Catholic Prayer Question? (from a Baptist)

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Whilst attending a christian bible study group…the leader always started off with a pray asking for guidance…I noted i was the only one who preceded and ended the pray with the sign of the cross…just another Catholicism I reckon.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church; section 2157.
“The Christian begins his day, his prayers, and his activities with the Sign of the Cross: ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.’ The baptized person dedicates the day to the glory of God and calls on the Savior’s grace which lets him act in the Spirit as a child of the Father. The sign of the cross strengthens us in temptations and difficulties.”
christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/comm2.html#CHRISTIAN

Here is a link to a short history
landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/sign_of_the_cross.htm

QUOTE:
This holy symbol of our salvation, then, should be frequently used by us. It teaches us our true dignity. It reminds us that we are the brethren of Jesus Christ. In making the sign of the cross we become partakers in the wonderful history of our faith, and companions of the glorious saints of our Church. We are soldiers, and this is our weapon. The cross of our Redeemer has vanquished death, has overthrown the dominion of Satan. Let us, then, re-echo the words of St. Paul: “God forbid that I should glory save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
 
I just wanted to point out that one of the world’s greatest contemporary Baptists, Chuck Colson, OKed making the Sign of the Cross and “In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” in his great book, Being the Body.

He talked about the historical roots, and said that there’s nothing wrong with it.

If CHUCK says it’s OK, it’s OK! 👍
 
Why do Catholics start and end their prayers with" in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit," in contrast to “in Jesus name we pray” which is what we Baptists usually say. (or something similar.)

We prayer through Jesus name because Jesus is our mediator.

John 14:13-14
13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.

Not that I find anything at all wrong with it, I was just wondering why you pray in the name of the Trinity?

Thanks,

RyanL’s Wife
The practice of making the sign of the cross is ancient and biblical.
Scripture teaches that the purpose of the birth of the Son of God was to die. He came to redeem, ransom, and restore a people–his church. We should place the cross on ourselves as a reminder of the reality of the Crucifixion.

John Chrysostom, bishop of Constantinople in the fourth century, recognized the biblical nature of the sign of the cross. He encouraged his flock, “When, therefore, you sign yourself, think of the purpose of the cross, and quench any anger and all other passions. Consider the price that has been paid for you.”

It may be asked: If the sign of the cross is rooted in biblical reality, why have “Bible-believing” Protestants rejected the sign?
from catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9007cc.asp

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
OP, I think you’re not really comparing the right things. You mentioned the “in Jesus’ name” so I assume you’re talking about the conclusion of the prayer.

“In Jesus’ name” is entirely Biblical and Catholics do well to use it as is, especially in private prayer. However, we have customarily used similar phrases to conclude our prayers, including:

Short conclusions if the prayer is addressed to God the Father:

“Grant this through Christ our Lord.”
“We ask this in the name of Jesus the Lord.”

If Jesus was mentioned in a prayer to the Father right before the conclusion, we conclude it usually:

“…who lives and reigns forever and ever.”

If the prayer was addressed directly to Christ, then

“You live and reign forever and ever.”

In liturgy, the main prayer for the celebration (called the Collect) uses the “long” conclusion, expressing the fullness of the faith of approaching the Father through Jesus while simultaneously acknowleging the Trinity:

“Grant this through our Lord Jesus Christ your Son, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever.”

or if Jesus was mentioned right before the conclusion:

“who lives and reigns with you…forever and ever.”

If the prayer was addressed to Christ himself:

“you live and reign with the Father and the Holy Spirit, one God forever and ever.”

As you can see, all of these approach the Father through Christ, so it’s basically like the Baptists’, just worded somewhat differently.
 
For those who have been posting. I just wanted to let you know that this thread was started almost a year and a half ago. And while I appreciate your answers, I think everything was fully explained back in January of '06. If you want to continue to explain, it won’t bother me, but please don’t think you need to do it for my sake. I think I got it! 👍
Hey to the baptist considering conversion to the church:

how did it go? this thread is well over a year old, so how about a follow up? what did you decide about the church?

Journey Home on EWTN is an EXCELLENT series for those considering conversion to the Catholic faith. it helped me get through RCIA, when I had questions about the faith.
I am now enjoying the fullness of the faith and am proud to have joined the Church.

peace:thumbsup:
And to answer the question that got this thread bumped…

Numerous people have PM’d me, or asked on other threads, so I just decided to answer publicly on the forums and just refer people to that post. So to get an answer to your question, you can check out this post

Thanks for asking.

God Bless,

RyanL’s Wife
 
I’m Catholic and when I pray on my own, I usually start with, “In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit …” and end with “… in Jesus’ name, Amen.”
 
Romans 16:25-27 (New International Version)
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

2 Corinthians 13:14 (New International Version)
May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Ephesians 6:23-24 (New International Version)
Peace to the brothers, and love with faith from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to all who love our Lord Jesus Christ with an undying love.

Philippians 4:23 (New International Version)
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen

Hebrews 13:20-21 (New International Version)
20May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, 21equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 5:10-11 (New International Version)
10And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast. 11To him be the power for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude
24To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

The simple answer is, it is based on early doxologies like those above. If you read early prayers of christians both in scripture and recorded in history you will see that many address the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Apostolic Tradition of Hippolytus
Around AD 200 Hippolytus, a Roman clergyman, composed a manual of church order and worship known as the Apostolic Tradition. …
In Hippolytus’ second example, the Eucharist after baptism and confirmation, the ceremony begins with the offering by the deacons of bread, wine, milk, honey and water. During the prayer that follows, which Hippolytus does not quote, the bread is to be eucharistized into the “flesh of Christ” and the cup of wine into his blood. The mixed milk and honey, symbolic of the promised land and the nourishment of Christ, is blessed, and also the water, symbolic of cleansing. The bread, and cups of water, milk and wine are then distributed by the presbyters. The cups are served to each worshiper three times, with the following dialogue:
In God the Father Almighty. Amen.
And in the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
And in the Holy Spirit in the Holy Church. Amen.
laudemont.org/index.html?MainFrame=http://www.laudemont.org/a-witec.htm
👍
 
and i quoted “when we cross ourselves,we renew the covenant that began with our baptism. with our words, we proclaim the Trinitarian faith into which we are baptized (” in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit’).with our hands we proclaim our redemption by the cross of Jesus Christ." this is from scott hahn the lamb supper. he did a great job in this book. one thing i can said that sometimes i go to what disciples of christ call celulas on friday an yes iam the only one doing the sign of the cross there.😊 i wonder why is they believe in the trinity?🤷 May the Sacred Heart of Jesus be Adored, Glorified, Loved & Preserved throughout the world, now & forever. Sacred Heart of Jesus, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Worker of Miracles, please pray for me. Saint Jude, Helper of the Hopeless, please pray for me. Amen:)
 
Some pretty interesting ‘read’ in here and I agree with most of it but one thing bothers me above all else - why do Christians use the term ‘trinity’ when it [the term] is not found in the Bible?
 
Some pretty interesting ‘read’ in here and I agree with most of it but one thing bothers me above all else - why do Christians use the term ‘trinity’ when it [the term] is not found in the Bible?
Why not?
Don’t you see the Trinity in the Bible?

Can I also assume you question Purgatory?

BTW sahpo, Welcome to the Forums!!! C’mon in, the waters fine!!! 🙂
 
Some pretty interesting ‘read’ in here and I agree with most of it but one thing bothers me above all else - why do Christians use the term ‘trinity’ when it [the term] is not found in the Bible?
Because the term doesn’t have to be in the Bible for it to be true. You may not find the term, but you do find the concept in the Bible.
 
Some pretty interesting ‘read’ in here and I agree with most of it but one thing bothers me above all else - why do Christians use the term ‘trinity’ when it [the term] is not found in the Bible?
That’s a good question, and although it belongs on its own thread, the short answer is twofold:
  1. While the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit appear in Scripture, they are not explicitly defined as one in substance, co-eternal and co-equal; the word “Trinity” is shorthand for that.
  2. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that theology must be limited by the vocabulary contained in Scripture. The doctrine of the Holy Trinity was hammered out against a backdrop of third and fourth century heresies that challenged either the divinity or humanity of Christ or the nature of the Holy Spirit.
The authority to affirm such theological positions is an example of Mt. 18, which counsels that when trouble arises: “Take it to the Church.” Doctrinal development is part of Christ’s promise to the eleven in John 16 that he would send a Counselor to “guide you into all the truth.” He also said he had “many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.” In other words: those eleven men and their successors have Christ’s promised authority to confirm doctrine – as they did in defining the Holy Trinity at those great early councils of the Church.

When people accuse Catholics of thinking we have all the answers, I respond: “How can we have all the answers? We don’t even have all the questions!” But one question that has been answered is the nature of the Godhead as three-in-one and one-in-three! That has been the defining point of Christian orthodoxy for 1700 years.
 
Why do Catholics start and end their prayers with" in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit," in contrast to “in Jesus name we pray” which is what we Baptists usually say. (or something similar.)

We prayer through Jesus name because Jesus is our mediator.

John 14:13-14
13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.

Not that I find anything at all wrong with it, I was just wondering why you pray in the name of the Trinity?

Thanks,

RyanL’s Wife
The Sign of the Cross is probably the most often used prayer among Christians as whole Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic.
Despite its simplicity, the Sign of the Cross is an ancient prayer so rich in meaning. References to it appear in writings dating back to 240AD, and it is believed that it was in use during the earliest days of Christianity.
Initially, the Sign of the cross was made with the thumb, usually on the forehead but sometimes on the lips and chest. This small sign of the cross was in common use by the end of the fourth century and is still used today at many Baptisms, Confirmations, and anointing of the sick. It also is used in marking the forehead with ashes on Ash Wednesday. By the sixth century, people were using the first two fingers, held together, to make a large Sign of the Cross, touching the forehead, chest, and shoulders. The Two fingers symbolized the divine and human natures of Christ.
The use of three fingers became popular in the 9th century. The thumb and first two fingers were held outstretched together to symbolize the trinity, which the remaining two fingers were bent to signify Christ’s two natures. The form of the large Sign of the Cross is still used in the Eastern Christian Churches, where the right shoulder is touched before the left.
When we make the Sign of the Cross upon ourselves, we are expressing our belief in God and the Trinity. Through it, we remind ourselves of God’s love for us, of the sacrifice of Jesus made to give us eternal life, and of the presence of the Holy Spirit within us.
The Sign of the Cross also gives us way to express our belief in Jesus’ death and our hope in the Resurrection. We embrace the cross of Jesus and express our willingness to take up our own cross, all the while bursting with joyful hope in the Resurrection.
In making the small Sign of the Cross on our foreheads, lips and chest before the reading of the Gospel reminds us of our belief in the Word of God, our commitment to spread God’s Word in our daily lives and our awareness of God’s presence in our hearts.
The Sign of the Cross is primarily a blessing. We use it to call God’s blessing upon us.
Some may very well think that making the Sign of the Cross is like a routing action without thought. It is not. It marks us as Christians and is a visible expression of our belief and hope in God.
We also use it, in both large and small versions, to bless others or to bless things, such as a rosary. When used in the way, the Large Sign of the Cross is made in the air. Laypersons as well as clergy can use it to bless others. Parents, for example, may use the Sign of the Cross to bless their children…

**Sign of the Cross in Scripture

**Paul writes—1Cor 2:2 I determined not to know anything among you, **except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
Paul writes in Gal 6:14 We “should glory in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
**
John 12:‘The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the ruler of this world be cast out and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.’ “” John has a very profound spiritual insight here for us. We assume that Jesus’ kingdom and glory are primarily physical and visible realities, when, in fact, the glory of Christ’s kingdom **is the truth and the love that he manifested upon the **cross.

**So for Christ, in his own conscious thought, he understood that when he died that shameful ignominious death on the cross, there on Calvary, at that moment of shame and agony and horror – for the first time in history, the greatest manifestation of God’s love became available to all the earth.
**
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
 
Why do Catholics start and end their prayers with" in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit," in contrast to “in Jesus name we pray” which is what we Baptists usually say. (or something similar.)

We prayer through Jesus name because Jesus is our mediator.

John 14:13-14
13Because I go to the Father: and whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name, that will I do: that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you shall ask me any thing in my name, that I will do.

Not that I find anything at all wrong with it, I was just wondering why you pray in the name of the Trinity?

Thanks,

RyanL’s Wife
Fathers of the Early Church say?

Tertullian
(DeCorona (the Crown) Chapter 3. Ca 240); At the beginning and the course of any work, on coming in and going out when we dress, when we go to bed, and everything we do, we make the Sign of the Cross on the forehead."

ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM

INSTRUCTIONS TO CATECHUMENS
[Translated by Rev. W. R. W. Stephens, M.A., Prebendary of Chichester, and Rector of Woolbeding, Sussex. Assisted by Rev. T. P. Brandram, M.A., Rector of Rumboldswhyke, Chichester.]
FIRST INSTRUCTION.

This shall be a staff to thee, this thine armor, this an impregnable fortress, and accompany this word with the sign of the cross on thy forehead.

ST. GREGORY OF NYSSA

AGAINST EUNOMIUS
[Translated by the Rev. William Moore, M.A., Rector of Appleton, Late Fellow of Magdalen College, Oxford.] Book XI
and if among these customs is the sign of the cross(9),

ST. ATHANASIUS

LIFE OF ANTONY [Translated by Rev. H. Ellershaw, M.A.]
And having said this he called upon Christ, and signed the sufferers two or three times with the sign of the Cross. And immediately the men stood up whole, and in their right mind, and forthwith gave thanks unto the Lord. And the philosophers, as they are called, wondered, and were astonished exceedingly at the understanding of the man and at the sign which had been wrought.

ST. AUGUSTINE
LETTERS LETTER CLVIII. (A.D. 414.)
[Translated by The Rev. J. G. Cunningham, M.A., Vicar of St. Mark’s West Hackney; and sometime clerical secretary of the Bishop of London’s Fund.]
At the last, when dissolution was just coming upon him, he began to** make the sign of the cross on his forehead,** and in finishing this his hand was moving down to his mouth, which also he wished to mark with the same sign,

ST. AUGUSTINE
TEN HOMILIES ON THE FIRST EPISTLE OF JOHN TRANSLATED BY REV. H. BROWNE, M.A., CANON OF WALTHAM AND PRINCIPAL OF THE CHICHESTER DIOCESAN COLLEGE, REVISED, WITH ADDITIONAL NOTES, BY REV. JOSEPH H. MYERS, D.D.
HOMILY V.
Let them all sign themselves with the sign of the cross of Christ; let them all respond, Amen; let all sing Alleluia; let all be baptized, let all come to church

ST. AUGUSTINE
LECTURES OR TRACTATES ON THE
GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST. JOHN
TRACTATE CXVIII. CHAPTER XIX. 23, 24.
what else is the sign of Christ but the cross of Christ? For unless that sign be applied, whether it be to the foreheads of believers, or to the very water out of which they are regenerated, or to the oil with which they receive the anointing chrism, or to the sacrifice that nourishes them, none of them is properly administered.

ST. JEROME
THE LIFE OF SAINT HILARION
He understood that the demons were disporting themselves, and falling on his knees he **made the sign of the cross on his forehead. **

**St Cyril Bishop of Jerusalem (**d. 386) writes (Catech 13; “let us make the sign of the cross with trust in its power. it is the great means of protection, a sign for believers and a dread to evil spirits.”-

St Cyril Bishop of Jerusalem
PROCATECHESIS, OR, PROLOGUE TO THE CATECHETICAL LECTURES OF OUR HOLY FATHER, CYRIL, ARCHBISHOP OF JERUSALEM.
LECTURE IV
ON THE TEN(1) POINTS OF DOCTRINE.
COLOSSIANS ii. 8.
14. Let us, therefore, not be ashamed of the Cross of Christ; but though another hide it, do thou **openly seal it upon thy forehead, **that the devils may behold the royal sign and flee trembling far away(2). **Make then this sign **at eating and drinking, at sitting, at lying down, at rising up, at speaking, at walking: in a word, at every act(3).
 
Some pretty interesting ‘read’ in here and I agree with most of it but one thing bothers me above all else - why do Christians use the term ‘trinity’ when it [the term] is not found in the Bible?
It is a technical term developed to describe the “one God-three person” concept. This was adopted as the best means to describe this aspect of God’s nature after the New Testament was written.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
Thanks Mr. Carson but why not use the term the Bible has already offered for the Three spects of the Divine Nature, namely the term “Godhead” (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20 and also in Col 2:9)?
 
Thanks Mr. Carson but why not use the term the Bible has already offered for the Three spects of the Divine Nature, namely the term “Godhead” (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20 and also in Col 2:9)?
Maybe because the King James Version wasn’t around when the word was coined? Incidentally, the NAB does not use “Godhead” In any of those three verses.
 
Thanks Mr. Carson but why not use the term the Bible has already offered for the Three spects of the Divine Nature, namely the term “Godhead” (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20 and also in Col 2:9)?
Catholics sometimes use the term “Godhead.” So the question “why not use the term Godhead” is based on a false premise — we do use it.

What you’re really asking, I think, is why not use ONLY the term Godhead. The answer is, because there’s no reason to restrict our vocabulary.
 
Thanks Mr. Carson but why not use the term the Bible has already offered for the Three spects of the Divine Nature, namely the term “Godhead” (Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20 and also in Col 2:9)?
;You need to get a grip on your 4th century heresies. “Godhead” does not delineate the relationships between the Persons of the ‘Godhead.’ BTW: homoousion was the break-point where the Church departed from language limited to Scripture. But that was 60 years before the closing of the canon, so I guess it’s not such a break-point.
 
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