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Cardinals have the faculty of hearing confessions everywhere in the world even if the diocesan bishop has denied it šŸ˜ƒ

Nice privilege :highprayer:

Do any people have these type of privileges in the Orthodox Church?
 
Paul_Edwards said:
Cardinals have the faculty of hearing confessions everywhere in the world even if the diocesan bishop has denied it šŸ˜ƒ

Nice privilege :highprayer:

Do any people have these type of privileges in the Orthodox Church?
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You are asking if there are bishops who can override the decisions of another bishop in relation to the bishops flock?

No.

Please explain how this is a desirable thing.
 
Paul_Edwards said:
the type of unity youā€™s reject is what I meant by hierarchical unity. An actual hierarchical unity of he hierarchy.

Meaning the unity is hierarchical itself compared to the hierarchy
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Ok. Then it seems that discussion on unity is over.

We have our type, you have your type, neither of us desires the other type. Not much more to say is there?
 
Paul_Edwards said:
People here probably know full well what I mean by unity and are acting like they donā€™t for some secret reason šŸ˜¦
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Yes it must be a conspiracy against you.

Or, more likely, the fact that you had simply said ā€œvisible unityā€ which we do have, when in fact what you meant was ā€œtop-down everything-in-orderā€ unity, which we donā€™t want.

Iā€™d be willing to bet that even if we did have some supreme Holy Synod to which every other Holy Synod answered you would be faulting us for not having a single person at the apex.

In essence your argument against the Orthodox Church is that it has a different ecclesiastical structure than the Catholic Church. On that we are guilty as charged.
 
Nacho45 said:
In my observations I have found Catholic answers (no pun intended) are fairly straight forward and clear while Orthodox answers are much less clear and rarely straight forward, sometimes dancing around the topic and never getting to the heart of the issue at all.
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Are you sure it is not just that you already understand the Catholic answer, or are trying to frame the Orthodox answer within a Catholic understanding? Because I have seen the opposite of what you claim here. Straightforward answers that actually explain the Catholic position are non-existent on so many issues, such as the filioque, papal infallibility, or Original Sin/Immaculate Conception.
 
Nine_Two said:
You are asking if there are bishops who can override the decisions of another bishop in relation to the bishops flock?

No.

Please explain how this is a desirable thing.
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Cardinals canā€™t override other Bishops decisions about the way their diocese runs egā€¦ change any programs or remove any priests or that Bishop. They are not like the Pope.

What this means basically is, if a Cardinal went on holiday to another diocese, he could hear someoneā€™s confession there regardless, I hope what I said did not mislead you šŸ™‚

Saying ā€œbishops who can override the decisions of another bishop in relation to the bishops flock?ā€ could imply way to much about Cardinals.
 
Nine_Two said:
Ok. Then it seems that discussion on unity is over.

We have our type, you have your type, neither of us desires the other type. Not much more to say is there?
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Oh there is!!!

and it is:
God Bless you my brother šŸ™‚
 
Nine_Two said:
Yes it must be a conspiracy against you.

Or, more likely, the fact that you had simply said ā€œvisible unityā€ which we do have, when in fact what you meant was ā€œtop-down everything-in-orderā€ unity, which we donā€™t want.

Iā€™d be willing to bet that even if we did have some supreme Holy Synod to which every other Holy Synod answered you would be faulting us for not having a single person at the apex.

In essence your argument against the Orthodox Church is that it has a different ecclesiastical structure than the Catholic Church. On that we are guilty as charged.
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If it had a Supreme Synod Iā€™d say ā€œthatā€™s the next step in answering my questions and even more visible hierarchal unity. Almost thereā€.

But it would be a bit awkward if no-one headed the synod probably.
 
Paul_Edwards said:
Cardinals canā€™t override other Bishops decisions about the way their diocese runs egā€¦ change any programs or remove any priests or that Bishop. They are not like the Pope.

What this means basically is, if a Cardinal went on holiday to another diocese, he could hear someoneā€™s confession there regardless, I hope what I said did not mislead you šŸ™‚

Saying ā€œbishops who can override the decisions of another bishop in relation to the bishops flock?ā€ could imply way to much about Cardinals.
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I see.

Iā€™m personally not familiar with the rules of a bishop in regards to confession, The highest ranked clergyman Iā€™ve ever had the privilege to have hear my confessionwas an Archimandrate. I know a priest can hear confession from those outside their parish, I wouldnā€™t think there would be an issue with a bishop hearing confession in another bishops territory, assuming they were in the territory legitimately.

But as I say, Iā€™ve never looked into it so I have no idea if this is correct. Since Iā€™m only laity it isnā€™t really an issue Iā€™ve had to deal with.
 
RyanBlack said:
I do not find this to be the case at all, having been both raised Protestant, converted to Orthodoxy, and finally Catholicism, and having studied theology on the graduate level with Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox. Rather, what I find, is that in discussing these issues, different groups approach the matters from different perspectives and with different presuppositions about Holy Scripture and the interpretation thereof, the role of tradition, and church authority. Some people (and they can be found in all groups) are unaware of that, or canā€™t accept that, or simply refuse to respect otherā€™s perspectives , and then the discussions become entirely fruitless.
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Thatā€™s good to hear. I should hope not every persons experience is the same as mine. That would be a very unsettling thing if it were the case. Unfortunately, I agree with your comment about respect and attitudes getting in the way. Arrogance and pride are the destroyers of intelligent dialog. They prevent a person from even attempting to understand what the other is saying. However, I was speaking specifically about answers to questions without the problems added. Orthodoxy tends to lean toward, again from my experience, defending a particular argument rather than a standard of faith. It also leaves far too much open to personal interpretation due to the idea if it wasnā€™t clarified in an approved ecumenical council then do what you want.
 
Paul_Edwards said:
If it had a Supreme Synod Iā€™d say ā€œthatā€™s the next step in answering my questions and even more visible hierarchal unity. Almost thereā€.

But it would be a bit awkward if no-one headed the synod probably.
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Which is exactly my point. Youā€™re looking for a mirror of your own church. It isnā€™t there.

That said a synod is best looked at as a corporate board of directors. It has a head (the CEO), but he serves at the pleasure of the board (member bishops). Although he is leader, he doesnā€™t actually control the Holy Synod.
 
Which is exactly my point. Youā€™re looking for a mirror of your own church. It isnā€™t there.
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True words, but I wonder if they can be self applied.
 
Nine_Two said:
I see.

Iā€™m personally not familiar with the rules of a bishop in regards to confession, The highest ranked clergyman Iā€™ve ever had the privilege to have hear my confessionwas an Archimandrate. I know a priest can hear confession from those outside their parish, I wouldnā€™t think there would be an issue with a bishop hearing confession in another bishops territory, assuming they were in the territory legitimately.

But as I say, Iā€™ve never looked into it so I have no idea if this is correct. Since Iā€™m only laity it isnā€™t really an issue Iā€™ve had to deal with.
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In the Catholic Church a Bishop could not hear confessions in another Bishops diocese only IF that Bishop said they canā€™t. Ordinarily Bishops can hear them everywhere.

Priests however needs to get permission of the local Ordinary in order to hear confessions.

The relevant Canons are:

Can.* 969 Ā§1. The local ordinary alone is competent to confer upon any presbyters whatsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any of the faithful.

Can.* 967 Ā§1. In addition to the Roman Pontiff, cardinals have the faculty of hearing the confessions of the Christian faithful everywhere in the world by the law itself. Bishops likewise have this faculty and use it licitly everywhere UNLESS the diocesan bishop has denied it in a particular case.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM
 
Paul_Edwards said:
In the Catholic Church a Bishop could not hear confessions in another Bishops diocese only IF that Bishop said they canā€™t. Ordinarily Bishops can hear them everywhere.

Priests however needs to get permission of the local Ordinary in order to hear confessions.

The relevant Canons are:

Can.* 969 Ā§1. The local ordinary alone is competent to confer upon any presbyters whatsoever the faculty to hear the confessions of any of the faithful.

Can.* 967 Ā§1. In addition to the Roman Pontiff, cardinals have the faculty of hearing the confessions of the Christian faithful everywhere in the world by the law itself. Bishops likewise have this faculty and use it licitly everywhere UNLESS the diocesan bishop has denied it in a particular case.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P3G.HTM
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So a Cardinal can ignore the ruling bishop? I donā€™t quite understand how this is a desirable thing. I would expect the local bishop to know best. If he has denied someone the sacrament of reconciliation I expect heā€™d have a very good reason, especially in light of the fact that this is the one sacrament which is almost never denied anyone.
 
  1. Who appoints Bishops in the the Orthodox Church? :getholy:
  2. Who removes Bishops in the Orthodox Church? :knight2:
Just wondering šŸ™‚

:bluelite:
 
Nine_Two said:
So a Cardinal can ignore the ruling bishop? I donā€™t quite understand how this is a desirable thing. I would expect the local bishop to know best. If he has denied someone the sacrament of reconciliation I expect heā€™d have a very good reason, especially in light of the fact that this is the one sacrament which is almost never denied anyone.
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He can, but this is a rare privilege. Itā€™s not likely heā€™d ignore the Bishop though, we hope the Pope picks the right people to be Cardinals šŸ™‚
 
There is usually one Cardinal per country, some countries are big though so thatā€™s different.
 
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