Catholic or Democratic Socialism?

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niceatheist said:
anti-gay slurs
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So my government is forcing me to BELIEVE what it wants (gay marriage, for example) and if I don’t, then I lose my right to exist. THIS IS COMMUNISM in its pure form. It has now become a new religion and you are forced to believe and support it or else. WELCOME TO THE DARKect AGES!
 
ontheway1 said:
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niceatheist:
anti-gay slurs
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So my government is forcing me to BELIEVE what it wants (gay marriage, for example) and if I don’t, then I lose my right to exist. THIS IS COMMUNISM in its pure form. It has now become a new religion and you are forced to believe and support it or else. WELCOME TO THE DARKect AGES!
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Where is the government involved in firing an employee? Where I live, I have the right to let any employee go, for cause or without cause. I may have to pay a good deal of severance, but providing I abide by the terms of the law and the employment contract, if someone is espousing anti-gay views (and let’s be clear, just being a Catholic who says he doesn’t approve of gay marriage wouldn’t come close to the kinds of slurs I’m talking about), then I can let them go.

You seem to be confusing private contractual obligations with the government. The government in Canada does not penalize people for anti-gay statements, and we do have constitutional protections surrounding religious beliefs, conscience rights and speech.
 
You can love your neighbor as yourself in any state of life.
To sell all you have and give to the poor would only make them temporarily well off. The ability to attract money and wealth is a learned skill. Wealth is created not redistributed.
As far as the camel and the rich man, we would have to define what rich means in this era. Everybody has their own idea of what success and monetary security is.
 
Bushum said:
From this heresy there arose in the last century a false philosophy–a new right as it is called, and a popular authority, together with an unbridled license which many regard as the only true liberty. Hence we have reached the limit of horrors, to wit, communism, socialism, nihilism, hideous deformities of the civil society of men and almost its ruin. And yet too many attempt to enlarge the scope of these evils, and under the pretext of helping the multitude, already have fanned no small flames of misery. The things we thus mention are neither unknown nor very remote from us.
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What bothers me is that so many Catholics do not know the Church has always opposed socialism, but the Socialists always know they are opposed to the Church. Most of the time the Socialists are even upfront about it, from Marx naming the Pope as the enemy to the attempted assassination of John Paul II. Ask Bernie Sanders or AOC what they think of the Catholic Church.
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niceatheist said:
Where is the government involved in firing an employee?
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Hiring practices at university in the US: candidates for university positions are screend for their adherence to the new religion and their pro-active participation in the promotion of the gay agenda. (I know becuase I actually participate in suchscreening) HR gives us, the interviewers questions that we have to ask. (this has not been the case until recently) These have to do not with the candidate’s experience and expertise, but their own gender orientation or their attitude toward “inclusion”.
Preference is given to the gendec cast first, followed by gender supporters and adherents. This is real and this is now.
 
This is a poor article. It fails to define terms or lay out any real principles other than vague ones and that unions can be good. None of those things are at the heart of the debate about socialism. What defines Socialism is its denial of private property and its promotion of class enmity. No Catholic can support these.

That being said, there are those who claim the word “socialism” but don’t actually support these things. Pius XI elaborates:
  1. The other section, which has kept the name Socialism, is surely more moderate. It not only professes the rejection of violence but modifies and tempers to some degree, if it does not reject entirely, the class struggle and the abolition of private ownership. One might say that, terrified by its own principles and by the conclusions drawn therefrom by Communism, Socialism inclines toward and in a certain measure approaches the truths which Christian tradition has always held sacred; for it cannot be denied that its demands at times come very near those that Christian reformers of society justly insist upon.
  2. For if the class struggle abstains from enmities and mutual hatred, it gradually changes into an honest discussion of differences founded on a desire for justice, and if this is not that blessed social peace which we all seek, it can and ought to be the point of departure from which to move forward to the mutual cooperation of the Industries and Professions. So also the war declared on private ownership, more and more abated, is being so restricted that now, finally, not the possession itself of the means of production is attacked but rather a kind of sovereignty over society which ownership has, contrary to all right, seized and usurped. For such sovereignty belongs in reality not to owners but to the public authority. If the foregoing happens, it can come even to the point that imperceptibly these ideas of the more moderate socialism will no longer differ from the desires and demands of those who are striving to remold human society on the basis of Christian principles. For certain kinds of property, it is rightly contended, ought to be reserved to the State since they carry with them a dominating power so great that cannot without danger to the general welfare be entrusted to private individuals.
  3. Such just demands and desire have nothing in them now which is inconsistent with Christian truth, and much less are they special to Socialism. Those who work solely toward such ends have, therefore, no reason to become socialists.
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http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-x...s/hf_p-xi_enc_19310515_quadragesimo-anno.html

The author should have specifically tried to show that “democratic socialists” in the US do not advocate for the abolishment of private property (the popular ones don’t seem to, as far as I can tell) or promote class enmity (this seems to be more of a problem, although much milder than real, historical socialists).

Of course, “democratic socialists” in the US seem to invariable support all sorts of other terrible things that are not necessarily tied to socialism or capitalism.
 
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Why is it that Americans are ridiculously paranoid about the far left, and completely oblivious to the slow creep to the far right that is currently going on?
 
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The main reason is that you have a strong group of conservatives who demonize socialistic ideas.
Capitalism or socialism can be corrupted by a totalitarian group of people or individual.
 
This explanation is spot on of the left, liberals, socialists and the like. They believe utopia can be created here on earth and that all evil and suffering can be eliminated if we just “do” socialism “right”.
 
Ultimately what liberals project onto conservatives is that without the forced government wealth redistribution the poor and elderly would just go forgotten and die all because of evil nasty conservatives. One forgets two things. Forced charity is not charity and two, if the liberals stopped taking my money for worthless programs I’d have a lot more money to freely give to the poor and elderly.
 
Genesis315 said:
The author should have specifically tried to show that “democratic socialists” in the US do not advocate for the abolishment of private property (the popular ones don’t seem to, as far as I can tell) or promote class enmity (this seems to be more of a problem, although much milder than real, historical socialists).
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That’s because if they were to do a “all-in” type of approach people would see who they are and what they really are for and reject them and their ideology. This is a “boil the lobster” approach. Slowly but surely private property will be removed the further socialism “progresses”.
 
My son at a major public university is forced to take cross-dressing classes. This is a new requirement now. And I have to pay for it!!!
 
Link please. Seems highly unlikely there is a whole course dedicated to cross dressing at even the most liberal university.

I find it somewhat predictable that our American members confuse socialist ideals with straight out communism. Of course no society wants to become fully comminist in its ideals. Even China and Vietnam have very much watered down communism regulations in many areas where it suits.

Countries that have high socialism generally have better health, education and lifestyle outcomes. I don’t know why everyone points to abotion as more of a problem, capitalist countries also have high abotion rates. My sister runs a right to life group - she is not ‘stamped out’ it’s just most of society don’t agree with her.

Capitalism also prevents a freedom of speech and financial freedom. This is not unique to ‘socialism’.

For the person that used a foced abotion as their example as a socialist country im cohersion. This happened in the UK. They are capitalist.
 
Hi thistle,

The article that I referenced when I started this thread found on the Equestrian Order of the Holy Sepulchre of Jerusalem, Northwestern Lieutenancy website has clear references and links to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and writings of the Popes specific to your question. These represent Catholic doctrine.

Check it out and let me know your thoughts.
 
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Universal healthcare in the United States that is being proposed was started with Obama care. That was unfortunately supported by the US conference of Catholic bishops. However idealistic the position of the bishops conference was In supporting Obama care, it is not universal government run healthcare.

Like any organization made up of humans there are differences of opinion‘s and there are different factions within the Catholic Church. The clear teaching of the Church is that socialism and communism, which are both borne out of Marxism, is evil and Catholics are to oppose it.

I think if a group of individuals who were wealthy decided to create a Privately funded and administered universal healthcare system the church would be for it, But alas, even socialists who are wealthy won’t put their private money where their mouth is, they would rather force others to pay for their ideas instead.
 
Socialism attacks personal property and individual freedom, like freedom of religion. Socialism creates equality where the lower and middle classes are equally poor.
 
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