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hosemonkey
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nice story about that kid.
In my parish church we have a Papal flag on the right and an American flag on the left of the sanctuary. I see no problem with the American flag in the sanctuary(some have issues with it) because the flag of our country symbolizes the Constitutional guarantee of freedom of worship(although many in government and on the Left would deny us that freedom) I is also a reminder to me, as a veteran, of the price in blood that we have paid to defend that freedom. Although only a piece of cloth, that flag is sacred to me because of what it represents.
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grandfather
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I agree with you. A flag has no place by the altar. If the queen is like the flag, I hope she sits in a pew, and thank you for trying to clear up a cultural disconnect.
Does she attend public religious services regularly? As Defender of the Faith one would think she would be keenly interested in matters of religion. She does seem pretty silent on religious issues though. With all the controversy lately about homosexuals marrying and being ordained, women priests and bishops, a major Anglican schism, it would seem she would have something to say as Defender of the Faith.
As a young British Catholic I wonder what you think about the long prohibition against an heir to the symbolic throne marrying a Catholic while Anglicans insist they are Catholic.
It seems like quite a fuss over a symbolic office. Maybe it is another one of those cultural things, difficult for outsiders to comprehend, or impossible.
It does not matter that an outsider does not understand this. She is not my queen. To me she is what Mary Mother of God is to Protestsants, just another woman and probably a very nice person.
If the British are happy with their royal pageantry and pomp and love and esteem their queen it is their business. If she and her progeny are necessary to complete their national identity it does not matter that anyone else thinks it is silly.
If the shoe fits wear it proudly.
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andrewstx
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Interesting. Their is also the shared Catholic/Anglican shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham.
Also in GB and I think in Yorkshire.
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liturgyluver
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Yes the Queen attends church every Sunday and often attends other events too.
The ban on the monarch marrying a Catholic is now being repealed.
Though I am not especially a monarchist, I have great respect for the Queen, but the 27 million tourists we get in London are especially fascinated.
As has already been said several times to you her role is symbolic so she does not comment on the things you mention.
And by the way Our Lady is certainly not just another lady to Anglicans. They revere her highly, their Marian hymns are far superior to ours.
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GKC
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The Lady Shrine in my Anglican parish is OL of Walsingham.
Sing of Mary, an Anglican hymn, is my wife’s favorite hymn.
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andrewstx
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I belive that HM most often worships in the palace chapels and has her own private chaplain.
I have also heard that the Royal Family dislikes recieving Holy Commion in public. {Perhaps that is why royal weddings are not Nuptual Eucharists.
When in the US she worships in the National Cathedral.
When she crosses the border to Scotland she becomes Presbyterian.
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grandfather
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That is quite a transformation. Tell me this is not a joke.
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ltwin
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No joke. The national church of Scotland is the reformed Church of Scotland. As monarch of Scotland, she has to be a member of that church while in Scotland. However, she is simply a member, not supreme governor.
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andrewstx
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It is no joke. HM is queen of the United Kingdom and in Scotland the church becomes the Presbyteran Church of Scotland.
They have Episcopal churches there, but they aren’t the official state recognised church.
When an Episcopal bishop tried to use the Book of Common Prayer, it litteraly started a riot.
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ltwin
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Haha yes. A bunch of indignant ladies chased the bishops through the streets shouting “The Mass has come amongst us.”
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ltwin
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If I’m not mistaken, I believe its been reported that the Queen has expressed (privately of course) concern over the turmoil of the Anglican Communion and is not particularly happy with Archbishop Rowan Williams’ handling of it. I’ve heard that she’s afraid the Anglican Communion will break up on her watch and that she has sympathy for the conservative Anglicans.
At least that’s what I’ve read somewhere. And conservative Anglicans have written to the Queen on their activities, as can be seen on Stand Firm.
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grandfather
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I guess she is in a tough spot there, being a symbolic dignitary with no authority having to keep quiet. It makes perfect sense to call her the defender of the faith.
How does a person, the defender of the faith, change religions when borders are crossed? The cultural dissonance is starting to turn to total befuddlement. Maybe new terminology is needed to clear this up. Call it temporary apostacy.
What do the conservative Anglicans hope to achieve by writing to the Queen? She has no authority to exercise. Hasn’t the Anglican Communion already broken up?
Is she the defender of the Presbyterian faith in Scotland or does she drop the title and become a regular Presbyterian when in Calvinist mode?
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ltwin
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He position is no different than the Presidents of various republican governments who are head of state but not head of government.The title “Defender of the Faith” is rooted in history. The British monarchy is an historical institution. I suppose its sort of like the Catholic Church hanging on to titular sees. People find that it is beneficial to hang on to things that have long ceased functioning in any meaningful way and give new meaning to them.
The fact is that this person, the Queen of the United Kingdom, is well the Queen of the United Kingdom. She just happens to be the sovereign of two countries with two different national churches. The Stuarts tried to force bishops and the Book of Common Prayer on Scotland so there would be uniformity of religion; it didn’t work.
They were informing her in a polite way that all is not well in the Church of England.
The Anglican Communion has not broken up, not yet at least. Those conservatives who have left TEC still claim that they have not left the Communion and would accept recognition if it was offered. They have come under the authority of Global South Primates.
She is just a regular member of the Church of Scotland, though she does appoint a ceremonial representative to that church’s general assembly.
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GKC
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“The Anglican Communion has not broken up, not yet at least. Those conservatives who have left TEC still claim that they have not left the Communion and would accept recognition if it was offered. They have come under the authority of Global South Primates”
Not quite accurate. A number of Anglicans left TEC, beginning back in late 1979, to form what are now known as Continuing Anglican Churches, or the Continuum. They are definitely not in the Anglican Communion, nor are they associated with AMiA, or other groups under Global South jurisdictions.
GKC.
posterus traditus Anglicanus.
Not quite accurate. A number of Anglicans left TEC, beginning back in late 1979, to form what are now known as Continuing Anglican Churches, or the Continuum. They are definitely not in the Anglican Communion, nor are they associated with AMiA, or other groups under Global South jurisdictions.
GKC.
posterus traditus Anglicanus.
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ltwin
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I know that, but it doesn’t seem like those involved in the current “crisis” within the Anglican Communion wont to break ties with the Communion. I guess you could look at it like it has already broken up; just like you could say that the Roman Catholic Church has broken up because Protestants left in the 1500s. I guess it depends on the person.
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GKC
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Fair assessment. You are correct that most of the current disaffected Episcopalians are not seeking to leave the Communion, but (in the case of the current ACNA) are likely hoping to replace TEC as the Communion Church in the US.
The Continuers who left first tended to be more stringently orthodox, more uniformly Anglo-Catholic, than those in ACNA or AmiA.
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GKC
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I don’t think so. If that’s the Episcopal Missionary Church, it’s a member of the Federation of Anglican Churches in the Americas, which, like AMiA, is somehow partnered with ACNA. The EMC was an out-growth of the Episcopal Synod of America, and was the last major Continuing jurisdiction to leave ECUSA. The component jurisdictions of the FACA are all accounted as Continuing Churches, which the ACNA and AMiA are not. I make no claims to understanding what all the inter-relationships mean, esp. lately. Anglicans are not only a motley crew, they are sometimes inscrutable.
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andrewstx
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To be honest all the schisms in the Episcopal church(es) confuse me.
I converted from the Epsicopal church before all of the break-offs, before their were women clergy and admitted Homosexal priests.
I think there are a lot of homosexual priests in both the Episcopal and Catholic churches, and celibate is celibate. It should make no difference. But then they decided to “come out of the closet” and be sexually active. And that, I think is when the schism began.
Orthodox used to mean one who beleives in the creeds, the virgin birth and the
ressurection.
Now it seems to be a code word for those who dislike homosexuals.
The definition of Orthodox seems to have been changed amoung the schismatics.
I converted from the Epsicopal church before all of the break-offs, before their were women clergy and admitted Homosexal priests.
I think there are a lot of homosexual priests in both the Episcopal and Catholic churches, and celibate is celibate. It should make no difference. But then they decided to “come out of the closet” and be sexually active. And that, I think is when the schism began.
Orthodox used to mean one who beleives in the creeds, the virgin birth and the
ressurection.
Now it seems to be a code word for those who dislike homosexuals.
The definition of Orthodox seems to have been changed amoung the schismatics.
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