Catholic-Protestant Unity

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Why is it that most Protestants seem to think that it is up to the Catholic Church to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t they the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean seriously. All they gotta do is accept the authority of the Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?
 
CWBetts said:
Why is it that most Protestants seem to think that it is up to the Catholic Church to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t they the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean seriously. All they gotta do is accept the authority of the Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?
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If it was as simple as that friend there would be no division. In some Reformation churches the differances would seem to be on a few disagreements
  1. the Pope
  2. the majesteruim
  3. the Eucurist
  4. justifacation
    5.sanctifacation
  5. sola scriptura
    just to name a few then you have the major part of what is call Evangelicalism who deny that Roman Catholicism is even part of the body of Christ. Some would say apostate, others a false religious system, again others would say a cult., some would call her a Heterodox
 
=CWBetts;5268927]Why is it that most Protestants seem to think that it is up to the Catholic Church to make overtures towards unity?
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Hi Carl,
It isn’t just up to Catholics. It is up to all of us, though give credit to Vatican II for the current era of positive dialogue.
I mean, aren’t they the ones who left?
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Most never left the Catholic Church, as they were never memebers to begin with.
Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity?
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We are. Google Lutheran Catholic Dialogue, or Catholic Anglican Dialogue, or check the USCCB website.
I mean seriously. All they gotta do is accept the authority of the Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?
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A Lutheran friend of mine said the other day, “All the Catholics have to do is admit to their false teachings for there to be unity”
Well your approach and my friend’s approach had been the norm since 1054 between Catholics and Orthodox, and since 1517 between Catholics and reformation churches, and frankly, it is a lousy approach that predictably didn’t work.
Perhaps the new approach of your church leaders and mine will work better. Pray so.
Jon
 
My Catholic husband and I have this conversation all the time (I’m Episcopalian). I think the real answer is because Protestants and Catholics don’t speak the same language and its easier to speak Protestant. This is what I mean:
Roman Catholic theology is very philosophical. Protestant Theology as a rule is not. When issues about the Eucharist, non married priests, the Pope even come up, there is a very different understanding that takes place and the vocabulary changes to a vocabulary that protestants are very uncomfortable with.
Now I know that it would be easy to say that they should learn, and we should you’re very right. HOWEVER, if you know you’re talking to someone who has a smaller vocabulary then you do, out of Christian Charity, you use words they can understand, the same thing needs to happen here, Catholics need to talk to Protestants in a language they can understand.
If you want examples let me know, I have a lot. :).

There is another reason, and its one I feel bad about. Protestants are taught to think less of Catholics. Not all by any means, and I dont mean that they hate them but i mean there is a real effort to say that Catholic theology is bad. It gets worse because many current protestants are former catholics who left for some very personal, hurtful reasons who may just have it out for the Church. They dont understand the Church and therefore can’t speak the language (see the above).

I know it would be easier if we all took our big people pills and just learned about eachother, and trust me, I wish we could. However, at the end of the day someone has to take the first step and if the ball is put in your court, just take it and don’t waste time asking why.

🙂
 
I doubt Protestants and Catholics will be united, in my lifetime. Their is too much friction, and not enough reach. For instance, in my county their are:

Catholic Churches: 1
Baptist Churches: 50+
Methodist Churches: 25
Church of Christ: 21
Mormon: 2
Nazarene: 1
Presbyterian: 4
SDA: 1
Pentecostal: 7
Episcopal: 2
Lutheran: 1

I mean, yes, the RCC is WAY bigger then the protestants global, but here, the catholics are barely a minority, the thing is, most of the people here, rarely hear about the RCC at all, most of them, if you ask, will just say something like “I believen god, I do not think it matters if I go to one church or the other” and I have asked some of them, and when I tried to explain the RCC is supposedly the church Christ founded, they usually shrug, or say “Christ is in everyone’s church”. Is this true? I doubt to you, but most of the people here, never hear of the Pope, and never hear of the RCC globally, and why should they, most of them work 10+ hours, and live on farms after that, they don’t have the time I do (cause I for one, am under 18, for two, I work late nights, so I can have early days).

If the RCC wants to get the Protestants to come back, they have to let them know they are their, and they have to show that they are God’s Chosen Church, which will be very Hard, but its possible.

btw: I never knew we had a Mormon church or churches, kinda funny, but I never seen them in all my visits to town.

btw 2: Yes, the Catholic Church here is probably bigger then most of the Baptist Churches, except for maybe 5-7 of them, the big ones that are in town, they are HUGE, they are too big for my liking, I prefer, if I am going to just go, to go to a small one, cause they usually are quiter, and less noisy.
 
CWBetts said:
Why is it that most Protestants seem to think that it is up to the Catholic Church to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t they the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean seriously. All they gotta do is accept the authority of the Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?
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Many Orthodox would say much the same thing about Catholics:

“Why is it that most Catholics think that it’s up to the Orthodox to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t Catholics the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean, seriously. All the Catholics have to do is accept the authority of the Orthodox Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?”

Think how this sounds to you.
 
Cluny said:
Many Orthodox would say much the same thing about Catholics:

“Why is it that most Catholics think that it’s up to the Orthodox to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t Catholics the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean, seriously. All the Catholics have to do is accept the authority of the Orthodox Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?”

Think how this sounds to you.
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Only probblem is that the Catholic Church was the one founded by Christ.
 
JonNC said:
A Lutheran friend of mine said the other day, “All the Catholics have to do is admit to their false teachings for there to be unity”
Well your approach and my friend’s approach had been the norm since 1054 between Catholics and Orthodox, and since 1517 between Catholics and reformation churches, and frankly, it is a lousy approach that predictably didn’t work.
Perhaps the new approach of your church leaders and mine will work better. Pray so.
Jon
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Well said, Jon. I doubt than any of us are likely to show up on one another’s doorstep dressed in sackcloth and ashes, beating our breasts, and crying “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.” Nearly five hundred (or nearly a thousand) years of insisting that “the other guy” do so hasn’t been productive and, in fact, has been counterproductive.

I am beginning to suspect that only some amazing intervention by the Holy Spirit can sort out the hash our forefathers made of things. Of course, the Spirit can, and does, work through people of good will – Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Anglican, etc.
 
CWBetts said:
Only probblem is that the Catholic Church was the one founded by Christ.
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Haha, that might be true, problem is, people rarely take a man’s word now a days, and the only way your gonna convince people is not by saying that, or saying it 2x, or 3x, or a 1,000,000,000x; you gotta prove it to the people.
 
Cluny said:
Many Orthodox would say much the same thing about Catholics:

“Why is it that most Catholics think that it’s up to the Orthodox to make overtures towards unity? I mean, aren’t Catholics the ones who left? Shouldn’t they be coming to the Church asking how to promote unity? I mean, seriously. All the Catholics have to do is accept the authority of the Orthodox Church established by Christ. Is that really too much to ask?”

Think how this sounds to you.
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Thanks for adding the Orthodox perspective to this thread, Cluny. Moreover, how can there be Protestant/Catholic unity when there is still a division between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy? A worthwhile point I raised in another thread.
 
PA650 said:
Thanks for adding the Orthodox perspective to this thread, Cluny. Moreover, how can there be Protestant/Catholic unity when there is still a division between Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy? A worthwhile point I raised in another thread.
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Fair point. however, how can there be Catholic/Protestant unity when there is still division between Protestants?

For example, even if Catholics found unity with say the Anglicans, that wouldn’t mean that the Baprtists or the Methodists would come running for unity as well.

God bless you
 
No, Sir…I don’t like it. Far be it for me to get in the way of unity, but I don’t see how any Church can make so many claims about the vintage of its faith and tradition only to compromise most of the first and throw out a large amount of the second in order to draw in Protestants who are uncomfortable with all our crazy Mary and Pope talk. Let’s not pretend that this isn’t what it would come down to, either (some would say that it already has, looking at the way the N.O. is celebrated in many places, but I’ll leave that to the “Traditional” forum!), as it is foolish to pre-suppose that they would cease their grievances against us…why would they do that? Protestants have developed too much since the split to come back to their own roots in the Latin Rite. Sort of like how the communion with the Orthodox was not re-established with the lifting of the mutual excommunications in 1965. There are many other issues at play that aren’t really relevant to the question of who “should” make the first move. In fact, if we’re honest with ourselves I think we’ll have to acknowledge that this question is really not one we should be asking ourselves, if we’re actually interested in communion.

For my part, “getting Protestants back” is not a concern (and this is coming from an ex-Protestant), or at least not so much of a concern in light of the issues that surround the division between Rome and the Orthodox to begin with (the Reformation is of secondary importance, given its late development). Let those who feel so moved return to Rome or Constantinople, wherever they feel their ancestral spiritual home is.
 
BareKnuckler said:
Haha, that might be true, problem is, people rarely take a man’s word now a days, and the only way your gonna convince people is not by saying that, or saying it 2x, or 3x, or a 1,000,000,000x; you gotta prove it to the people.
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The uniteeruptd line of Popes back to St. Peter oughtta do the trick
 
CWBetts said:
The uniteeruptd line of Popes back to St. Peter oughtta do the trick
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Well, I would think not, since that has been used, and Protestants are still protesting, and Orthodox are still seperated.
 
I don’t think that’s true, CWBetts. I thought it was accepted fact that the Church at Alexandria, for instance, was founded by St. Mark c. 42 AD. So I think the Copts have a legitimate claim, as do those of that communion (Ethiopians, Eritreans, Armenians), and the Assyrians (St. Thomas), to a direct line back to the first century. Most of these are not in communion with Rome, but it does not lessen the apostolic nature of their Churches. It speaks to later events that separated East from West and/or West from East, in which either could be accused of “stubborness”.
 
Roman_Catholic said:
Fair point. however, how can there be Catholic/Protestant unity when there is still division between Protestants?

God bless you
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And His blessings with you.

I think there is often the temptation to regard “protestants” as a single group in schism from each other. We may be in schism from each other, but we are not a single group (other than Christian) with a single non-catholic starting point. IOW, there never was “The Protestant Church”.
Frankly, I think there is a greater chance of communion between, say, Lutherans and Catholics than Lutherans and Baptists. So, I guess my point is it makes no sense to delay efforts or possible unity between some protestants and Catholics on the hope that Protestants who never were one group will become one first.
For example, even if Catholics found unity with say the Anglicans, that wouldn’t mean that the Baprtists or the Methodists would come running for unity as well.
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Pastor Gary made an interesting comment,
I am beginning to suspect that only some amazing intervention by the Holy Spirit can sort out the hash our forefathers made of things.
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I think there may be significant numbers who, like me, would view reconciliation and full communion between Rome and the Orthodox as such an “amazing intervention” by the Holy Spirit. greater unity could follow.

Jon
 
I was talking about a this with a Protestant (Nazarene) friend of mine earlier, and we both agreed that if the various Large denominational groups would first come to agreement, (for examples all Lutherans on the same page, all Methodists on the same page, all Presbetyrians on the same page, and so on) then perhaps reunion to Rome could be in the cards.
 
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