Catholic or Roman Catholic?

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JM3 said:
We participate in the Rite of our choice in the Catholic Church. There are not “Churches”. There is only one Church. Just as there are several rooms, but one house. One room in that house does not define that house, no matter the size of that room.

The slur “Christian” did not get redefined. Some slurs have been accepted by their targets and used to define them. Thus, the acceptance of “Roman Catholic” by the Latin Church (especially in the USA, where acceptance of slurs seems to be a matter of pride).

I am confused as to how accepting the Pope as the head of the Church is different from being in communion with him.
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We are members of Churches, not Rites. There is one universal Church, which is made up of 23 particular churches.
 
RyanBlack said:
No.

The 22 sui iuris Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with the Bishop of Rome. That fact does not make them Roman.
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You have not understood what I said. I did not say that the slur “makes” them roman.
 
JM3 said:
You have not understood what I said. I did not say that the slur “makes” them roman.
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In the sense of the term “Roman Catholic” as a slur, then I agree with you.
 
JM3 said:
This is what I said. Your understanding of it seems to be different.
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You also said “We participate in the Rite of our choice in the Catholic Church. There are not ‘Churches’.”
 
RyanBlack said:
You also said “We participate in the Rite of our choice in the Catholic Church. There are not ‘Churches’.”
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Each of the churches in the Catholic Church are defined by their Rite. While each room of the house can be seen as an apartment and a seperate “home”, they are not a seperate house.
 
JM3 said:
Each of the churches in the Catholic Church are defined by their Rite.
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To me, It makes no sense to say that each of the churches in the Catholic Church is defined by its rite, because there are 23 churches, but only 5 or 6 rites. The Ukrainian Catholic Church, the Ruthenian Catholic Church, the Melkite Catholic Church, and the Russian Catholic Church (as well as several others) all have the same rite (the Byzantine Rite), yet they are separate sui iuris churches.
 
Bookcat said:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is for the entire Catholic Church.
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This is correct.

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION
FIDEI DEPOSITUM
ON THE PUBLICATION OF THE
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
PREPARED FOLLOWING THE SECOND VATICAN ECUMENICAL COUNCIL
JOHN PAUL, BISHOP
SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD
FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY
The approval and publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church represent a service which the Successor of Peter wishes to offer to the Holy Catholic Church, to all the particular Churches in peace and communion with the Apostolic See:
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JM3 said:
We participate in the Rite of our choice in the Catholic Church. There are not “Churches”. There is only one Church. Just as there are several rooms, but one house. One room in that house does not define that house, no matter the size of that room.

The slur “Christian” did not get redefined. Some slurs have been accepted by their targets and used to define them. Thus, the acceptance of “Roman Catholic” by the Latin Church (especially in the USA, where acceptance of slurs seems to be a matter of pride).

I am confused as to how accepting the Pope as the head of the Church is different from being in communion with him.
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I don’t think you quite understand what communion means. In the same sense that we all become the one body of Christ through communion, it doesn’t mean we are pieces of the one body of Christ. Each of us are whole and intact, united in communion in Christ and thus to one another. In the same manner, 22 Churches (or actually, thousands of Churches as each Bishop is actually one Church) are united in communion as One Church without existentially having to define them as one organization.

If your definition is correct, then the patristic definition of one bishop, one Church would mean that there is only one true bishop today, and that is the Pope.
 
RyanBlack said:
To me, It makes no sense to say that each of the churches in the Catholic Church is defined by its rite, because there are 23 churches, but only 5 or 6 rites. The Ukrainian Catholic Church, the Ruthenian Catholic Church, the Melkite Catholic Church, and the Russian Catholic Church (as well as several others) all have the same rite (the Byzantine Rite), yet they are separate sui iuris churches.
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I apologize for being inaccurate. I should have included Code of Canon law and Tradition (there may be other things that I have no knowledge of). The point is that they are not seperate Churches, but different churches in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Just as there are different rooms in one house.

But, perhaps, I am wrong. 🤷
 
ConstantineTG said:
We have our own Catechism.
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Yes - wonderfully

And such is in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is the fruit of the Second Vatican Council – the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” for the entire Catholic Church. Not just say for the Melkites or the Copts etc…
 
ConstantineTG said:
I don’t think you quite understand what communion means. In the same sense that we all become the one body of Christ through communion, it doesn’t mean we are pieces of the one body of Christ. Each of us are whole and intact, united in communion in Christ and thus to one another. In the same manner, 22 Churches (or actually, thousands of Churches as each Bishop is actually one Church) are united in communion as One Church without existentially having to define them as one organization.

If your definition is correct, then the patristic definition of one bishop, one Church would mean that there is only one true bishop today, and that is the Pope.
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Your conclusion would not be correct. There are many bishops, but only one is the Vicar of Christ.
 
JM3 said:
I apologize for being inaccurate. I should have included Code of Canon law and Tradition (there may be other things that I have no knowledge of). The point is that they are not seperate Churches, but different churches in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Just as there are different rooms in one house.

But, perhaps, I am wrong. 🤷
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Well, I suppose what one means by “separate” matters here. Indeed, there is just one universal Church. However, within that one universal Church, there are multiple particular Churches, whose bishops are in communion with each other. They are separate in the sense of having their own traditions (with considerable overlap), their own hierarchs, and their own members. A bishop of one particular sui iuris church does not have authority outside of his particular church. An individual Catholic is not enrolled in more than one sui iuris church. So, yes, they are separate churches. On the other hand, the various particular sui iuris churches are in communion with each other, share the same faith, and together make up the one universal Church. So in that sense, their “separateness” is not such that they do not constitute one body.
 
Zenkai said:
What is the official name of the Church, “The Catholic Church” or “The Roman Catholic Church”?
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The official name of the Church is the “Catholic Church” period dot end of sentence. 🙂

This is the name of the Church from the 1st century. I say 1st century because Ignatius of Antioch, was bishop from ~69 a.d. to ~107 a.d, is the first in writing to call the Church the Catholic Church [letter to the Church at Smyrna]. Ignatius was a disciple of St John the apostle

Calling the Chuch the Catholic Church was apparantly not a novel name because no one took exception to the name from the beginning. Polycarp who was from Smyrna, a disciple of St John as well, also called the Church the Catholic Church. Irenaeus who was from Smyrna, and became bishop of Lyons, calls the Church the Catholic Church, in his work “Against Heresies”.

That’s why in the Nicene creed, the “Catholic Church” is an article of faith

“Roman” as a qualifier got traction in English speaking countries due to the Anglicans oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Roman_Catholic as you can see it was used as a pajorative…

St Peter’s in Rome is the central Church of the “Catholic Church” in the world. The Catholic Church has many rites united to the pope ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm. The Latin/Roman rite is ~98% of all Catholics in the world. The other rites make up the remaining ~2%. All rites are 100% Catholic. All rites are equal in dignity and status.

The Catechism of the Church is titled “Catechism of the Catholic Church”.

This is the 1 and only Church established by Jesus, on Peter and the apostles.
 
JM3 said:
Your conclusion would not be correct. There are many bishops, but only one is the Vicar of Christ.
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Which means what exactly? That there is only one Church, and the other Churches are just fractions of the whole? Or that each Church is whole by itself in communion with one another making the greater whole?
Bookcat said:
Yes - wonderfully

And such is in addition to the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is the fruit of the Second Vatican Council – the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” for the entire Catholic Church. Not just say for the Melkites or the Copts etc…
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Our Catechism is not a supplement, it is a complete Catechism for our Church. And the other Churches have their own catechisms. Or they may choose not to have one themselves and adapt the CCC if they wish to. That is their own decision, not something imposed by someone else, like Rome.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Our Catechism is not a supplement, it is a complete Catechism for our Church. And the other Churches have their own catechisms.
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Yes of course I would assume to be a Catechism for the particular Eastern Catholic Church within the Catholic Church. I do not in any way question such. I do not mean to say it is a supplement.

The Melkites or the Copts etc …they can yes have theirs particular one as well.

Sure --such is wonderful.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is for the Catholic Church.

But yes there can be various Catechisms that are particular to the various Churches within the Catholic Church. Splendid!
 
Which brings us back to the question of the thread…

The term that fits best is “The Catholic Church” not “Roman Catholic Church”.
 
Wait a second. Before Vatican 2 wasent the Latin church originally called the Church of Rome? Wouldent the original name be the Roman Church for the west?
 
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