"Catholic Rainbow Parents" in MN, openly protest Vatican teaching on homosexuality

[Libero]

You have a problem with God?

No, I do not believe that I claimed so either.

Really? I tell my children no all the time and I do it out of love. Is a parent loving only if He says yes to everything?

We don’t have to know why God does what He does. We have to accept it, but we don’t have the right to know His reasons.

Why did God send His Son to be tortured and murdered? Do you suggest that He didn’t love His Son?

Is a parent loving if he makes one of his children complete a near impossible task, threatening being bearnt in terrible suffering for the rest of eternity should they prove too weak, and let the other just sit by enjoy being “normal”?

Do we have to accept everything that God does without trying to understand it? If God wanted a mindless army who accepted everything he said without ever thinking about it then he would have created one.

I certainly prefer a christianity based on logical thought than blind faith. No, I do not suggest God did not/ does not love his son/ children, in fact I did claim otherwise in my previous post.

I will stand by the first possiblity. You have no basis to expect your second possiblity is valid.

I have no basis to expect either possibility to be correct, I am making suggestions, thinking, I am not claiming I know the answers. This is a hypothetical situation.

I have sexual urges just like anyone. What makes a homosexual special in that regard? I can’t go and have sex with every attractive female I see regardless of what my urges are.

Ah yes, but you can accept your sexuality, and engage it. A homosexual cannot even be treated respectfully by another human being because of their sexuality, regardless of if they engage it - in some cases.

 

[YinYangMom]

Libero:

God is omnibenevolent and loves all his children more than we can understand.

Let’s go with that…you are absolutely correct about that.

For those who believe some homosexuals are born that way, they turn to God and ask the questions you raised - WHY?

The answer is the same for the homosexual as it is for every human being alive:

To know God. To love God. To serve God.

Confident in His love for us - despite our own flaws and those we are born with - we strive to remain close to Him while on this earth so that we can be reunited with Him at the end of the world.

How do we come to know God?

• Through scripture, the Catholic Church and each other.

How do we come to love God?

• By reflecting on scripture and participating in the sacraments.
• By recognizing all the wonderful things he gives to us in this life to be stewards over until we meet again. Stewards, not owners. Everything we have belongs to God, not us. That includes our bodies, our minds, our hearts, our souls. We are given those things to take care of according to His will so that we can get to Heaven.

How do we come to serve God?

• Through obedience to His Word, His teachings as protected and promulgated by the Catholic Church.
• For the homosexual, it’s through obedience to His commandment not to participate in sins of the flesh, particularly sodomy whether or not we understand why, whether or not we find it easy or difficult to do.

He has shown us the Way home through His Incarnation, Death and Resurrection. Respect that sacrifice by giving yourself up to Him.

So you’re attracted to people of the same gender - so obedience means you have to give up human initmacy and children - that’s what it means to lay down one’s life for the sake of the other. By your not giving in to your attraction to the person you ‘love’ you are saving that person from sin him/herself. You protect your soul by giving up your life but you protect the soul of those you love as well. This is most desireable to God, He told us so Himself.

Have you any doubt about that?
Can you comprehend what a powerful expression of love for God such a sacrifice would be?
Why wouldn’t you want to love God back so intensely?

Where does it ever say problems in this lifetime have to find a resolution in this lifetime? It doesn’t. To expect everything to be as good as it possibly could be is unrealistic, we aren’t entitled to that, we weren’t promised that. We were promised eternal life if we follow Christ in all things. THAT is our goal, not whatever we feel we want, need or desire on this earth. This life is temporary, it is a means to the end prize.

 

[Orogeny]

Libero:

No, I do not believe that I claimed so either.

You claimed that we have a problem if God’s answer is “no”. Since I don’t have a problem with that answer, I assumed that you do.

Is a parent loving if he makes one of his children complete a near impossible task and let the other just sit by enjoy being “normal”?

You seem to be questioning God’s motives here. I will stand by what I wrote: We don’t know what God has planned for us and we don’t know why He does what He does.

Do we have to accept everything that God does without trying to understand it?

Absolutely not. In fact, I would suggest that we have an obligation to try to understand it. One of the tools we as Catholics have in trying to understand God is the Church. The Church is clear on the topic of homosexual activities.

I certainly prefer a christianity based on logical thought than blind faith.

Much of what we believe is based on faith. Do you have a logical explanation of the Trinity?

No, I do not suggest God did not/ does not love his son/ children, in fact I did claim otherwise in my previous post.

Yet God did send His Son to be tortured and murdered. How do you reconcile that with your claims that God would not have created someone homosexual because He is a loving God?

Ah yes, but you can accept your sexuality, and engage it. A homosexual cannot even be treated respectfully by another human being because of their sexuality, regardless of if they engage it - in some cases.

I’m glad that you qualified that with “in some cases” because I do treat homosexuals with dignity and respectfully. In fact, I know one man who is gay who is celibate because he accepts the Church’s teachings. I have immense respect for him and I feel that his sacrifice is beautiful. The point is, just because you have the urges, even if they come because of some physical reason created by God, you don’t have the right to act on them. Christ calls on homosexuals to lead a chaste life. He didn’t say it would be easy, but then following Christ often is not easy.

Peace

Tim

 

[YinYangMom]

Libero:

Is a parent loving if he makes one of his children complete a near impossible task, threatening being bearnt in terrible suffering for the rest of eternity should they prove too weak, and let the other just sit by enjoy being “normal”?

This is why Jesus left us the Catholic Church and the Sacrament of Reconciliation. He gave us everything we will ever need to be strong in His love and mercy, to get back on the right path when we stumble. Nothing is impossible with God. Nothing.

Do we have to accept everything that God does without trying to understand it?

Everything He does and says, yes. It is through the gifts of the Holy Spirit that any of us are able to comprehend or understand anything. If/when we are meant to come to an understanding, the Spirit will guide us to it. Until then, we obey.

I certainly prefer a christianity based on logical thought than blind faith.

Wisdom, counsel, fortitude are gifts of the Holy Spirit.
It’s difficult to be blessed with an abundance of said gifts when one’s soul is not in a state of grace. Thus, if you want to understand, pray, avail yourself of the sacraments, live a chaste and celibate life.

Ah yes, but you can accept your sexuality, and engage it. A homosexual cannot even be treated respectfully by another human being because of their sexuality, regardless of if they engage it - in some cases.

Not true. We can only engage in it if our vocation calls us to marriage. Otherwise we cannot. And not every heterosexual is called to marriage.

Homosexuals are not being mistreated because of their homosexuality - it’s because of their actions. Those who speak out against the church, against the teachings that they should be celibate place themselves in the position of being viewed as actively sexual and are treated as such. Just as pro-choice advocates are not treated respectfuly by others because of their declared statements against the Truth. We don’t know if they ever had an abortion themselves. We don’t know if they use ABC, but we do know they defend intrinsic evils so we fight.

 

[Libero]

THAT is our goal, not whatever we feel we want, need or desire on this earth. This life is temporary, it is a means to the end prize.

This whole “jump through hoops, get the prize” idea is strange to me, this childish need to be rewarded is not good. If you follow a religion it shows you wanto to become a better person, not that you want a good reward. My first post was challenging how we have interpreted Gods teachings and if we are correct. I can understand how people are expected to act, but we are humans, we are flawed. The fact that God would choose not to help a desperate suffering child is bizarre, and that he would then go on to punish them should they fail, even worse. All that time they have endured so many people on earth telling them how wrong they are, and treating them like second hand citizens, all in the name of religion.

We have no right to moan and whine about those not strong enough to stay strictly to the teachings of God.

 

[TarAshly]

YinYangMom:

Homosexuals are not being mistreated because of their homosexuality - it’s because of their actions. Those who speak out against the church, against the teachings that they should be celibate place themselves in the position of being viewed as actively sexual and are treated as such. Just as pro-choice advocates are not treated respectfuly by others because of their declared statements against the Truth. We don’t know if they ever had an abortion themselves. We don’t know if they use ABC, but we do know they defend intrinsic evils so we fight.

The Catechism calls us to be charitable and not to mistreat or discriminate against homosexuals.

 

[Libero]

Everything He does and says, yes. It is through the gifts of the Holy Spirit that any of us are able to comprehend or understand anything. If/when we are meant to come to an understanding, the Spirit will guide us to it. Until then, we obey.

I do not believe this, once again, God created us all unique, all with free choice. If anything, God knows we shall all turn out and act differently. Christian teaching is strict guidelines, not orders. No body on earth is perfect, thus nobody can claim to know truly what God wants. The spirit guides, advises and aids, it does not control.

Not true. We can only engage in it if our vocation calls us to marriage. Otherwise we cannot. And not every heterosexual is called to marriage.

Vocation calls us. God does not control us, we make our own choices, all heterosexuals have the potential to be married, thus all have the ability to engage in their sexuality.

Sorry Orogeny, I have to leave, I could answer your post tomorrow maybe!!

 

[Orogeny]

Libero:

Sorry Orogeny, I have to leave, I could answer your post tomorrow maybe!!

No problem. Have a good evening!

Peace

Tim

 

[aria13]

Orogeny: The Catholic stand on homosexuality. Basically, love the sinner, hate the sin. Don’t accept nor condone their lifestyle, pray to change them.

You can’t say that I lose a non-existent argument, because I discuss abnormal vs right/wrong. That wasn’t the argument. What that meant was that you shut down any possiblity of listening to another person’s ideas. People are afraid of homosexuals, because they are different. Do you have any gay friends? If you don’t, and you find out that someone has been living a lie for years, and comes out as gay, will you dump them as a friend? I think you would.

You say the act of acting on the homosexual tendencies is the sin, not the actually being a homosexual. So, if a gay person falls in love, they are forbidden to have love because of their gayness. They should live a lie, and be with a person of the opposite sex, just so they can appear normal to the rest of the world. OR, deny themselves love totally, and live a miserable life of lonliness. I see where this a good solution.

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT PEDOPHELIA AND HOMOSEXUAL IS MUCH THE SAME! Yes, the person who is a pedophile suffers from a mental illness, not necessarily a genetic abnormality. The fact that you say you don’t care why someone is the way he/she is shows that you have no desire to learn why this happens. I’m so glad that more people don’t think like that, for if they did where would we be in the progression of the world in all areas!

I wasn’t talking about locking up and killing gays, I was just saying how stupid people used to be to people with physical and mental abnormalities. However, the gay bashing that society displays isn’t that different, because many gays have been killed because of homo-phobia. Why wouldn’t I pray for a cure for them. Because as all-powerful as God is, I sometimes think he just lets things go for humans to work out. Believe me, if I could “cure” people with abnormalities with prayer, I would pray each and every second of the day. But, I can honestly say I’ve never seen anyone with Down’s, or progeria, or fetal-alcohol, or homosexuality be “cured.” I prayed a lot for my little brother…he still has Down’s. Gay people may come forward and say they’re cured just to get people to accept them. Are they really cured? I haven’t seen one yet.

(reading other posts) OHHH…and why do you think that a homosexual goes and has sex with many different partners?! what a ridiculous statement. They are in monogomous relationships many times longer than the heterosexual population! That’s a total misconception that someone created.

ALCHOLISM vs HOMOSEXUALITY: The person with an addictive personality has an abnormality, yes. But addiction can be controlled if wanted…to another addiction. So, an alcholic can shift that addiction to another addiction, maybe chewing gum. Maybe gambling. My ex went from alcohol to gambling. The alcohol helped in his abusiveness…now he gambles. There are no similarities there. sorry.

Yingyangmom: I’m not Catholic. I’m Lutheran. And believe me, I go against a lot of what they say as well. However, I am Christian, and I can’t imagine Christ being so incredibly cruel to anyone as what so many people are to gays. Would he judge them? He could…he was Christ. But I’m not God, nor is anyone here. I can’t say if this is what God wants…full acceptance of gays, but I know he wouldn’t want hatred displayed. And if it’s written in scripture that gayness is wrong, it was still written by men. How many times has the Bible been translated, and re-translated, because very few people today can read ancient Aramic. We, as humans, can live as close to a Christlike life as we can imagine. Whether we’re right or not will be seen on the final judgement day. Maybe then we’ll find out why God didn’t cure my brother…or gays. He gives trials to everyone, some have even harder ones. I don’t know why. Some people say that God will never give you more than you can handle. I have some doubts about that too…suicide is too prevalent. (and the gay population is starting to creep higher to the top on that as well.)

Christ’s love to all

 

[Brendan]

aria13:

ALCHOLISM vs HOMOSEXUALITY: The person with an addictive personality has an abnormality, yes. But addiction can be controlled if wanted…to another addiction. So, an alcholic can shift that addiction to another addiction, maybe chewing gum. Maybe gambling. My ex went from alcohol to gambling. The alcohol helped in his abusiveness…now he gambles. There are no similarities there. sorry.

So you are saying that a person with SSA cannot control their abnormality?

And that an alcoholic would require another addiction to overcome their sinful one?

That, while an alcoholic could choose to forego indulging their affliction, but such self control is impossible for a homosexual?

I’m interested in why you feel that homosexuals, or alcoholics for that matter, are incapable of directly exercising self control while overcoming their particular cross.

 

[lcalise]

TarAshly:

Ok 1. Do not refer to me as juvenille.

I didn’t. I said that those tactics are juvenille, and I believe they are such because their only purpose is to silence the opposition. I say the same thing about protesters who refer to me as a “baby-killer” and a “Nazi” because of my uniform. I wasn’t making a judgment about you but they way you were going about arguing.

1. I have spent a lot of time with homosexual friends who have tried everything to change who they are and they just cant.

I cannot judge their hearts, but EVERYTHING is possible through God. And no one ever said that they don’t carry a much larger cross than a good portion of us. Are you saying that humans cannot live chaste lives if we have a strong sex drive?

some are very devout Catholics. Who i would dare say are more devout than me.

Are you talking about people who have a homosexual orientation or those who actively engage in homosexual relationships and intercourse? It’s not really important for the argument, though, since it does not matter whether homosexuals are good people or not. A gay friend of mine is a much kinder, more generous, and definitely more patient than I… but that doesn’t change my beliefs about his lifestyle.

1. I believe thoroughly in God’s love and peace and forgiveness and mercy because i have felt it in my life.

But do you think we are owed forgiveness if we don’t ask for it? I mean, all the ‘sins of the flesh’ are basically putting ourselves, our happiness in this world, above God, right? So why is homosexuality any different?

I really dont care that it was cool with you or not, In fact i might be leary of something that was cool with you. Judging only by your posts, as i dont know you as a person.

Ditto.

You attempt to spew this serene knowledge and yet all that comes out is ignorance.

I know, I do that sometimes. Sorry… can I scrutinize your writing style now too?

Also who are you to judge why or why not I am a Catholic? I converted at the age of 20 from Baptist to Catholic, this is my home and you have no right to say whether or not i belong or not. unless im mistaken and you were made Pope overnight.

Um, I asked a question: Why be Catholic if you don’t believe that truth is found in the Church? There’s no reason to be so bitingly sarcastic! (And what was that up at the top about extending ‘courtesy’?’)

seems to me you have a lot of undue anger pent up against homosexuals… how sad.

How do you get that? How about using some evidence found in my writing so that I can clarify that stance? Gays, in general, have great characteristics, just like straight people. Homosexuality is just another sin of lust and I would say the same thing about having sex outside of marriage. How does that mean I hate homosexuals?

I can judge the morality of your actions.

Then does that mean you agree that the Church can judge the morality of homosexual actions?

you are being unduely cruel and unkind and uncharitable. Thats immoral. have a nice day.

You are being self-righteous, close-minded, and unkind. That’s immoral. Have a nice day. (I can play that game too :whacky: )

 

[Orogeny]

aria13:

Orogeny: The Catholic stand on homosexuality. Basically, love the sinner, hate the sin. Don’t accept nor condone their lifestyle, pray to change them.

How does that compare to your statement:

And if man has created more doctrine to condemn those that are homosexuals, than I certainly hope they are sitting up there with God, because in Scripture it does say “judge not, lest you be judged yourself.”

How can you “judge not” while not condoning their lifestyle?

People are afraid of homosexuals, because they are different.

No, they are not. That is a red herring designed to shift the guilt from the homosexual to the heterosexual.

Do you have any gay friends? If you don’t, and you find out that someone has been living a lie for years, and comes out as gay, will you dump them as a friend? I think you would.

Yes I do. In fact, if you had been reading the previous posts, my sister is a lesbian.

By the way, when you say “I think you would.”, does that fall under your admonision to “judge not lest you be judged yourself”?

You say the act of acting on the homosexual tendencies is the sin, not the actually being a homosexual. So, if a gay person falls in love, they are forbidden to have love because of their gayness.

No, they are forbidden to have sex, not love.

They should live a lie, and be with a person of the opposite sex, just so they can appear normal to the rest of the world. OR, deny themselves love totally, and live a miserable life of lonliness. I see where this a good solution.

No, they should be honest and live a celibate life as the Church calls them to. If you have a problem with this, you have a problem with the Church, not me.

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT PEDOPHELIA AND HOMOSEXUAL IS MUCH THE SAME!

I knew that you would react that way. I presented a hypothetical to you that you couldn’t answer so you make up a straw man. I didn’t say that pedophiles and homosexuals are the same. Go back and carefully read my statement.

Yes, the person who is a pedophile suffers from a mental illness, not necessarily a genetic abnormality. The fact that you say you don’t care why someone is the way he/she is shows that you have no desire to learn why this happens. I’m so glad that more people don’t think like that, for if they did where would we be in the progression of the world in all areas!

You didn’t answer my question.

Believe me, if I could “cure” people with abnormalities with prayer, I would pray each and every second of the day. But, I can honestly say I’ve never seen anyone with Down’s, or progeria, or fetal-alcohol, or homosexuality be “cured.” I prayed a lot for my little brother…he still has Down’s. Gay people may come forward and say they’re cured just to get people to accept them. Are they really cured? I haven’t seen one yet.

So you are the one who decides if a homosexual person is “cured” and not them? They may come forward just for acceptance, but maybe, just maybe, they are telling the truth. Possible?

(reading other posts) OHHH…and why do you think that a homosexual goes and has sex with many different partners?! what a ridiculous statement. They are in monogomous relationships many times longer than the heterosexual population! That’s a total misconception that someone created.

Because two of the three homosexual men and my sister have had many different partners. They are monogomous for a short period of time and the next thing you know they are with someone else. Each time, it is the person they will be spending their life with. So no, it is not a misconception. In my case, it is direct knowledge.

Peace

Tim

 

[contemplative]

mtn.org/cpcsm/catholicrainbowparents.htm

Hey everyone! Take a closer look at the endorsers list on the OP link.

Do you know any one on the list?

Can you investigate and find as much as I did?

Come.

Please!?!

Follow me if you can.

Mary Ellen & Casey Lopata, Rochester, NY are on the list.
I did a google search on their name and came up with much including this nasty 1996 article in my Rochester, NY Diocesan newspaper.

Fr. Callan is mentioned in this article. He was the severed priest in my diocese who started a dissenting church.

Keep following me.

Callan was severed in 1998.

this nasty 1996 article was printed in 1996 IN the diocesan paper

What does that tell you?

I can tell you what it tells me!

MN and places like Rochester were rotting from within long before today.

The rainbow parents on the steps of the Church are the least of our worries.

Sorry to say…

The Church is being attacked from within.

**My :twocents: **

 

[contemplative]

On August 13, 1998, Bishop Matthew Clark, under pressure from Rome, removed Fr. Jim Callan as administrator after 22 years at Corpus Christi Church.

more here

Only under pressure!..I believe that.

The seed bed for this rot we are seeing today started more than a few years ago.

Unfortunately I think this same scenario is going to cycle all the way through the whole Church in the same way it did in Rochester, NY

I think we will see a division in the Church of some kind or another. The division might not be as emphasized as the Spiritus Christi church in Rochester, NY was…

What is important is that we have a good strong, clear headed Pope ( and we do ). We all should pray that the Holy Spirit guide Pope Benedict XVI

 

[contemplative]

So what I want to say now is that if anyone wants to sympathize and saddle up with the GLBT rainbow people and parents …here are their ‘mass’ times at the Spiritus Christi church.

Mass Times

Saturday: 5:00 pm

Spiritus Christi (121 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Sunday: 7:30 am
Spiritus Christi (121 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Sunday: 9:30 am
Hochstein Music School (50 N. Plymouth Ave.)

Monday: 12:10 pm
Spiritus Christi Taylor Chapel (12 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Tuesday: 12:10 pm
Immanuel Baptist (815 Park Ave. at Brunswick St.)

Wednesday: 12:10 pm
Spiritus Christi Taylor Chapel (121 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Thursday: 7:00 pm
Spiritus Christi (121 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Friday: 12:10 pm
Spiritus Christi Taylor Chapel (121 N. Fitzhugh St.)

Mass in Elmira

Sunday: 5:00 pm
Riverside Church (559 Spaulding Ave., Elmira)

Mass in Buffalo

1st Wednesday of each month: 7:00 pm
Church of the Ascension (Corner of North and Linwood Sts., Buffalo)

Disclaimer: Mapquest.com does not have the directions to hell.

 

[YinYangMom]

Libero:

This whole “jump through hoops, get the prize” idea is strange to me, this childish need to be rewarded is not good. If you follow a religion it shows you wanto to become a better person, not that you want a good reward. My first post was challenging how we have interpreted Gods teachings and if we are correct. I can understand how people are expected to act, but we are humans, we are flawed. The fact that God would choose not to help a desperate suffering child is bizarre, and that he would then go on to punish them should they fail, even worse. All that time they have endured so many people on earth telling them how wrong they are, and treating them like second hand citizens, all in the name of religion.

We have no right to moan and whine about those not strong enough to stay strictly to the teachings of God.

I want to go home. **THAT’s **what I want. And my home is with God, beside my brother, Jesus and my mother, Mary.

Heaven isn’t a prize at all. It’s my final destination.
I am the only one who can keep me from getting there.
My father, God, told me what He wants from me while I’m here in the Old Testament.
My brother, Jesus, told me what Our Father wants from me while I’m here in the New Testament.
My Mother, Mary has told me what God and her Son wants from me while I’m here through her apparitions.

I’m not interpreting this stuff…I’m not in the position to do so. Jesus left us the magesterium of the Catholic Church to do that and asks us to obey, especially when we don’t understand, that’s trust in the Lord and all His promises, not blind faith in the magesterium.

God has chosen to help all homosexuals through the teachings of the Church, organizations like COURAGE, priests and parishes around the world and every one of His followers. But homosexuals do not like the Truth. They feel the call to live a celibate life serving the Lord is asking too much of them, that it’s not fair because God doesn’t ask that of the heterosexuals - but that’s where they are wrong. God asks all single people to live celibate lives. He calls some adults to the vocation of marriage, and even then we are still called to live chaste lives - it isn’t oh we’re married now we can engage in all those behaviors we couldn’t before whenever we like.

By the way - these hoops and jumps you refer to are man-made, inspired by the devil. Life is complicated **not **because of God’s Truth, it’s because much of what man has built around him goes against God’s Truth. We have to jump, dodge, stumble, fall, pick ourselves back up in order to stay on the **original path **toward God. Jesus came to show us the way and to carry our burden for us when it gets too heavy, not to complicate matters for us. Don’t you believe that?

 

[YinYangMom]

TarAshly:

The Catechism calls us to be charitable and not to mistreat or discriminate against homosexuals.

It also calls on us not to waiver from the Truth and never to compromise the Truth for political correctness. Are you suggesting I should pick and choose which parts of the Catechism to adhere to or not?

We open our arms to all homosexuals.
Those entrenched in their ways refuse our help.
Those seeking strength and courage accept our help.

If there’s any discrimination going on it’s from the homosexual camp branding us as evil for holding them accountable for their actions.

By the way, I’m still waiting for your responses to post #38.

 

[YinYangMom]

Libero:

I do not believe this, once again, God created us all unique, all with free choice. If anything, God knows we shall all turn out and act differently. Christian teaching is strict guidelines, not orders. No body on earth is perfect, thus nobody can claim to know truly what God wants. The spirit guides, advises and aids, it does not control.

God made each of us in His image. He gave each of us our own personalities and features, though most of that is through DNA more than anything else (of course DNA is God’s design).

Jesus on earth is perfect. He can and did claim to truly know what God wants - and the best part is, HE SHARED THAT KNOWLEDGE WITH US, through the apostles. He gave us the Catholic Church to continue to share the message of what God wants through those guidelines you so noted. The Spirit guides and aids, yes. It does not control, yes. But look at the time Jesus returned to earth to His ascension…He walked beside those closest to Him and they did not recognize Him. He ascended into heaven but they didn’t go around evangelizing right away. They had to wait for the Holy Spirit to descend upon them. When that happened everything Jesus had revealed to them became clear. Even when He was alive and walking with them they could not understand, see the big picture, let alone the little one. So while the Spirit doesn’t control us, He does have a lot to do with the timing of our ability to know and understand what it is we are meant to know and understand.

The Holy Spirit is constantly moving and guiding you toward the Truth, especially when it comes to the homosexual issue but you continue to hold fast to your own truth, rejecting God’s. It’s in black and white in the Old and New Testaments, God’s abhoration for sodomy and other sins of the flesh.

Vocation calls us. God does not control us, we make our own choices, all heterosexuals have the potential to be married, thus all have the ability to engage in their sexuality.

Vocation calls us, yes. We make our own choices, yes. While all heterosexuals have the potential to be married, it happens only if it is God’s will - just ask all the single Catholics out there who feel the call to marriage but have not found their mate. They do not have the ability to engage in their sexuality. Ask the many people who married because they wanted to but not according to God’s plan for them, whose marriages ended in divorce. No He doesn’t control us but we still have to listen to His plan for us before taking action and if we take action which we know is against His will we cannot expect to be happy.

 

[YinYangMom]

And if it’s written in scripture that gayness is wrong, it was still written by men. How many times has the Bible been translated, and re-translated, because very few people today can read ancient Aramic. We, as humans, can live as close to a Christlike life as we can imagine. Whether we’re right or not will be seen on the final judgement day. Maybe then we’ll find out why God didn’t cure my brother…or gays. He gives trials to everyone, some have even harder ones. I don’t know why. Some people say that God will never give you more than you can handle. I have some doubts about that too…suicide is too prevalent. (and the gay population is starting to creep higher to the top on that as well.)

This is where you are wrong. Everything in Scripture is the Word of God. God inspired the writers to put in hard copy form His Truth specifically so that people living in our generation and generations to come will have the Truth to guide them. Remember, also that what is in the Bible is recording what God revealed in the Old Testament and what Jesus revealed in the New. It includes the Traditions which became the foundation of the Catholic Church because those Traditions were established by Jesus Himself.

I can assure you, and feel free to look it up, the passages which speak to God’s disdain for homosexuality and perversions of the flesh is translatable, and has correctly been translated. There are some nuances throughout the entire Bible which did not translate cleanly, but not with regard to the fundamental Truths. I challenge you to find any biblical scholar who can prove the teachings against homosexual and perverse sexual actions have been consistently poorly translated by all those who have taken on that task.

Suicide is the result of giving in to despair, but mostly it is a deeply rooted psychological problem at the time. That is why the Church does not teach that suicide victims are automatically damed to hell. The Church teaches God’s mercy is unfathomable and recognizes that only God knows everything about the victims’ battles. There is no doubt to me that all suicide victims are evidence of the battle between Satan’s angels and one’s Guardian Angel which is waged from the moment of that person’s birth. (read “The Screwtape Letters” for some insight on this). Though it may appear on the surface that Satan’s angel won, we do not believe that is necessarily so because of God’s mercy. Do not despair over the souls of those lost to suicide. Pray for them, offer indulgences, help cut their time in purgatory so they can know the full glory of God’s presence.

It’s not the discrimination of society which causes the depression so many homosexuals feel, it is knowing they are doing things not pleasing to God. It is the overwhelming constant wondering they go through day in day out about whether or not what we are telling them is true. What if? But how? Why? I can’t. I don’t want to. It’s not fair. They are pushing us so hard to change our stance on the matter because we are extensions of God’s love. If we accept their homosexual acts then they will believe God accepts their homosexual acts. We cannot ever portray God in a false light as He is Truth and He is Love. They want His love, they need His love. They don’t feel His love because they are distancing themselves from Him. He does still love them, He’s trying to help them through us, but are rejecting that Truth and our help.

All sinners go through this. Even Saul from the Old Testament did. When he disobeyed God and did not show remorse for doing so, God left Him and he became paranoid, almost mad.

Now God doesn’t leave us like He used to do with His chosen leaders of the Old Testament (keep in mind He never left His people, after Saul He chose David to carry on His work and He remained with the House of David until He came to earth Himself through the Incarnation of Jesus and walked among us).

Since Jesus’s time it is we who distance ourselves from Him through our thoughts, through our words, through our deeds. We don’t have to guess about what He expects of us, He told us all about it when He was with us as man and He had the Catholic Church preserve the teachings through Tradition and then Scripture.

The further removed from Him we take ourselves the more anxious we become, unsettled, dismayed. We think it’s everything around us doing this to us, but that’s not true. When we look into our hearts and souls, make a proper and thorough examination of conscience, we can see why things are not boding well for us and we can see it is our own doing, no one else’s. So we go to confession, receive absolution, and start anew, stronger because we are closer to God. Then we keep going to confession every time we mess up again because we never want to feel that distant from Him again.

It can be done. We have only to trust in our Lord instead of ourselves.

 

[Eireann]

Libero:

This whole “jump through hoops, get the prize” idea is strange to me, this childish need to be rewarded is not good.

84 occurrences of the word reward in the Bible. drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=reward&b=drb&t=0

Matthew 46 For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?

57 Matthew 6

1 Take heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.

58 Matthew 6

2 Therefore when thou dost an almsdeed, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honoured by men. Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.
59 Matthew 6

5 And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward.