Catholic old testament promotes witchcraft!

[Odell]

I found this article ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/bible-lesson-7-catholic-bible-promotes-witchcraft-holy-bible-exludes-seven-catholic-books/

And don’t know how to address the issue?
I have done a quick search and have found nothing defending the catholic position.

I would first like to see if someone else has talked this issue. I would also like to know how these verses might point to Christ. And if there might be any similar Old Testament verses that are in Hebrew?

If there is Old Testament scripture that is similar in the text the Protestants accept it would be real easy to dismiss this claim.
Thanks for any help!

 

[markomalley]

I found this article ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/bible-lesson-7-catholic-bible-promotes-witchcraft-holy-bible-exludes-seven-catholic-books/

And don’t know how to address the issue?
I have done a quick search and have found nothing defending the catholic position.

I would first like to see if someone else has talked this issue. I would also like to know how these verses might point to Christ. And if there might be any similar Old Testament verses that are in Hebrew?

If there is Old Testament scripture that is similar in the text the Protestants accept it would be real easy to dismiss this claim.
Thanks for any help!

From the blog post (first paragraph):

The Old Testament books of the Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew. Not in Greek. The Greek books of Tobit, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Judith and 1st and 2nd books of Maccabees was not included when the cannon of the Holy Bible was closed around 400 A.D.

That, in of itself, is in error. The “Incipit Concilium Vrbis Romae sub Damaso Papa de Explanatione Fidei” was proposed by the Synod of Rome in 382 AD (and was accepted as the Canon of the Old Testament by Pope Damasus):

i.imgur.com/A2b8R.png

(It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book;Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books [First and Second Books of Kings, Third and Fourth Books of Kings]; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Sirach, one book;

Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book.

Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books.)

You will notice that all the Deuteros are there.

 

[Odell]

From the blog post (first paragraph):

The Old Testament books of the Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew. Not in Greek. The Greek books of Tobit, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Judith and 1st and 2nd books of Maccabees was not included when the cannon of the Holy Bible was closed around 400 A.D.

That, in of itself, is in error. The “Incipit Concilium Vrbis Romae sub Damaso Papa de Explanatione Fidei” was proposed by the Synod of Rome in 382 AD (and was accepted as the Canon of the Old Testament by Pope Damasus):

i.imgur.com/A2b8R.png

(It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun. The list of the Old Testament begins: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book: Leviticus, one book;Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Jesus Nave, one book; of Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; of Kings, four books [First and Second Books of Kings, Third and Fourth Books of Kings]; Paralipomenon, two books; One Hundred and Fifty Psalms, one book; of Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book; Ecclesiastes, one book; Canticle of Canticles, one book; likewise, Wisdom, one book; Sirach, one book;

Likewise, the list of the Prophets: Isaiah, one book; Jeremias, one book; along with Cinoth, that is, his Lamentations; Ezechiel, one book; Daniel, one book; Osee, one book; Amos, one book; Micheas, one book; Joel, one book; Abdias, one book; Jonas, one book; Nahum, one book; Habacuc, one book; Sophonias, one book; Aggeus, one book; Zacharias, one book; Malachias, one book.

Likewise, the list of histories: Job, one book; Tobias, one book; Esdras, two books; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; of Maccabees, two books.)

You will notice that all the Deuteros are there.

Yea I forgot to mention all the other stuff in the article. Thanks for the brief rebuttal. I really want a address the witchcraft. I haven’t seen this before.

 

[triumphguy]

What does “promote” mean?

If we are promoting witchcraft (by allowing the reference to remain in the canon) then we are also promoting stoning, the killing of women and children, the taking of virgin girls as the spoils of war etc., etc. They are all in the canonical texts.

If by promoting we mean that we “teach” these things as a way to live the Bible then obviously that is wrong.

By the way, don’t we take cod liver oil in this day and age because it’s full of vitamins, anti-oxidants etc.

 

[markomalley]

Yea I forgot to mention all the other stuff in the article. Thanks for the brief rebuttal. I really want a address the witchcraft. I haven’t seen this before.

Actually, his statement is based upon a premise that Tobit is not part of the authentic canon of the Old Testament when it was formed. This is a false premise that many fundamentalist Protestants assert (as they believe the canon for Catholics was determined by the Council of Trent, when, in fact, it was founded by Pope Damasus in 382 AD).

Thus, he can assert that the Archangel Raphael did not provide those instructions.

Let us look at the overall quotes (in some better context):

[BIBLEDRB]Tobit 6:2-9[/BIBLEDRB]

So he discussed folk medicine. Is that witchcraft?

Compare that to this:

[BIBLEDRB]John 9:6-7[/BIBLEDRB]

Was that witchcraft?

Personally, because of the circumstances, I would interpret the items in that particular passage as being relics – like the staff of Aaron and the girdle of Elijah and the bones of Elisha. Not so much holy in of themselves, but holy in that they were blessed.

 

[JonNC]

I found this article ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/bible-lesson-7-catholic-bible-promotes-witchcraft-holy-bible-exludes-seven-catholic-books/

And don’t know how to address the issue?
I have done a quick search and have found nothing defending the catholic position.

I would first like to see if someone else has talked this issue. I would also like to know how these verses might point to Christ. And if there might be any similar Old Testament verses that are in Hebrew?

If there is Old Testament scripture that is similar in the text the Protestants accept it would be real easy to dismiss this claim.
Thanks for any help!

Odell,
Just a clarification, since the link (I think improperly) references Luther. TO my knowledge, neither Luther nor Lutherans believe that the deuterocanons promote witchcraft, and neither does the Catholic Church promote witchcraft. The charge is ludicrous. In fact, historically, Lutherans have often read from them** liturgically**. Luther considered them good and useful for reading. They were always included in German Lutheran Bibles, and the practice is gradually returning in English Lutheran Bibles, including a study Bible due out in 2012 published by the Concordia Publishing House (LCMS).

The site also misrepresents by implication the Lutheran view of the Pope.

Jon

 

[Ian_Ward]

The Bible testifies that witch craft exists, but whole heartily denounces and sets out to destroy it.

 

[Buck_Crosswhite]

I found this article ivarfjeld.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/bible-lesson-7-catholic-bible-promotes-witchcraft-holy-bible-exludes-seven-catholic-books/

And don’t know how to address the issue?
I have done a quick search and have found nothing defending the catholic position.

I would first like to see if someone else has talked this issue. I would also like to know how these verses might point to Christ. And if there might be any similar Old Testament verses that are in Hebrew?

If there is Old Testament scripture that is similar in the text the Protestants accept it would be real easy to dismiss this claim.
Thanks for any help!

Only an idiot would think an angel would practice witchcraft.
This article was written by an anti-catholic and not worthy of reading.

 

[Todd_Easton]

What happened in Tobit that some mistakenly describe as witchcraft reminds me of the story in 2 Kings 2:19-23 where the prophet Elisha threw a bowlful of salt into a spring and forever changed the quality of the water it produced from bad to wholesome. I am also reminded of what Jacob did with the peeled rods to create spotted and speckled sheep and goats in Genesis 30:37-43. And of the prophet Elisha directing Naaman to wash seven times in the Jordan River to cure his leprosy in 2 Kings 5:10-14.

 

[Odell]

What happened in Tobit that some mistakenly describe as witchcraft reminds me of the story in 2 Kings 2:19-23 where the prophet Elisha threw a bowlful of salt into a spring and forever changed the quality of the water it produced from bad to wholesome. I am also reminded of what Jacob did with the peeled rods to create spotted and speckled sheep and goats in Genesis 30:37-43. And of the prophet Elisha directing Naaman to wash seven times in the Jordan River to cure his leprosy in 2 Kings 5:10-14.

This is more of what I was looking for thanks

 

[Anthony_V]

Odell,
Just a clarification, since the link (I think improperly) references Luther. TO my knowledge, neither Luther nor Lutherans believe that the deuterocanons promote witchcraft, and neither does the Catholic Church promote witchcraft. The charge is ludicrous. In fact, historically, Lutherans have often read from them** liturgically**. Luther considered them good and useful for reading. They were always included in German Lutheran Bibles, and the practice is gradually returning in English Lutheran Bibles, including a study Bible due out in 2012 published by the Concordia Publishing House (LCMS).

The site also misrepresents by implication the Lutheran view of the Pope.

Jon

If it is any consolation, while I don’t agree with Luther’s teachings, I certainly do apologize on behalf of Catholics and mainstream protestants alike who practice a lack of charity towards Lutherans, specifically in regards to scriptural-canon straw men. I look and pray for the unity of the Catholic Church and Lutheran churches.
I’m not sure if you practice Marian devotion, but a rosary for said cause would be greatly cherished! I will do likewise.

http://www.brogilbert.org/jesus_christ/jusus_theotokos.JPG

Pax Christi tecum indivisa,
Anthony

 

[Heuchler]

Witchcraft is contacting evil spirits. Listening to an angel of God is not witchcraft.

 

[Aquinas29]

Once I heard a Fundie say the same thing. They were referring to praying to the Saints as equivalent of talking to the dead, hence witchcraft. We are practicing necromancy, like the witch of endor. This could be what he is talking about.