Catholic priest Pennsylvania scandal

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Even that act results in automatic excommunication. Priest can say nothing about what happens in confession.

I think this is a little off track though. The cover-up from before 2000 was exclusively about report that can through channels outside of confession. In some cases, as noted in the article above, it was even the civil authorities that covered up the crimes.
 
They can’t
If a priest hearing Confessions gives a hint or a tip as to who told him what, like it was said in Post #550, that’s breaking the seal.

Edit: never mind. I see you clarified that already.
 
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There is no excuse for the actions of the priests who were abusers or for those who covered it up or just looked the other way. No excuse.

That being said the most important thing a Catholic can do is to understand the crisis by checking facts not just the press reports that lack context and in doing so make it sound like nothing has changed and that the ills of the past are just as prevalent today. Sells more papers and gets more viewers than explaining the majority of the cases took place in the 1970’s and 80’s, most were single incidents and the vast majority of reports came in one year… 2002. Context is everything when explaining the issue. No defense… but context. Today a high school student is much more likely to be abused in school than in a parish. It is not even close and hasn’t been for 15 years. The changes have helped protect our teens… most were teens…

Here is a link to the secular report on the numbers… go to the end to see the charts… they tell the story quickly. Google john jay report 2011 or " The New John Jay Report on Clergy Abuse in the Catholic Church" for a summary and the link to the data. It was a horrible time. Also keep in mind that until about 1972 no laws were on the books to cover abuse of children… sex abuse was treated as a mental disorder… not a crime… by EVERYONE, including law enforcement. You can’t judge actions by today’s standards that took place 40 years ago… using standards of the day.
 
Not for who they are in danger from, but tell the person they may want to be careful. For instance: if they work somewhere and a coworker means them harm or plans on hurting them I don’t see what the problem could be if the priest told them to be careful on the way home or something without being more specific and mention it casually. Just general words of wisdom that can’t be traced back to a certain person.
 
Yep, buddy of mine with clearances listed me for a reference. Gave my wife as a reference for him before I could text her to let her know. FBI already was calling her.
 
Agreed that the lay community holds responsibility here, but you get violent disagreement from me that the Church has done all it can to prevent abuse.

Case in point— the current Vatican policy only supports reporting of priestly abuses to civil authorities in countries with mandatory reporting laws. Many poorer nations do not have such laws.
 
They’ll have to answer to God if they place precedence over the seal, and it results in preventable death!
 
A priest abusing a 12 year old boy is NOT a pedophile? Are you aware that a pedophile is an adult who preys sexually on children?

Such a person is, by definition, a pedophile.
 
Personally I don’t see hinting a bad thing. For instantance: teacher confesses to priest he is molesting a child in their school- how would it be wrong to reassign the student or tell the parents the child might progress more in another class?

Or if a person says he is going to kill another parishioner on his way home from work, what would be wrong if the priest called the person and asked them to skip to just “catch up on life” or something.

I don’t see how that is wrong, they would not be lying or outing the person who confessed. Now if they hinted that the person wanted to hurt them- absolutely. But hinting that certain things for them to do differently isn’t wrong.
 
There is a legal definition, a psychological definition, and common usage.
 
The priests in this scandal were alone with their victims. In a classroom situation where there are 20 to 30 other student “witnesses” , public school teachers don’t have "access or privacy. Your statement is a false equivalency at best.
Of course school teachers have access to privacy: after school one on one extra help, “Johnny, please help me get the books in the book closet out in the hall.”
 
I think priests can hint to someone if they are in danger, but nothing more specific.
Yep! Maybe hint that they might be in danger, but nothing else
Not for who they are in danger from, but tell the person they may want to be careful. For instance: if they work somewhere and a coworker means them harm or plans on hurting them I don’t see what the problem could be if the priest told them to be careful on the way home or something without being more specific and mention it casually. Just general words of wisdom that can’t be traced back to a certain person.
Personally I don’t see hinting a bad thing. For instantance: teacher confesses to priest he is molesting a child in their school- how would it be wrong to reassign the student or tell the parents the child might progress more in another class?
I don’t see how that is wrong, they would not be lying or outing the person who confessed.
No; you’re mistaken. A priest can neither reveal a sin that was confessed to him nor in any way reveal anything mentioned to him in confession that might reveal the identity of the penitent to another person (even as a ‘hint’).

Why is that not a bad thing? Well… if you needed to confess such a sin, but thought that it was possible that the priest would ‘out’ you or the sin… would you go to confession? Or would you remain in a state of sin, fearing repercussions if you confessed? That’s the downside – that the priest would never have the opportunity to offer you absolution or attempt to encourage you to turn yourself in.
 
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I think the examples I gave are reasonable and do not “out” the person who confessed. I do not think moving a child to a different class because you think it might be better to them go to a different class to learn better/ more. I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this exact matter. God bless
 
I think the examples I gave are reasonable and do not “out” the person who confessed.
I’m not seeing how that’s possible. Let’s think this through with an example.

Suppose I’m your priest and you come to me with your confession. Part of the discussion we have reveals that you’ve been abused. You’re saying that I should “hint to someone” that you’re in danger. How in the world would I do that without saying “@CatholicGirl is in danger of being abused”?

You mention saying something like “excuse me, Mr Principal. You should move @CatholicGirl from Mr Smith’s sixth grade homeroom to Ms Doe’s homeroom.” Without saying why. Without giving any indication. You realize that the Principal would either say “uh-oh! Fr Gorgias knows something’s up with Mr Smith and @CatholicGirl!” (and that’s absolutely prohibited – it’s called the “seal of the confessional”) or the Principal would say “who does that Fr Gorgias think he is, anyway, telling me how to run my school?!?”
I do not think moving a child to a different class because you think it might be better to them go to a different class to learn better/ more.
So… the priest should give an excuse that’s a lie? That’s not allowed, either.
I am afraid we are going to have to agree to disagree on this exact matter.
Perhaps. Please realize, though, that the Church demands what I’ve mentioned to you: no disclosure from the confessional. Ever. (Whether or not you disagree with it. 😉 )
 
It would not, children move from different classes all the time. It also would not be a stretch to say the child would do better- being away from someone who harms them would improve mood as well as attention to class. Every case? No, but a vast majority it would be true and reasonable (talking about if the priest is also a fellow teacher at this school). That’s what I mean. If it is a long shot thing- then no. What I have stated is not against church teachings as long as it does not indicate. If it does, then yes. But my examples do not.

Saying something like “blank’s grades are down” or “blank may do better in another class” (because as I stated above- abuse would show through their attitude and schoolwork in most cases) would not be unreasonable. If questioned further, they could say it was just an idea that might help their grades (still true).
 
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I don’t think it matters if it would or wouldn’t give anything away: a priest is not allowed to give a “tip” about anything he’s heard in the confessional.

And if it wouldn’t give any hints of identity, what good could it do?

I know I would NEVER trust a priest who gave a “tip.” If I went to confession, that is, which I don’t, not being Catholic.
 
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talking about if the priest is also a fellow teacher at this school). That’s what I mean.
OK… so, let’s make sure I understand what you’re saying:
  • If a priest is a teacher at school…
  • and if he hears confessions of students of the school…
  • and if he hears the confession of a student who he teaches (such that he’d know their grades)…
then he should tell the principal that the child should be moved to another classroom?

So… how many of these kinds of cases do you think exist? What percentage of abuse cases do they represent?

I mean, yes – every child is important, but… shouldn’t we be looking to develop solutions that impact great numbers of children, before we develop solutions that impact just a handful?
I know I would NEVER trust a priest who gave a “tip.”
And, @CatholicGirl1, this is the reason we cannot implement your suggestion. If people know that priests can take what they hear in the confessional and contact authorities based on it, then the Sacrament of Reconciliation disappears.
 
If you have a large enough organization, you will have people who are pedophiles. Our complaint about the pedophile scandal is what the organization of the church does in response to a discovered pedophile and what is it about this organization that attracts pedophiles to it and what about the organization allows for repressed pedophilia to come out and manifest when being apart of this organization. That is what people are outraged about. That the organization of the church fosters this and safeguards this behavior instead of destroying it when a pedophile is found. Pedophiles are officially protected under this organization through its actions and private letters and the access to children, while the pedophile is being protected, is what fosters these sick men to come to this organization because they know they’ll have the access and the protection. If the church’s response would be the same as say, literally any other company in America, then this wouldn’t be a problem. Any other company in America would at a minimum fire this person and at best help pay for the prosecution of this sick person for the families that can’t afford to prosecute.

The silence of the members of this church about the discovered private letters and the church’s shuffling around of these pedophiles speaks volumes as well. Is there nothing that the church could do at this point that would make it’s members force it to change? Is there nothing that the church could do that would make you walk away from it? Is tribal unity and the social benefit of claiming to be part of a group really worth this price? The shuffling around of known pedophiles and threats of ex-communication of the church isn’t from a one-off bad church. The response is directly from the Vatican itself. The Boston priest that was found guilty of shuffling pedophile priests around for decades is sitting in the Vatican now and was one of the voting members for the last vicar of christ. If the church will not change, why don’t the members force it to? If not, then you are complicit as well.
If nothing else, then just stage a protest outside the Vatican with children’s shoes for every child raped by the church the same way we did this to the white house here in America for all the children shot in schools since Columbine massacre. Show the world that the members care even if the church will not and that will help bring solidarity to the members who are catholic because everyone understands what it is like to stand up against an organization too powerful and insulated from its members, even if you are apart of it.
 
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