Catholic/Orthodox unity

[Nine_Two]

Here’s the problem, underlined above;

Unity should not be RELIANT on the masses! Truth is not a numbers game! It is either, ‘true’, or it isn’t.

I was not saying it should be put up to popular vote. At the same time you can not simply “unite” two peoples against their will. Look at Somalia for a good example of why.

I wouldn’t see Orthodox as Eastern ANYTHING! I’m in the Pacific. Do you see us as “Tropical” Catholics?

Bishops of the Pacific Rim and ANZAC have various conferences and councils of their own, without Rome. We have traditions that date back to the Dark Ages and BEFORE time! Some, we retain and others we’ve discarded as useless in the light of Christianity!

The Catholic UNIQUENESS, is that whatever doctrine or practice the bishops come up with for this part of the world, even in unanimity, they inform Rome for ratification. In this way we as Catholics know that we are in accordance with the rest of Catholicism…not operating in a Catholic vacuumn of our own!

That is how I know, the Catholics in the East are in accordance with Catholicism as I understand her! That is how I will ‘see’ post-Orthodoxy.

With much ado, in some cases, we have forsaken some of our ‘traditions’ for they mean naught in comparison to the unity with Christ!

“Eastern Catholic” is a term for those Autonomous Churches, based in Eastern Europe, Western Asia, Africa, and India, which follow non-Latin traditions but are in communion with Rome. That you are unaware of this tells me that your version of reunion is far more sinister, you want to assimilate us completely. And that is why there can be no reunion.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I find it very interesting how so many people consider anyone who does not believe in the modern-day Catholic Church & teachings as “anti~Catholic”.

I have an imaginary position?! Ha, ha! Let’s see what Patriarch Anthimos of Constantinople said in his Encyclical in 1895 “Reverting, then, to that teaching which was common to the Churches of the East and of the West until the separation, we ought, with a sincere desire to know the truth, to search what the one, holy, catholic and orthodox apostolic Church of Christ, being then ‘of the same body’, throughout the East and West believed and to hold to this fact entire and unaltered. But whatsoever has in later times been added or taken away, every one has a sacred and indispensable duty, if he sincerely seeks for the glory of God more than for his own glory, that in a spirit of piety he should correct it, considering that by arrogantly continuing in the perversation of the truth he is liable to heavy account before the impartial judgement seat of Christ.”

Looking at the Faith of the early Church, reading the Divine Liturgies of St. James, St. Basil and St. John Chrysostom, reading the 7 Ecumenical Councils and their Canons it is clear that the Orthodox Church has not removed nor added anything to the Christian Faith. Comparing it to the modern-day Catholic Church anyone who actually looks at the evidence (the Councils and the Divine Liturgies) will see that Catholics have added to the Christian Faith and also Protestants have removed from the Christian Faith.

Claiming that the Orthodox Church holds/teaches everything that the modern-day Catholic Church teaches is the most silly idea ever.

That you for calling me an ignorant idiot, I’m sure that must be a compliment coming from you.

I encourage everyone here to heed the words of Patriarch Anthimos. As a Catholic, I saw the truth and wisdom in his words and that launched me into years of studying Church history. Obviously, studying Church history led me to the Orthodox Faith.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I was not saying it should be put up to popular vote. At the same time you can not simply “unite” two peoples against their will. Look at Somalia for a good example of why.

“Eastern Catholic” is a term for those Autonomous Churches, based in Eastern Europe, Western Asia, Africa, and India, which follow non-Latin traditions but are in communion with Rome.

That you are unaware of this tells me that your version of reunion is far more sinister, you want to assimilate us completely. And that is why there can be no reunion.

Amen, amen, amen!

Most Roman Catholics here don’t even understand their own Church. They have no knowledge that the Catholic Church has entered into “union” with Churches that don’t hold all of the Roman dogmas/doctrines. I hope that they will learn about their own Catholic Faith, not just the Roman/Western Rite teachings, and then from that Full understanding of their own Church they will come to learn about Orthodoxy. Then we might get somewhere.

The Orthodox Church as a whole will not accept “union” without actual unity of Faith.

 

[Deconi]

I was not saying it should be put up to popular vote. At the same time you can not simply “unite” two peoples against their will. Look at Somalia for a good example of why.

“Eastern Catholic” is a term for those Autonomous Churches, based in Eastern Europe, Western Asia, Africa, and India, which follow non-Latin traditions but are in communion with Rome. That you are unaware of this tells me that your version of reunion is far more sinister, you want to assimilate us completely. And that is why there can be no reunion.

For the record, I am well aware of our ‘differences’…which is why I used the Pacific! Ever been to a Hawaiian Mass?..an Epsicopalian (In Communion with Rome) Pacific Island gathering?..and several other ‘Protestant’ services who refer to the Pope as the Holy Father, but retain their own tradition and version of worship?

There’s nothing ‘sinister’ in looking toward unity!

Suspicion can be a reflection of a desposition to be sneaky and underhanded! The way forward is not hidden! History is there for examination and the contemporaries exist for questions and answers! Ask the Eastern block Catholic bishops; ask the American collection of bishops; ask the Asians…etc.

***“How does it work, to be in communion with Rome?”

“Were you EVER tricked into anything?”

“What if you don’t agree with something?”

“What time is the last train for Heavensville?”***

…you want to assimilate us completely…

!!!..What is that? Do you see yourself as another species or a different people to the rest of humanity!!! Maybe you see us in the West as aliens moving in to implant microchips in your heads, or something!

Catholic unity is not coerced or forced! Unity does not remove your freedom of will!
The ‘arguments’ will continue as they do now, within and without, Catholicism. The world will continue to go round and round and people will continue to struggle along in life, whether Catholic or not! Some of those Somalians ARE Catholics!

Maybe, I do not see the ‘unity’ you are imagining…and fortunately, neither you or I will determine it.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Please demonstrate your knowledge, please name each the other Rites within the Catholic Church which are in communion with Rome, but are not a Roman/Latin Rite. Then for each of these different Rites list at least 1 difference between that Rite as opposed to the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

I ask you to do these because your below response does not demonstrate that you even know that other Rites exist outside of the Roman Rite. BTW there is no such this as an Epsicopalian (In communion with Rome). Protestant services refering to the Pope as the Holy Father does not constitute actual union with Rome.

I really hope you learn about the Catholic Faith, All of it, not just the Roman Rite and the Protestant splinters from the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church.

For the record, I am well aware of our ‘differences’…which is why I used the Pacific! Ever been to a Hawaiian Mass?..an Epsicopalian (In Communion with Rome) Pacific Island gathering?..and several other ‘Protestant’ services who refer to the Pope as the Holy Father, but retain their own tradition and version of worship?

There’s nothing ‘sinister’ in looking toward unity!

Suspicion can be a reflection of a desposition to be sneaky and underhanded! The way forward is not hidden! History is there for examination and the contemporaries exist for questions and answers! Ask the Eastern block Catholic bishops; ask the American collection of bishops; ask the Asians…etc.

***“How does it work, to be in communion with Rome?”

“Were you EVER tricked into anything?”

“What if you don’t agree with something?”

“What time is the last train for Heavensville?”***

!!!..What is that? Do you see yourself as another species or a different people to the rest of humanity!!! Maybe you see us in the West as aliens moving in to implant microchips in your heads, or something!

Catholic unity is not coerced or forced! Unity does not remove your freedom of will!
The ‘arguments’ will continue as they do now, within and without, Catholicism. The world will continue to go round and round and people will continue to struggle along in life, whether Catholic or not! Some of those Somalians ARE Catholics!

Maybe, I do not see the ‘unity’ you are imagining…and fortunately, neither you or I will determine it.

 

[brigantine]

She’s not arguing but attacking.

The same as you do in almost every Orthodox post you are in. You can disagree and be charitable to others. There have been both RC and EO on this thread that have disagreed but did so in a charitable way. Look at Nine_Two’s and Deconi’s posts and you will see they are not in agreement but they treat each other with respect. Now contrast that with yours and Monica’s and you will see what I’m talking about.

I just want to be clear and say I’m not saying we should all agree with everything. I don’t agree with many RC teachings but I hold no ill will towards the RCC. I really like this Pope even if I do not think he is infallible. I would love there to be a TRUE reunion and a restoration of the Church as it was for the most part in the first millennium. We should ALL pray for this!

 

[brigantine]

[SIGN]AMEN[/SIGN]

 

[Marie5890]

 

[JRKH]

So anyway, if people want to talk about how great unity would be, a first step may be to cease the personal insults against members of the other group in the guise of advice…

This thread is presently as unproductive in its original goal as a beached whale.

:clapping::yup:

Let us grow together in Love.

Peace
James

 

[josie_L]

The same as you do in almost every Orthodox post you are in. You can disagree and be charitable to others.

I am charitable when I disagree with others (even when they are attacking me), and I have in no way disrespected anyone with my comments. I mean, honestly, have you not even read SMM’s posts to me and/or to others???

Calling someone a habitual liar, telling them they need to go to confession, or that there are better leaving the forum for how much they lie??? And then you tell me I do the same thing???

 

[SingleMomMonica]

She’s not arguing but attacking.

Josie, what I’ve done is call you out on your habitually lying. Making up non-sense in your poor attempt to prove the Orthodox Church to be wrong.

If you were right about Orthodoxy being wrong, Josie, your lies would be unnecesary.

I still frequently receive pm’s here, like in the wee hours this very morning, by people who are truly seeking the truth. It is for them that I stay here. Not you. But I’m sure that you have been instrumental in people here both Protestant & Catholic who can see that you’ve been lying that have given them the extra push they’ve needed to pursue the truth dispite your attempt to do the opposite.

So many people here have converted to Orthodoxy while here on CAF (myself included - reversion after about a year of apostacy) despite your lies.

Thinking I’d do well placing you back on ignore as it makes me feel so awful inside for you that you continue to persist in your habitual sin of lies and slander against the Church even after being called on them and proven wrong.

I can’t believe how many Catholics here just out & out ignore the 7 Ecumennical Councils when they disagree with modern-day Catholic teachings…how can people be at peace in their hearts when rejecting the very foundations of the Church? I know I was not at peace in mine when I was a Catholic because I could see through the history of the Church that we our doctrines had swayed from that original Christian teaching.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I am charitable when I disagree with others (even when they are attacking me), and I have in no way disrespected anyone with my comments. I mean, honestly, have you not even read SMM’s posts to me and/or to others???

Calling someone a habitual liar, telling them they need to go to confession, or that there are better leaving the forum for how much they lie??? And then you tell me I do the same thing???

Josie you have made up lies and I’ve called you on them.

Yes anyone who is in “mortal sin” according to the CCC must go to Confession - I’ve used the standards of your own Church. You are not lying out of ignorance but with full knowledge and intent.

I have not suggested that you leave the forums, but that you refrain from posting here until you can do so without lying…but it should not surprise me or anyone here that you have once again “fudged” the truth with your comment.

 

[spn82756]

Don’t cross singlemommonica! She owns this place and is its disciplinarian. Can’t you tell by the way to talks to people. She is God’s true rep on Earth.

She is the only person I’ve thought of putting on my ignore list. But then again…I have that many fewer laughs every day.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I stay here so that when people come to me I can give them answers to their questions, I don’t see that as prosleytising.

I see prosleytising as going out and trying to bring people without questions to the Faith. Like going door to door for example.

Two different things entirely.

Josie L is back on ignore, so I will no longer be responding to her outright lies. Hopefully someone else will address them as post them.

 

[brigantine]

I mean, honestly, have you not even read SMM’s posts to me and/or to others???

I called her out on this did I not?

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Don’t cross singlemommonica! She is God’s true rep on Earth.

O brother?!

 

[SingleMomMonica]

That is Not true. I have continuously, in my posts, encouraged Catholic to learn their Faith, not just one Rite of it.

When people, such as Josie, continually attack the Orthodox Faith here with lies and I think very seriously about throwing in the towel & leaving CAF altogther. It is then that I end up with another pm from someone, in most cases from people I’ve never seen post here, with questions about the Orthodox Faith.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

I called her out on this did I not?

Yes you did. And as a result I’ve placed her back onto my ignore list.

 

[spn82756]

O brother?!

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Hi folks. I lost count of all the posts I had to prune from this thread.
The topic is Catholic/Orthodox unity.
Stay on topic and stop the bickering.
Thank you.