Catholic OB/GYN?

[TheWarriorMonk]

Those so called “educated” people change the definitions of words like “pregnancy” in medical journals. Those so called “educated” people say that birth control pills don’t cause abortions.

Don’t trust me, Fine. Go to www.omsoul.com and consult with the hundreds of doctors over there and they will repeat what I said.

A lot of Catholics paint all artificial birth control with a broad brush and don’t really understand the mechanisms involved. Many also throw out the word “abortion” every time this discussion comes up in an entirely inappropriate manner. Take birth control pills for PCOS does NOT result in abortion…ever. Abortion is murder, and murder requires intent. If you disagree, then you disagree with the Catholic Church on the matter.

With regard to the standard birth control pill, it’s primary purpose is to inhibit ovulation, NOT cause already fertilized eggs to implant. Naturally, an egg might not implant, simply due to the fact when a woman is not ovulating (regardless of whether she’s on the pill or not) the uterus is not favorable to implantation. Not only that but the nonimplantation rate is slightly lower when on the pill versus not being on the pill. Even the USCCB has approved the use of certain birth control, whose primary function is to inhibit ovulation, in certain rape cases. If it was abortive in nature, it would not be approved.

There are other types of birth control whose function is to expel a fertilized egg after the fact. That would fall under abortive since the nature of the pill is understood when taking it.

 

[pensmama87]

A lot of Catholics paint all artificial birth control with a broad brush and don’t really understand the mechanisms involved. Many also throw out the word “abortion” every time this discussion comes up in an entirely inappropriate manner. **Take birth control pills for PCOS does NOT result in abortion…ever. Abortion is murder, and murder requires intent. If you disagree, then you disagree with the Catholic Church on the matter. **

With regard to the standard birth control pill, it’s primary purpose is to inhibit ovulation, NOT cause already fertilized eggs to implant. Naturally, an egg might not implant, simply due to the fact when a woman is not ovulating (regardless of whether she’s on the pill or not) the uterus is not favorable to implantation. Not only that but the nonimplantation rate is slightly lower when on the pill versus not being on the pill. Even the USCCB has approved the use of certain birth control, whose primary function is to inhibit ovulation, in certain rape cases. If it was abortive in nature, it would not be approved.

There are other types of birth control whose function is to expel a fertilized egg after the fact. That would fall under abortive since the nature of the pill is understood when taking it.

I can understand you wanting to make sure that we are specific about terms, but the bolded above is not correct. If you want to speak medically, an abortion is termination of pregnancy. Miscarriages, medically speaking, are referred to as “spontaneous abortions.” The sin we commonly refer to as abortion would be an “induced abortion.”

I agree that a woman who is using hormonal therapy for PCOS, with the side effect of preventing ovulation, would not be culpable if there was a breakthrough ovulation, conception, and then failed implantation. But medically speaking, if that were to happen, yes, an abortion occurred.

I know many women who have “Pill babies.” In their cases, they were taking the Pill as contraception, which isn’t licit, but it happens often enough for me to know that ovulation is not always prevented - and, luckily, in those cases the uterine lining was sufficiently suited to implantation.

So no, morally speaking, a woman would not be culpable, if hormonal treatment for PCOS is a licit treatment for her. But it’s something I would definitely want to know, and that aspect does get pushed aside by people who push contraceptives, including by some who prescribe them.

 

[THP]

hormones don’t “treat” PCOS. they mask the symptoms and make it worse.

What is a hormone?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I can understand you wanting to make sure that we are specific about terms, but the bolded above is not correct. If you want to speak medically, an abortion is termination of pregnancy. Miscarriages, medically speaking, are referred to as “spontaneous abortions.” The sin we commonly refer to as abortion would be an “induced abortion.”

Be aware that the definition of terms used in the context of Catholicism and the definition of terms used in medicine/law/etc. are not necessarily the same, and that is most certainly the with the term “abortion.” A great many people conflate the two.

FWIW, I am an advocate for the Church using different terms or a qualifier if a particular term is used differently than in the common vernacular. When terms like “abortion,” “procreative,” etc.are used in a different manner by the Church, and these issues are discussed with the general public and/or a significant number of Catholics, they are simply confounded. That does a disservice to the cause.

 

[pensmama87]

Be aware that the definition of terms used in the context of Catholicism and the definition of terms used in medicine/law/etc. are not necessarily the same, and that is most certainly the with the term “abortion.” A great many people conflate the two.

FWIW, I am an advocate for the Church using different terms or a qualifier if a particular term is used differently than in the common vernacular. When terms like “abortion,” “procreative,” etc.are used in a different manner by the Church, and these issues are discussed with the general public and/or a significant number of Catholics, they are simply confounded. That does a disservice to the cause.

Yes, that’s what I was trying to point out. I guess I was coming at it from the other way. Medically speaking, absolutely an abortion can occur if a woman is taking the Pill and has a breakthrough ovulation that results in failure to implant. Did a woman do anything wrong if this happens? Depends on her reasons for taking the hormones in the first place.

I would argue most women, whether they are Catholic or not, define the loss of pregnancy as a “miscarriage” if they did nothing to make it happen. Good healthcare providers know this, even if they then note it on the woman’s chart as a spontaneous abortion. So I’m not sure how that distinction of language is particular to the Church. Seems to me it’s society at large.

 

[THP]

I try to stay away from medical topics when they come up but there is a ton of misinformation here. (I’m a Catholic pro life OB/GYN by the way)

In reality, PCOS is probably 2 distinct entities: there is a congenital form (meaning its part of your physiology) and an acquired form with different pathophysiologic pathways. Some of this is still being elucidated. Technically PCOS is supposed to be a diagnosis of exclusion but I would debate that. It can result in unnecessary testing when a woman obviously has PCOS.

There are not necessarily “natural” cures for PCOS (I have yet to hear a good definition of natural anyway) in the same way there are no natural cures for hypothyroidism. Acquired PCOS is due to excessive adipose tissue and you can reverse PCOS by eliminating it.

Otherwise, treatment of PCOS depends on your goals. The hallmark of PCOS is anovulation. If the short term goal is pregnancy then we need to use medications that can stimulate ovulation. The problem is, the most effective medications for this should not be used for long periods of time because there is growing evidence that it might increase risk of ovarian cancer later in life and have pretty brutal side effects. Metformin might increase the rates of ovulation in some women but not nearly as well as clomid for example.

Women with PCOS are at increased risk of developing diabetes and should be screened periodically. Metformin would be an option for treatment of insulin resistance but I will have to defer to someone who treats this more regularly for the best option. They are also at increased risk for high cholesterol.

If pregnancy is not the goal then it is very important that women shed their uterine lining periodically - or at least keep it thin. This is important to prevent endometrial cancer. The best way to do this is probably a Mirena IUD but the first line treatment is combined OCPs (birth control pills that contain estrogen and progestin). Its simple, very well tolerated, very safe, has been used for many years and is very effective. Much more effective than metformin. The other aspect is managing hirsutism and we have some medications for that but also many options for hair removal.

In summary, treatment of PCOS really is about managing the disease, you are not necessarily going to “cure” it, and that is perfectly acceptable. Exception being if it is due to weight gain, then weight loss will get rid of it - but that is easier said than done. The point is, there is not algorithm that fits everyone and treatment needs to be individualized and it can become complicated very quickly. People should be very careful about touting natural cures from online resources because it may apply to each person and actually does them a disservice.

(too much free time on a saturday morning!)

 

[THP]

Yes, that’s what I was trying to point out. I guess I was coming at it from the other way. Medically speaking, absolutely an abortion can occur if a woman is taking the Pill and has a breakthrough ovulation that results in failure to implant. Did a woman do anything wrong if this happens? Depends on her reasons for taking the hormones in the first place.

I would argue most women, whether they are Catholic or not, define the loss of pregnancy as a “miscarriage” if they did nothing to make it happen. Good healthcare providers know this, even if they then note it on the woman’s chart as a spontaneous abortion. So I’m not sure how that distinction of language is particular to the Church. Seems to me it’s society at large.

With the term “abortion” this is true but Warrior Monks point is well taken and I agree with it for a good number of other terms.

 

[EmeraldOak]

I try to stay away from medical topics when they come up but there is a ton of misinformation here. (I’m a Catholic pro life OB/GYN by the way)

In reality, PCOS is probably 2 distinct entities: there is a congenital form (meaning its part of your physiology) and an acquired form with different pathophysiologic pathways. Some of this is still being elucidated. Technically PCOS is supposed to be a diagnosis of exclusion but I would debate that. It can result in unnecessary testing when a woman obviously has PCOS.

There are not necessarily “natural” cures for PCOS (I have yet to hear a good definition of natural anyway) in the same way there are no natural cures for hypothyroidism. Acquired PCOS is due to excessive adipose tissue and you can reverse PCOS by eliminating it.

Otherwise, treatment of PCOS depends on your goals. The hallmark of PCOS is anovulation. If the short term goal is pregnancy then we need to use medications that can stimulate ovulation. The problem is, the most effective medications for this should not be used for long periods of time because there is growing evidence that it might increase risk of ovarian cancer later in life and have pretty brutal side effects. Metformin might increase the rates of ovulation in some women but not nearly as well as clomid for example.

Women with PCOS are at increased risk of developing diabetes and should be screened periodically. Metformin would be an option for treatment of insulin resistance but I will have to defer to someone who treats this more regularly for the best option. They are also at increased risk for high cholesterol.

If pregnancy is not the goal then it is very important that women shed their uterine lining periodically - or at least keep it thin. This is important to prevent endometrial cancer. The best way to do this is probably a Mirena IUD but the first line treatment is combined OCPs (birth control pills that contain estrogen and progestin). Its simple, very well tolerated, very safe, has been used for many years and is very effective. Much more effective than metformin. The other aspect is managing hirsutism and we have some medications for that but also many options for hair removal.

In summary, treatment of PCOS really is about managing the disease, you are not necessarily going to “cure” it, and that is perfectly acceptable. Exception being if it is due to weight gain, then weight loss will get rid of it - but that is easier said than done. The point is, there is not algorithm that fits everyone and treatment needs to be individualized and it can become complicated very quickly. People should be very careful about touting natural cures from online resources because it may apply to each person and actually does them a disservice.

(too much free time on a saturday morning!)

Thank you for taking the time to post. Very informative!

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Women with PCOS are at increased risk of developing diabetes and should be screened periodically. Metformin would be an option for treatment of insulin resistance but I will have to defer to someone who treats this more regularly for the best option. They are also at increased risk for high cholesterol.

I’m curious as to the mechanism involved in the diabetes, cholesterol, etc. Are these woman also overweight? I ask because those symptoms (diabetes, high cholesterol, etc.) are also the result of weight gain.

People should be very careful about touting natural cures from online resources because it may apply to each person and actually does them a disservice.

I can’t speak for PCOS, since I am not familiar enough with it. However, natural cures work for a great many chronic diseases. I seen the results firsthand. The issue with natural cures, though, is that they are holistic in nature, and those seeking such cures don’t treat them that way. Substituting a natural substance for one created in a lab won’t necessarily change anything. Taking that natural cure, while at the same time exercising, eating natural (unprocessed) foods, reducing stress, etc. can work wonders.

 

[THP]

I’m curious as to the mechanism involved in the diabetes, cholesterol, etc. Are these woman also overweight? I ask because those symptoms (diabetes, high cholesterol, etc.) are also the result of weight gain.

Great question. I would have to look up that mechanism but I don’t think all the details are completely understood. Certainly part of it is obesity but the risk is still increased when that is controlled for. Also women with “skinny” PCOS are also at increased risk of diabetes. I’ll have to look up exactly why that is.

I can’t speak for PCOS, since I am not familiar enough with it. However, natural cures work for a great many chronic diseases. I seen the results firsthand. The issue with natural cures, though, is that they are holistic in nature, and those seeking such cures don’t treat them that way. Substituting a natural substance for one created in a lab won’t necessarily change anything. Taking that natural cure, while at the same time exercising, eating natural (unprocessed) foods, reducing stress, etc. can work wonders.

You won’t get any argument from me that eating healthy and avoiding processed foods, weight loss, and exercise is a good thing to do. How can you be sure the benefit is not due to the lifestyle change versus the natural cure? I’m curious what you mean by natural cure.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

You won’t get any argument from me that eating healthy and avoiding processed foods, weight loss, and exercise is a good thing to do. How can you be sure the benefit is not due to the lifestyle change versus the natural cure? I’m curious what you mean by natural cure.

“Natural cure” is really a misnomer. The natural state of the human is health, and simply exercising, eating unprocessed foods, and avoiding stress will eliminate most chronic diseases.

FWIW, I can give an example of a natural cure. My ex had a bleeding issue in her urinary tract that doctors couldn’t figure out how to stop. This went on for months, with doctors giving her drugs, and using progressively more invasive procedures to attempt to find the cause. I finally stepped in an insisted she see a particular well-know osteopath. The doctor gave her a thorough physical exam, did a thorough blood scan (including checking vitamin and mineral levels), allergy tests, and did an extensive interview regarding diet and environment. It was determined that her chromium level was low, and she was allergic to various environmental items. The treatment was a rotation diet for the allergies, and chromium supplements short term while the diet was adjusted? The result? The problem went away…gone forever; there was no tract of blood in her urine after that.

Another example: A family member has Type I diabetes. His doctor (from China) told him that there was only one patient he was aware of that after decades of having this disease had few problems. This particular patient ate unprocessed foods and exercised. This family member followed this advice religiously. The result? He has outlived two of his three brothers by at least three decades (and counting). Not bad for something that started off sicker than his three siblings combined.