and strong or that as we get older we are not going to suffer from a long term illness, sooner or later all of us we"ll be on the same boat, with illness to cope with, from our part or from the part of one of our beloved ones. If we do not have compassion towards the weak, we will find our own token of bad luck to makes us realize that not everything that shines is gold and last forever.
I am stil confused about what the new healthcare reform is, maybe because i am outside of the usa. But i certainly do agree with sadwife that if this bill is going to help millions of uninsured americans to have medical care is a great advancement in our country. We can not enjoy medical insurance and go out to the street and see all those uninsured people living on the streets or working people who have been denied medical coverage. God said: love your neighbor. Since i have been living outside the usa for a while and being in constant contact with expatriates, talking to them, british, french, australians, etc, and asked them if they will have medical coverage when they retire and their answers are a “yes”. i have realized that our country still needed so much to change about medical care. Hearing so many voices of senior citizens who can not afford to pay for their medicines, etc. so many people uninsured, part time jobs that do not offer medical insurance, people being rejected because pre existing conditions, people who has lost their houses because they could not pay for long term illnesses,etc.i certainly believe that our healthcare system has been wisely manipulated because of greed. and listening to my expatriated friends who are almost retiring and looking forward to have a pleasant happy life for retirement and a peace of mind since they have medical coverage till they die. We can not go on thinking or believing that we are good catholics and refusing to accept that they are millions of people at this very moment who do not have medical care and that they are also human beings that have the same rights and needs as us. The united states is one of the principal countries that donates so much money for different causes to other countries, why shall we deny medical care to all our citizens when we should first take care of our own and then, with the money that is left to go to other causes? This is one big mistake. Why so much money invested in wars? isn’t it better to invest it in healthcare for us, the citizens? I dont really know what this bill is about abortion, but, there are some very good points or goals like the one mentioned above. This is just the first step, still they are some other points that might need to be change. We need to realize that we are not going to be forever young and strong or that as we get older we are not going to suffer from a long term illness, sooner or later all of us we"ll be on the same boat, with illness to cope with, from our part or from the part of one of our beloved ones. If we do not have compassion towards the weak, we will find our own token of bad luck to makes us realize that not everything that shines is gold and last forever.
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CPA2
Guest
Milton Friedman’s conclusion in his book, Free to Choose:
“The two ideas of human freedom and economic freedom working together came to their greatest fruition in the United States…We have been forgetting the basic truth that the greatest threat to human freedom is the concentration of power, whether in the hands of government or anyone else. We have persuaded ourselves that it is safe to grant power, provided it is for good purposes.”
“We are again recognizing the dangers of an over-governed society, coming to understand that good objectives can be perverted by bad means, that reliance on the freedom of people to control their own lives in accordance with their own values is the surest way to achieve the full potential of a great society.”
When you have a monopoly, prices go up and service goes down. Monopolies come from the government. The government now has a monopoly with Obama Care. This problem with high health care costs started with government’s intrusion into health care. Now the government wants to “solve” the problem that government created! The government is an incompetent administrator.
“The two ideas of human freedom and economic freedom working together came to their greatest fruition in the United States…We have been forgetting the basic truth that the greatest threat to human freedom is the concentration of power, whether in the hands of government or anyone else. We have persuaded ourselves that it is safe to grant power, provided it is for good purposes.”
“We are again recognizing the dangers of an over-governed society, coming to understand that good objectives can be perverted by bad means, that reliance on the freedom of people to control their own lives in accordance with their own values is the surest way to achieve the full potential of a great society.”
When you have a monopoly, prices go up and service goes down. Monopolies come from the government. The government now has a monopoly with Obama Care. This problem with high health care costs started with government’s intrusion into health care. Now the government wants to “solve” the problem that government created! The government is an incompetent administrator.
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kimmielittle
Guest
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kimmielittle
Guest
Hiyas
Welcome to CAF
The problem is… this bill has been sold as a solution to healthcare problems. And it’s not.
All it has done is put the weakest most innocent at risk - in order to promote it.
How is it Social Justice when it embraces Abortion, Euthanasia, Eugenics, Assisted Suicide, No Conscience Clause to protect those who find assisting in these practices morally wrong ]. As a solution?
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kimmielittle
Guest
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sadwife
Guest
I am in awe at being in the presence of so many divine beings who are so perfect they can judge others. I am a sinner. I am a Catholic. My Lord died for my sins. And my sins are the only ones I am to be concerned about for He will judge all others.
I believe that there are so many sins of hypocrisy here, which is so evident from what you write. Holier than thou, you bet.
Humility is tough sometimes, but perhaps needed by many here.
But what do I know. I am simply a sinner.
I believe that there are so many sins of hypocrisy here, which is so evident from what you write. Holier than thou, you bet.
Humility is tough sometimes, but perhaps needed by many here.
But what do I know. I am simply a sinner.
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