Catholic Polygamy

[Porknpie]

I think a better example would be to point out I Timothy chapter 3. Paul instructs that bishops and deacons must be the husband of one wife. This implies that some men with more than one wife were made bishops and deacons. Whether they were married to multiple wives before becoming a Christian we don’t know. By the way the Fundamental Latter Day Saints still practice polygamy.

“Must be the husband of one wife” is referring that those entering the ministry should not remarry after the death of a spouse. It is not referring to polygamy.

Haydock commentary below:

A bishop (the same name then comprehended priest) to be blameless, as to life and conversation, adorned, (says St. Chrysostom) with all virtues.** See also St. Jerome in his letter to Oceanus. — The[1] husband of one wife. It does not signify, that to be a bishop or priest he must be a married man; nor that he must be a man who has but one wife at a time; but that he must be a man who has never been married but once, or to one wife:** because to be married more than once, was looked upon as a mark of too great an inclination to sensual pleasures. It is true, at that time a man might be chosen to be a bishop or priest whose wife was living, but from that time he was to live with her as with a sister. This St. Jerome testifies as to the discipline of the Latin Church. (Witham) — The meaning is not that every bishop should have a wife, (for St. Paul himself had none) **but that no one should be admitted to the holy orders of bishop, priest, or deacon, who had been married more than once. **(Challoner) — Sober.[2] The Greek rather signifies watchful. — Chaste.[3] There is nothing for this in the Greek text at present, unless in some few manuscripts. Perhaps the ancient Latin interpreter added it, as being signified and comprehended in the other words. — Teacher: a doctor, as the Greek signifies.

 

[manualman]

Attempts by the Austrian government in the 16th century to over-power church teaching are no more valid than attempts by the American government today to do the same. Neither the Austrian edicts then nor the HHS mandate today are evidence that the church permits polygamy or contraception (respectively).

If the OP wishes to demonstrate that the catholic church has at some point officially sanctioned polygamy, he’s going to have to prove it with documents from the catholic church herself. Silence is not endorsement. It may demonstrate bad management and incompetent leadership, but we’ve really never claimed infallibility on those matters, have we? Only an endorsement is an endorsement. Cough it up or shut up!

 

[twopekinguys]

The following is a question calling for a “yes” or “no” answer, to which you may then append your reasoning.

In light of the following quotation (next paragraph), should members of the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church feel conciliatory and understanding – even forgiving – toward current members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in light of the fact that for about 40 years, from about the early 1850s to the 1890s, some former members of the LDS church practiced polygamy? Here’s the quotation:

“On February 14, 1650, the parliament at Nürnberg decreed that, because so many men were killed during the Thirty Years’ War, the churches for the following ten years could not admit any man under the age of 60 into a monastery. Priests and ministers not bound by any monastery were allowed to marry. Lastly, the decree stated that every man was allowed to marry up to ten women. The men were admonished to behave honorably, provide for their wives properly, and prevent animosity among them.”

(Joseph Alfred X. Michiels, Secret History of the Austrian Government and of its Systematic Persecutions of Protestants (London: Chapman and Hall, 1859) p. 85 (copy at Google Books), the author stating that he is quoting from a copy of the legislation; see also William Walker Rockwell, Die Doppelehe des Landgrafen Philipp von Hessen (Marburg, 1904), p. 280, n. 2 (copy at Google Books), which reports the number of wives allowed was two; and see Heinrich Christoph Büttner, Johann Heinrich Keerl, und Johann Bernhard Fischer. Fränkisches Archiv, herausgegeben. I Band. 1790. (at p. 155) (setting forth a 1790 printing of the legislation).)

The Bible doesn’t tell us that it is ok to douse ourselves in gasoline and light it either.

How is that for burning down your strawman?

As others have asked, What’s your point?

 

[zaffiroborant]

The Bible doesn’t tell us that it is ok to douse ourselves in gasoline and light it either.

How is that for burning down your strawman?

As others have asked, What’s your point?

I wonder if he’ll come back and explain his point.

 

[mgteich]

He did. Of course, presbyters could not have more than one wife. Polygamy was common in the Middle East during biblical times and for many centuries thereafter. Luther could find no prohibition.

Didn’t Luther say he could find nothing in Holy Scripture that forbid a man from having more than one wife?

 

[robwar]

He did. Of course, presbyters could not have more than one wife. Polygamy was common in the Middle East during biblical times and for many centuries thereafter. Luther could find no prohibition.

Yes, there was polygamy in the OT times and it is recorded in the Bible with a number of different OT characters. However, that does not constitute and endorsement of Polygamy. OT also records the problems and conflicts that arise from Polygamy. Slavery is the same thing. It was common back then too. The OP brought up some German conference done by the German Government at the time and tried to make it sound like the Catholic Church was behind it. It is not true. This was not a Church conference, it is not Church teaching and polygamy was never or will be supported by the Catholic Church. The people involved were Lutheran and not Catholic and this was done to confuse and manipulate the gullible and there are not gullible Catholics on CAF.

 

[twopekinguys]

I wonder if he’ll come back and explain his point.

You’re kidding, right?

 

[mikelionheart]

Come on Stevie boy where are you?

Perhaps he’s beamed up to his spaceship to consult with Joe Smithy for his next reply.

 

[twopekinguys]

His profile shows last login on 10-4

 

[agnes_therese]

The following is a question calling for a “yes” or “no” answer, to which you may then append your reasoning.

In light of the following quotation (next paragraph), should members of the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church feel conciliatory and understanding – even forgiving – toward current members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in light of the fact that for about 40 years, from about the early 1850s to the 1890s, some former members of the LDS church practiced polygamy?

Current members had nothing to do wth what happened in “the early 1850s to the 1890s.” What is there to forgive?

 

[robwar]

I think a better example would be to point out I Timothy chapter 3. Paul instructs that bishops and deacons must be the husband of one wife. This implies that some men with more than one wife were made bishops and deacons. Whether they were married to multiple wives before becoming a Christian we don’t know. By the way the Fundamental Latter Day Saints still practice polygamy.

This does not imply that at all. The one wife comment applies to having been married more than once (remarried after a divorce or death of spouse) and does not mean that what you are trying to twist it into meaning that someone is married to different women at the same time. The Catholic Church still follows this today in looking at candidates for the priesthood or deacon. You are trying to justify polygamy or it’s early support in LDS? I hope you realize that on CAF, the Catholics are generally well informed and know their faith and not available to being confused or fooled here.

 

[zaffiroborant]

His profile shows last login on 10-4

Maybe he’ll be back after all the excitement from their general conference dies down. They are all a twitter because the Holy Ghost told the prophet to lower the missionary age requirement to 18 for boys and 19 for girls.

 

[RPRPsych]

The following is a question calling for a “yes” or “no” answer, to which you may then append your reasoning.

In light of the following quotation (next paragraph), should members of the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church feel conciliatory and understanding – even forgiving – toward current members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in light of the fact that for about 40 years, from about the early 1850s to the 1890s, some former members of the LDS church practiced polygamy? Here’s the quotation:

“On February 14, 1650, the parliament at Nürnberg decreed that, because so many men were killed during the Thirty Years’ War, the churches for the following ten years could not admit any man under the age of 60 into a monastery. Priests and ministers not bound by any monastery were allowed to marry. Lastly, the decree stated that every man was allowed to marry up to ten women. The men were admonished to behave honorably, provide for their wives properly, and prevent animosity among them.”

(Joseph Alfred X. Michiels, Secret History of the Austrian Government and of its Systematic Persecutions of Protestants (London: Chapman and Hall, 1859) p. 85 (copy at Google Books), the author stating that he is quoting from a copy of the legislation; see also William Walker Rockwell, Die Doppelehe des Landgrafen Philipp von Hessen (Marburg, 1904), p. 280, n. 2 (copy at Google Books), which reports the number of wives allowed was two; and see Heinrich Christoph Büttner, Johann Heinrich Keerl, und Johann Bernhard Fischer. Fränkisches Archiv, herausgegeben. I Band. 1790. (at p. 155) (setting forth a 1790 printing of the legislation).)

No.

Sigh. If you’re going to do apologetics, at least pick a good argument!

The Church’s authority rests on Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium.

The above was the misguided judgment of a secular court, and has nothing to do with either of the three. It’s a non sequitur.

(And, for the record, the main differences between the Catholic faith and Mormonism aren’t just about polygamy; they are far more fundamental. So even if someone were to be blinded by the “Council of Nurnberg” bit and say “yes”, those differences would remain.)

 

[zaffiroborant]

No.

Sigh. If you’re going to do apologetics, at least pick a good argument!

The Church’s authority rests on Scripture, Tradition and the Magisterium.

The above was the misguided judgment of a secular court, and has nothing to do with either of the three. It’s a non sequitur.

(And, for the record, the main differences between the Catholic faith and Mormonism aren’t just about polygamy; they are far more fundamental. So even if someone were to be blinded by the “Council of Nurnberg” bit and say “yes”, those differences would remain.)

That they have to really work this polygamy thing anyway they can clearly shows it is a matter of embarrassment for them. As a result what we see are instances like we have here where the OP desperately makes up stuff to make themselves feel better about something that deep down they know is wrong. I have to say that of all the excuses, justifications and rationalizations one could come up with the “he did it too” (not that the Catholic church ever did) is one of the poorest.

 

[twopekinguys]

Maybe he’ll be back after all the excitement from their general conference dies down. They are all a twitter because the Holy Ghost told the prophet to lower the missionary age requirement to 18 for boys and 19 for girls.

Yeah, I saw that on another board…oh yippee!!!

 

[zaffiroborant]

Yeah, I saw that on another board…oh yippee!!!

Well he visited this morning but wouldn’t post to clarify his point or address the points others have brought up. It appears he knows there is no way to defend the title of his thread.

 

[zaffiroborant]

His profile shows last login on 10-4

On right now, maybe a response?

 

[rinnie]

The following is a question calling for a “yes” or “no” answer, to which you may then append your reasoning.

In light of the following quotation (next paragraph), should members of the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church feel conciliatory and understanding – even forgiving – toward current members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in light of the fact that for about 40 years, from about the early 1850s to the 1890s, some former members of the LDS church practiced polygamy? Here’s the quotation:

“On February 14, 1650, the parliament at Nürnberg decreed that, because so many men were killed during the Thirty Years’ War, the churches for the following ten years could not admit any man under the age of 60 into a monastery. Priests and ministers not bound by any monastery were allowed to marry. Lastly, the decree stated that every man was allowed to marry up to ten women. The men were admonished to behave honorably, provide for their wives properly, and prevent animosity among them.”

(Joseph Alfred X. Michiels, Secret History of the Austrian Government and of its Systematic Persecutions of Protestants (London: Chapman and Hall, 1859) p. 85 (copy at Google Books), the author stating that he is quoting from a copy of the legislation; see also William Walker Rockwell, Die Doppelehe des Landgrafen Philipp von Hessen (Marburg, 1904), p. 280, n. 2 (copy at Google Books), which reports the number of wives allowed was two; and see Heinrich Christoph Büttner, Johann Heinrich Keerl, und Johann Bernhard Fischer. Fränkisches Archiv, herausgegeben. I Band. 1790. (at p. 155) (setting forth a 1790 printing of the legislation).)

Well to begin with the Catholic Church forgives anything. As long as you confess, repent and rid yourself of the sin.

But next it was never a teaching of the Church and the CC was here first. So I am not sure what you are asking.

 

[twopekinguys]

On right now, maybe a response?

No such luck

 

[Fatboys]

The following is a question calling for a “yes” or “no” answer, to which you may then append your reasoning.

In light of the following quotation (next paragraph), should members of the Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church feel conciliatory and understanding – even forgiving – toward current members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in light of the fact that for about 40 years, from about the early 1850s to the 1890s, some former members of the LDS church practiced polygamy? Here’s the quotation:

“On February 14, 1650, the parliament at Nürnberg decreed that, because so many men were killed during the Thirty Years’ War, the churches for the following ten years could not admit any man under the age of 60 into a monastery. Priests and ministers not bound by any monastery were allowed to marry. Lastly, the decree stated that every man was allowed to marry up to ten women. The men were admonished to behave honorably, provide for their wives properly, and prevent animosity among them.”

(Joseph Alfred X. Michiels, Secret History of the Austrian Government and of its Systematic Persecutions of Protestants (London: Chapman and Hall, 1859) p. 85 (copy at Google Books), the author stating that he is quoting from a copy of the legislation; see also William Walker Rockwell, Die Doppelehe des Landgrafen Philipp von Hessen (Marburg, 1904), p. 280, n. 2 (copy at Google Books), which reports the number of wives allowed was two; and see Heinrich Christoph Büttner, Johann Heinrich Keerl, und Johann Bernhard Fischer. Fränkisches Archiv, herausgegeben. I Band. 1790. (at p. 155) (setting forth a 1790 printing of the legislation).)

I am not sure why a LDS person would come here and inflame. I was actually looking for this reference to catholics allowed living polygamy because I remember reading about it from an article. I ran across this website and forum. The reason I was looking for this was because a relative of mine joined the catholic church and I asked why. They struggled with the Church living polygamy at one time. And so I search came here. Anyway as I read from the posts here I can tell that many here do not favor the LDS… And so if you have any questions about my faith, please ask. Love to answer. As well I will also ask questions of you. I have spent many years studying all religions as well as my own. Love to learn.