Catholic priest Pennsylvania scandal

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ConstantLearner said:
Homosexuality and child abuse are two very different things. Most homosexual men wouldn’t dream of harming a child.
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Well, sure. But would homosexual men who have repressed that homosexuality, joined the priesthood, and engaged in a culture of deceit and hedonism consider having (in their distorted view of things) consensual sex with an attractive post-pubescent 15-year-old? If not, why not? Clearly their moral fiber isn’t all that developed, if they are up to the necks in such secrecy and sin.
 
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Prodigal_Son said:
What guidance were these boys with SSA being given, in 1970? How was Christ’s love being shown to them?
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Exactly. As someone who was around during the 1970’s, there wasn’t much guidance sexually at all. I think the sexual revolution hit and they just weren’t prepared.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
Something else besides same sex attraction that could be added to a cause for this, is the sexual revolution in our society, especially during that time period, since most of this seems to have happened during that time. Priests are human and when the world is putting thoughts, ideas, imagery and the like in front of them, some are bound to succomb and fall and for many it was a great fall.
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The sexual molestation of children took place during the most puritanical of times. I don’t think that has anything to do with it. but I do think the relaxed sexual morals today lead to other problems, and I think society needs to change. I have no hope that it will, though.
 
Now is not the time to defend ourselves against Protestants, or against the media, or against anyone else, or to blame homosexuals or other strawmen. Personally, I couldn’t care less who is criticizing the Church.

The Church brought this on itself, entirely of its own making.
 
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ConstantLearner said:
The sexual molestation of children took place during the most puritanical of times.
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Do we have that sort of evidence? We certainly don’t have numbers or statistics that get at the scope of it. And to me, it seems quite plausible that abuse increases in sexually loose cultures.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Well, sure. But would homosexual men who have repressed that homosexuality, joined the priesthood, and engaged in a culture of deceit and hedonism consider having (in their distorted view of things) consensual sex with an attractive post-pubescent 15-year-old? If not, why not? Clearly their moral fiber isn’t all that developed, if they are up to the necks in such secrecy and sin.
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True. There are good and bad homosexuals just as there are good and bad heterosexuals. I doubt that all these priests are homosexual, though.
 
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So, I was under the impression that this started in the 1940’s and forward. I am not sure if you are referring to the 1950’s as puritanical, as many think it was, but that was actually when the sexual revolution’s momentum got going.
 
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Os2Hugh said:
I’m already sick and tired of all the evangelicals gloating about this on twitter and facebook. They really seem to be enjoying this, well at least the ones I’ve seen comments from.
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They have just as many incidents. However, it’s not news because it’s hard to group them together. Furthermore, the agents of evil know that it will be much easier to fight all of them if they take out the Catholic Church first.
 
please don’t quote Gospel to prove a point, its an abuse of the Bible.
And yes, put the alleged on trial. If they are guilty, convict them.

And yes, its not just the Catholic Church, its not just priests. even in the catholic church its not just priests.

its a failure of a society that it is producing people who think this kind of action is acceptable.

we can’t excuse what happened and we shouldn’t.

we stand up , we say, this happened, we are dealing with it. Those proven guilty will go to jail.
we support the survivors and the families of those who did not survive.

we support the good and hard working members of our Church.

and you are taking my statement entirely out of context. And yes we should look at all institutions, find out how wide spread and rampant it is, or was, and stamp it out.

Thats what we are doing in Australia. time for others to catch up on this issue.
 
phil19034 said:
They have just as many incidents.
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They have just as many coverups? And as many coverups regarding the abuse of boys?

I would have a very hard time believing that. Moreover, it isn’t relevant. Our shepherds failed, and our shepherds must take responsibility. Failing that, there is no (institutional) Church worth saving.
 
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I know what you’re getting at, jack63, and I agree with you.

On another thread, I tried posting about Philip Jenkins and his excellent book with all its verified statistics and the discussion of “pedophile” vs. “pederast,” , and was told, “Here we go, blaming the homosexuals again!”

One person made it clear that I needed to be quiet and do a whole lot more research, which I am NOT planning to do, since this is not something I want or need to study in depth. It hurts my soul and because I am a convert, it creates doubts in my mind about the Catholic Church.

There are many others who are better qualified and in positions to not only do this research but also to actually DO something about the crimes and sins. But I’m not that person.

Nevertheless, I have a right to an opinion, and my opinion is that I think Jenkins has a valid position that many people are unwilling to even consider because they don’t want to be accused of homophobia.

The main thing is, Catholics HAVE to be willing to not only do research, but to do un-biased research and be willing to draw conclusions based on that research even if the conclusions are painful and unpopular. I can’t help but wonder what will happen if Jenkins’ studies are validated by further research–considering the current social dynamics in the U.S., it could be grounds in the U.S. at least, for banning the Catholic Church outright. 😦
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Do we have that sort of evidence? We certainly don’t have numbers or statistics that get at the scope of it. And to me, it seems quite plausible that abuse increases in sexually loose cultures.
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I would doubt there are statistics like we have today. Here is a pretty good article:

Placing childhood sexual abuse in historical perspective

One of the major achievements of the past quarter century has been the growing awareness of the prevalence and damaging psychological consequences of the sexual abuse of children. State child...
tif.ssrc.org
 
Speaking as a man with same-sex attraction here…

There is no way to protect boys without exposing the homosexual aspect of this scandal. Most victims are boys, and that is completely clear. There is a clear and obvious connection between the homosexual subculture in the Church and these cases of abuse (especially the abuse or harassment of young men ages 14-25). It is not even faintly homophobic to say so. We need to say so, in order to protect boys.

At the same time, it’s quite evident that most gay men don’t act this way. On the other hand, most gay men don’t build their lives around one gigantic lie.
 
Peeps said:
One person made it clear that I needed to be quiet and do a whole lot more research, which I am NOT planning to do, since this is not something I want or need to study in depth. It hurts my soul and because I am a convert, it creates doubts in my mind about the Catholic Church.
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It creates more doubt in my mind, and I’m not a convert. Of course, I had doubts about Catholicism before, but about doctrine, not this cover-up. This only makes it worse since the Vatican’s official word, as of now, is “No comment.”

Regarding homosexuality, girls were molested, too. Though some homosexuals may have been involved, this isn’t a “homosexual thing.”
 
Prodigal_Son said:
There is no way to protect boys without exposing the homosexual aspect of this scandal. Most victims are boys, and that is completely clear. There is a clear and obvious connection between the homosexual subculture in the Church and these cases of abuse (especially the abuse or harassment of young men ages 14-25). It is not even faintly homophobic to say so. We need to say so, in order to protect boys.
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You do know girls were molested, too, don’t you? I didn’t know that myself till this morning.
 
Roseeurekacross said:
And yes, put the alleged on trial. If they are guilty, convict them.
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The problem is the statute of limitations has run regarding most of the incidences of abuse. That’s why only two priests have been charged, so far.
 
Prodigal_Son said:
Speaking as a man with same-sex attraction here…

There is no way to protect boys without exposing the homosexual aspect of this scandal. Most victims are boys, and that is completely clear. There is a clear and obvious connection between the homosexual subculture in the Church and these cases of abuse (especially the abuse or harassment of young men ages 14-25). It is not even faintly homophobic to say so. We need to say so, in order to protect boys.

At the same time, it’s quite evident that most gay men don’t act this way. On the other hand, most gay men don’t build their lives around one gigantic lie.
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Why not seek out adults if that was true?
 
if most victims are boys, how does one explain female victims, of which there are many. and how does one explain the same perpetrator sexually abusing both sexes
 
ConstantLearner said:
It creates more doubt in my mind, and I’m not a convert. Of course, I had doubts about Catholicism before, but about doctrine, not this cover-up. This only makes it worse since the Vatican’s official word, as of now, is “No comment.”
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I’m a cradle Catholic and I’m finding it increasingly tough to believe my salvation depends, or is even aided by, being in communion with these bishops. To be totally honest, I’ve even had thoughts of Rod Dreher-ing.
 
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