Catholic Position on Evolution

[tparsons]

Where can I find the catholic position on evolution and what is the catholic position for those who know?

Thank you!

 

[1ke]

The Church does not have a “position” on evolution. Evolution is the realm of science, not faith and morals. Where it does not contradict the faith, there is no issue.

However, some propositions are not compatible with the faith.

Pope Pius XII explained what Catholics must hold – ex nihilo creation of the universe, the special creation of our souls, and monogenism (descent from one original set of first parents) in his encyclical Humani Generis.

 

[rossum]

Where can I find the catholic position on evolution and what is the catholic position for those who know?

Thank you!

As well as Humani Generis, you might also want to look at Address of Pope John Paul II to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences:Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis.

rossum

 

[PhilVaz]

One question to all you evolution believers: So then “what” exactly were Adam and Eve? Apes or fish? This whole thread made me sick to my stomach! So this is Catholicism? The Church of Christ? The Church Christ gave His life for? A bunch of apes evolving into Christians? I’m heartsick. This thread just wisened me up to not waste my time here anymore!

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/BD12.gif

 

[wildleafblower]

Dear Phil

Are human beings descendents of apes?
Humans are not descendents of chimpanzees, gorillas, or any other ape. But, if we believe in evolution, then we can imagine an ape-like, human-like creature that lived millions of years ago - a common ancestor to modern humans (Homo sapiens) and modern chimpanzees, gorillas, and so on. Louis Leakey sent Jane Goodall to Gombe because he believed the behaviour that is shared by humans and chimpanzees today might have been present in the common ancestor and, probably, the Stone Age hominids whose fossils he discovered.

and

How can I get a chimp as a pet?
We appreciate your interest in chimpanzees and your love of animals. However, the best way to help wild animals is to leave them in the wild, where they belong. Though they are cute and cuddly when they are young, chimpanzees do not make good pets. They are wild animals, and when they mature, they can be destructive to homes, furniture, and backyards. They are strong and potentially dangerous. People who have had chimps for pets try to find ways to get rid of them when they get older and stronger. Usually, they end up in medical research programs.

janegoodall.ca/about-faqs-chimps.php#q7

What do chimpanzees eat? : Jane Goodall

Adam and Eve were the first human couple is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and scientists don’t have a problem with that.

Human Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two ancestral chromosomes
by our Alec MacAndrew
evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm
http://www.evolutionpages.com/chromosome_2.htm

And let’s not forget that Nobel prize winner Christian de Duve, a member of the Vatican’s Scientific Advisory Committee, says evolution is a FACT.

**The Theory of Evolution **
by very own in-house scientist, Dr.Alec MacAndrew
evolutionpages.com/intro_evolution.htm
http://www.evolutionpages.com/intro_evolution.htm

 

[PhilVaz]

wild << Adam and Eve were the first human couple is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and scientists don’t have a problem with that. >>

Well…but…at one point they were either ancient apes, fish, tadpoles, or kumquat. Gotcha.

Sorry decided to go crazy creationist for a day posting some oldies.

Phil P

 

[wildleafblower]

Well…but…at one point they [human beings] were either ancient apes, fish, tadpoles, or kumquat. Gotcha.

Phil P

Phil Vaz! Tisk Tisk

Let’s adhere to semantics. The first human couple had a tiny chimp chromozome in them. Every new species is a result of a mutation.

Philly, you are a silly human being! Please don’t confuse the children. Human beings were never apes, fish, tadpoles, or kumquats We can avoid :juggle: Remember only human beings know how to forgive. :console:

I wrote a poem long ago for children about Adam and Eve explaining to them through Adam and Eve we can tell a story about the first human couple and their discovery of “Forgiveness”.

Adam eventually forgave Eve
for giving him the apple.
Eve eventually forgave Adam
for taking a bite of that apple.
God forgave them both.
Forgiveness began in the Garden!

PLANT A BEAUTIFUL GARDEN IN YOUR HEART:heart:

Oh, be sure to read the CATECHISM of THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. You can pick the language that you may wish to read it.
vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm

The Compendium OF THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH and the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH was approved for publication on March 20, 2005 by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, President of the Special Commission. On June 28, 2005, the vigil of the Solemnity of the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, in his first year of his Pontificate, BENEDICTUS PP. XVI gave his approval and publication of the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. As Catholics it is extremely important when reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church to refer to the Compendium.

Here is the COMPENDIUM that explains about the first human couple (Adam and Eve):
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

Here is the CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH in English:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

I encourage Catholics to read the COMPENDIUM, especially
Part One, The Profession of Faith, Section One
“I believe” – “We believe”.

I like this part because God can’t possibly be everywhere or in everything! It would ruin science :

29. Why is there no contradiction between faith and science?

159 Though faith is above reason, there can never be a contradiction between faith and science because both originate in God. It is God himself who gives to us the light both of reason and of faith.

“I believe, in order to understand; and I understand, the better to believe.” (Saint Augustine)
I love science and I have a supernatural Faith in God which shines ever the more because I love JESUS ! Oh, I love the Holy Spirit too for always helping me out!

And Phil, you are special. Thank you for being you. You always have a way of tickling my heart. God bless you.

---

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Where can I find the catholic position on evolution and what is the catholic position for those who know?

The Catholic position is that evolution is more than [just] a hypothesis, as articulated by John Paul II.

That is to say, no one will throw you out of the Church if you disbelieve in Darwin’s theory, but theology is done on the supposition that he is not substantially wrong.

 

[Pope_Noah_I]

How is human evolution compatible with Catholicism? How is that all humans came from one couple without that couple being something special? So for millions of years, the human body evolved, and in the generation just before Adam and Eve, they had no souls? God just picked two out of millions and ensouled them? Why not en-soul the entire generation? What of the other humans without souls? Undoubtedly their desendants would be around today, souless. They could walk, talk and function like the ensouled ones, but they have no eternal life? I find that the whole argument collapses on itself. Either the human body was created as it is today by the hand of God, or the idea of Original Sin is null.

 

[Orogeny]

How is human evolution compatible with Catholicism? How is that all humans came from one couple without that couple being something special? So for millions of years, the human body evolved, and in the generation just before Adam and Eve, they had no souls? God just picked two out of millions and ensouled them? Why not en-soul the entire generation? What of the other humans without souls? Undoubtedly their desendants would be around today, souless. They could walk, talk and function like the ensouled ones, but they have no eternal life? I find that the whole argument collapses on itself. Either the human body was created as it is today by the hand of God, or the idea of Original Sin is null.

That is nothing but an argument from incredulity. Are you saying that God could not have used evolution? Really?

Peace

Tim

 

[Knight4Christ]

The website in which this info was taken has fallen away. So it can not be sourced that way. But I think it rather good, which is why I’ve kept it on file.

D.E. means Darwinian Evolution

Rejection of Polygenism / Animal Lineage

Pope Pius XII in reaffirming constant magisterial teaching specifically repudiated polygenism (multiple sets of human parents) in his encyclical Humani generis. Catholic teaching is clear that all people share in the “original sin” of one first couple, Adam and Eve.[16] Only those exegetical methods which employ a low-view of scripture (which itself is incompatible with orthodox Catholicism) and reject the constant teaching of the Catholic Church can reconcile the completely natural generation of human beings from non-human bi-pedal primates (animals) who at some point become human by the supernatural insertion of immaterial (spiritual) souls. This scenario called for by D.E. is unsatisfactory for multiple reasons including:

1.) D.E. violates the “substance view” of human personhood which the Catholic Church has taught since St. Thomas Aquinas integrated Aristotelian philosophy with Christianity. It holds that the human soul is the “organizing principle” or “form” of the human body (matter) such that the combination becomes a body/soul composite person of matter/form.[17] It is philosophically untenable to posit that God at some point placed a human soul in a non-human bi-pedal primate animal which would already have had its own organizing principle (form) in Aristotelian/Thomistic terms. Under such a scenario it would be correct to state that the first human person (Adam) had “animals” for parents since in Catholic teaching the soul and the body together constitute the composite person as a matter/form composite unity of body/soul which is indivisible during life. (In addition of course, the notion that Adam had animals for parents is contrary to Divine Revelation). The D.E. scenario implies that God would begin the human race by rejecting the truth of the “substance view” of human personhood and then subsequently allow his actual method of human creation to be misrepresented in Scripture and Tradition thereafter as if He had specially created Adam as a body/soul composite entirely new entity.

It also means that God would have dignified a non-human animal by raising it up to the “Image of God” (Imago Dei) through replacement of its animal soul with the spiritual soul of the first man. This is extremely difficult to justify given the multiple biblical texts and copious magisterial commentary which refer to Adam’s Special Creation, body and soul. Moreover, if Adam’s body descended directly that is, was generated physically from animals, then Adam’s parents were “animals” since one is a parent of the entire person not only of the body. This is clear when one considers that the Virgin Mary is truly the mother of God by conceiving and giving birth to Jesus Christ the second person of the Holy Trinity (since Christ is a Divine Person with two natures, one human and one Divine) i.e. she is not only the mother of Christ’s human nature.[18] The scenario which D.E. seems to demand would directly contradict numerous Scriptural references and much magisterial teaching indicating that Adam had no antecedent other than God. It is fraught with contradictions, as well as irresolvable and unnecessary problems. On the other hand, if D.E. is capable of harmonizing the special creation of Adam, (body and soul) then this objection could be dropped. It remains theoretically an open question from this writer’s perspective albeit extremely problematic.[19] The author knows of no such assertion by D.E. proponents and is aware of no way to harmonize D.E. with the special creation of Adam body and soul. Obviously, I.D. of the human body utilizing a common design with variation on a theme could explain it since it would represent special creation of one first couple. This was clearly the issue which concerned Pope Pius XII in Humani Generis. Subsequent research in biology has not lessened the concern. It has only become more so.

2.) D.E.’s prediction of non-human animal ancestry for Humans (Adam and Eve) is contrary to DNA mutation rate studies, mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome data as well as morphological studies demonstrating that humans have no direct genetic, biochemical or morphological link to bi-pedal primates.[20] The basic scientific research data amassed over the past 15 years is growing; there is no pre-human (lower animal) bi-pedal primate to human ancestral connection. The supposed “missing link” remains undiscovered. This is suggestive of special Creation of Adam and Eve rather than D.E. which calls for common descent with modification from non-human animals. Accordingly, anthropologists should base their conclusions on the data at hand not that which is non-existent and called for by an a-priori commitment to D.E. alone as a total explanation for terrestrial life.[21]

3.) Constant magisterial teaching which holds that humans were directly (Specially) created by God from the “dust of the earth” that is non-living pre-existent matter not pre-existent living animals.
“Then The LORD God formed (bara and asa are both used in the biblical Hebrew with reference to the creation of humans, connoting something entirely new {presumably soul} and something already existent {presumably non-living matter referred to as “dust”}) man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being;’ Man whole and entire, is therefore willed by God.” (CCC # 362 and Gen. 2:7).

 

[The_Barbarian]

You should tell the Pope about this. How fortunate that we have people who are able to tell when the Pope has erred in matters of faith.

Fact is, we are animals. That is what our bodies are. The Church has no problems with the fact that humans evolved from other animals. Only when people assert that we are only our bodies, or that God had no role in our origin, is there a problem.

 

[rossum]

The website in which this info was taken has fallen away. So it can not be sourced that way. But I think it rather good, which is why I’ve kept it on file.

website:

It is philosophically untenable to posit that God at some point placed a human soul in a non-human bi-pedal primate animal which would already have had its own organizing principle (form) in Aristotelian/Thomistic terms.

I would have thought that it was philosophically untenable to say that God was incapable of doing such a thing. Since the Catholic Church says that God can change the substance of something (as in transubstantiation) then it seems silly to deny that God can also change the form of something.
website:

On the other hand, if D.E. is capable of harmonizing the special creation of Adam, (body and soul) then this objection could be dropped. It remains theoretically an open question from this writer’s perspective albeit extremely problematic.

Why? God can create a new adult male body, physically identical with members of an existing hominid species and also imbued with a human soul. He can then create a new adult female body from a rib of the male, and also imbued with a human soul. From the scientific point of view the new bodies will appear as members of the pre-existing species; from the religious point of view you have monogenism.

If I can think of this, then why is it beyond the author of this webpage to do so? I am not impressed.
webpage:

2.) D.E.’s prediction of non-human animal ancestry for Humans (Adam and Eve) is contrary to DNA mutation rate studies, mitochondrial DNA and Y chromosome data as well as morphological studies demonstrating that humans have no direct genetic, biochemical or morphological link to bi-pedal primates.[20]

Do you have the details of reference 20 please. Those assertions are false, and can be shown to be so. Just to take two, ourselves and Chimpanzees have identical Cytochrome-C, all other species have different Cytochrome-C. That is biochemical link to our primate ancestors. For a genetic link we have the same fault in our GULO gene as other apes, which is why neither we nor they can make our own vitamin-C.

rossum

 

[drafdog]

Where can you find the Catholic position on evolution? Try reading Augustine of Hyppo.

Matthew

 

[reggieM]

Fact is, we are animals.[/QUOT]

The fact is, that statement is false for a number or reasons.

 

[reggieM]

Fact is, we are animals.

The fact is, that statement is false for a number of reasons.

 

[The_Barbarian]

We are, to be precise, primates, mammals, vertebrates, chordates, dueterostomes, metazoans, eukaryotes, living things.

We fit nicely into the nested hierarchy of our kind; living things on earth. That’s not all we are, of course. We also are spirits, immortal souls that are given to us by God. But our bodies are the results of billions of years of evolution.

That’s how God did it. Let Him be God.

 

[vern_humphrey]

We are, to be precise, primates, mammals, vertebrates, chordates, dueterostomes, metazoans, eukaryotes, living things.

We fit nicely into the nested hierarchy of our kind; living things on earth. That’s not all we are, of course. We also are spirits, immortal souls that are given to us by God. But our bodies are the results of billions of years of evolution.

That’s how God did it. Let Him be God.

Precisely. When God created the universe, He did it His way. He did not ask for my advice, and it would be presumptious of me now to tell Him how He should have done it.

As I have pointed out before, I live in Stone County, Arkansas – and amongst all the stones, I find plenty of fossils – remains of plants and animals that used to live here long ago.

But if I try to find those same plants and animals living here now, with a few exceptions, I can’t. They no longer exist. Nor do they exist anywhere else on earth. There has been a 98% turn over in living creatures here.

Furthermore, if I go into the fossil record at different levels, I find it happening over and over – an almost complete turnover in life forms.

But there** are** claddistic links between forms from one layer and those from the next. And more and more, we are beginning to find DNA links with earlier life forms.

Evolution isn’t a matter of belief – it’s a matter of science. And the Church accepts that.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

To continue to offer proof of the obvious is to give credence to those that propose that there is a need for proof. The proof has existed for a good many years. Those who continue to deny evolution do not do so because of serious factual problems. They find evolution incompatible with their carefully constructed personal theology. That said, they then search out any and all “evidence” that supports this need. They are for the most part neither educated enough to sort through the evidence to determine legitimate science from the rest, but they are not motivated to seek any truth, but simply want “ammunition” to support their frightened beliefs.

The US, remains the only major country among the “advanced” that continues with this tired childish grade school discussion. We are laughed at around the world for this weird adherence to out moded conclusions. We have a long and sad history of anti-intellectualism in this country, in large part fostered by frightened religious fanatics. Better to let the uneducated local parents decide on school texts than actual teachers and academics who might actually know something. Such is the history that we adher to.

 

[reggieM]

The US, remains the only major country among the “advanced” that continues with this tired childish grade school discussion. We are laughed at around the world for this weird adherence to out moded conclusions.

isda07.eng.uerj.br/lib/isda-flyer.pdf

Ajith Abraham, IITA Professorship Program, Korea (co-chair)
Nadia Nedjah, State University of Rio de Janerio (co-chair)
Janos Abonyi, University of Veszprem, Hungary
Yuehui Chen, Jinan University, Jinan, China
Lakhmi Jain, University of South Australia, Australia
H. Kwasnicka, Wroclaw University of Technology, Poland
Etienne Kerre, Ghent University, Belgium
Janusz Kacprzyk, Polish Academy of Sciences, Poland
Marcin Paprzycki, SWPS, Poland
Jeng-Shyang Pan, National Kaohsiung University, Taiwan
P. Saratchandran, Nanyang University, Singapore

International Program Committee
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Adil Baykasoglu, Turkey
Ajith Abraham, South Korea
Akshai Aggarwal, Canada
Albert Zomaya, Australia
Alexey Rodionov, Russia
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Özgür