Catholic reply to masturbation argument?

[chain]

Masturbation is using sexuality for self pleasure. It defines how you view sexuality - it is all about me.

It is hard to be in a mutual giving and sacrificial relationship when it is all about me. I have seen it ruin marriages, directly - but almost certain that it ruins 100x more marriages indirectly. It encourages you to keep score, try to make sure you get your fair share, what you need…

 

[dazman]

All that I can say about this is it would be very sad to lose many good people from the Catholic Church because they masturbate. I honestly believe if you are a single male for example then sometimes it is healthy for your body to engage in masturbation. For some it happens naturally anyway during sleep so how this could possibly be a sin very questionable.

 

[MedStudent]

“And Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.
Genesis 38,7-10”

I have often struggled with understanding the Church’s interpretation of the Onan passage. I have often read the passage and have often come to the conclusion that the article comes to: that God slew Onan because he did not do as God commanded, which was to raise his brother’s children. Can someone explain the Church’s view more clearly to me?

 

[Frankr409]

I’m trying to understand why masturbation (in of itself) is a sin, and although I thought I knew before, this website thebodyissacred.org/body/sextouch.asp makes some arguments which make it hard to think of it (by itself) as a sin. What would be the Catholic reply to these arguments?

Do you want to be a saint? You can be. I’m just curious why you would want to let some website divert you from what Jesus calls you to be.

 

[TedDC]

Do you want to be a saint? You can be. I’m just curious why you would want to let some website divert you from what Jesus calls you to be.

Sorry, but that doen’t answer the question. Jesus never said not to masturbate. That’s a rule made by men, not by God.

 

[Frankr409]

Sorry, but that doen’t answer the question. Jesus never said not to masturbate. That’s a rule made by men, not by God.

So you are saying that Jesus didn’t give the Church the authority to bind and loose?

Do you have a different opinion of what is meant in Matt 16:19 regarding the authority of the Church to make laws that are bound in Heaven and on Earth?

Should we throw the whole Catechism out or perhaps just the parts that don’t appeal to you?

Interesting…

 

[chain]

Pretty sure Jesus did say something like “but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart”

 

[Frankr409]

Pretty sure Jesus did say something like “but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart”

Not sure where you are going with that quote from Mathew 5:28.

Care to expand?

 

[twoangels]

Many of us, including me, have disturbing memories of what we were taught about sex as adolescents. Sex was dirty and sinful (even thoughts about it were “impure”). It would seem that a better approach would be to emphasize the beauty of sex, portraying it (correcty) as a gift from God but for married couples only. Procreation as a purpose naturally fits this approach.
Also, the desire for sex is good and God-given as well. Impure thougts should be redefined as sexual thoughts, and as having a noble purpose.

I would disagree. Impure thoughts are lustful sexual thoughts that focus us inwardly. Sex between spouses is about giving yourself, not taking from the other person. I would say that definitely there can be some confusion about “If I allow myself to experience sexual pleasure and enjoy it, will I become lustful and begin using my spouse?” and such thoughts making it difficult to actively receive pleasure frm your spouse, but I think its a thing that just has to be learned in married life. Its very difficult to explain the difference between actively receiving and taking to someone inexperienced it. Heck, it can be difficult even trying to explain it to someone who is experienced in it.

That said, sexual thoughts are not at default impure. Taking a biology course on the human reproductive system isn’t sinful. Having basic knowledge about human sexuality is not sinful. Parents should definitely explain to their children the difference between lustful thoughts and general sexual thoughts. Lustful thoughts are inward focused. We engage in them because they cause us pleasure. We harbor them because they cause us pleasure. We must develop the self control.

Atually, sexual intercourse is virtually impossible without sexual thoughts. That would mean to me that such thoughts are good, not sindul.

Lustful thoughts are not required for sexual intercourse.

I realize I say this as a woman who was unable to have sex for the first two months of her marriage, but engaging in lustful thoughts was never key to overcoming my problem. Learning to accept that sex does not always mean being victimized or that a husband’s sexual desires toward you are non-threatening has been important in overcoming this. I have heard of people taught to think sex as totally sinful regardless of marriage as having similiar difficulties, but I would guess it is primarily fearing sin around every corner. Anxiety can do a lot of things and I suppose deciding that lust isn’t wrong can overcome those anxieties, but it is not lust which makes intercourse possible. Lust is not the same as desiring sex, being aroused or getting excited at the prospect of making love to your spouse. It is that inward selfish focus that makes us not look toward expressing our love and giving ourselves, but to simply using our spouse or our imagination to gain isolated sexual pleasure.

Indeed, nocturnal sexual dreams are natural even for unmarried teenagers. I remember worrying about whether I “entertained these thoughts” and had a difficult time with confession. Had someone taught me that these are not impure, relate to God’s gift to those married, and arise in my sleep naturally in accord with a natural purpose, I would have had a more natural adolescence.

Such dreams while asleep are not sinful. If harbored into your totally awake state and beyond, than they are sinful. It does become confusing, but usually its just good to confess possibly harboring them. I always clarified that I wasn’t sure how awake I was and how much capacity for culpability I had. I didn’t go into a panic about it. I’m a sinful human being like everyone else. Beating myself up about sin is false humility motivated out of pride. If I were as contrite as I would have loved to believe myself to be, I would never sin again. But for the most part I am contrite enough about my sins to seek God’s grace to overcome them and the grace of conversion in the confessional. I at least have the desire to have the desire and motivation to stop sinning. To say I have anymore contrition over sins that regularly occur in my life is to deceive myself.

 

[TedDC]

So you are saying that Jesus didn’t give the Church the authority to bind and loose?

Do you have a different opinion of what is meant in Matt 16:19 regarding the authority of the Church to make laws that are bound in Heaven and on Earth?

Should we throw the whole Catechism out or perhaps just the parts that don’t appeal to you?

Interesting…

I do not believe the Catholic Church’s claim that it has inherited such authority.

 

[Frankr409]

I do not believe the Catholic Church’s claim that it has inherited such authority.

Ted, I pray that you figure it out someday. Good luck.

 

[The_Exodus]

There seem to be two errors regarding sex. The first is to think that sex is totally wrong, disgusting, shameful, dirty, etc. The second is to think that “everything is ok” or that any sexual act can be done in any way one pleases.

The position of the Church is that sex is a great gift from God, meant to be enjoyed by married couples. Granting that, however, the sexual organds were meant to be used in a certain way; and to violate that use is to use them selfishly and immorally.

It is true, at least in my mind, that our age is more exposed to sexual temptations than perhaps any other in history. Pornography is so easy to access, by the time a boy is 10, he may have seen things his father never has. With that said, with Christ, no temptation is too strong. Christ is the only answer for any temptation. The self, that is, the sinful flesh, profiteth nothing.

Those struggling with impure sexual desires must pray for grace at the feet of Christ and God.

 

[rap1962]

Keep me in your prayers. I went nearly one week but lapsed twice in the last 12 hours. Will be hitting Confession today. I am proud that I went nearly 1 full week though. Progress. St.Joseph, model of chastity, pray for me.

I too have struggled with this problem for many years( I am 47). Unfortunately for me, I received some bad counsel when I was young and was told there is nothing wrong with masturbation as it is “normal” and a health way for young people to release sexual energy before marriage. Sounded logical to me and never really questioned it again. The problem is that this is very addicting and until recently I did not even realize it is a mortal sin. My fault and it does not excuse me but I have not engaged in this act since finding out the gravity of this sin. I know this will be a very difficult struggle for the rest of my life but I have a thought that may be of help to others struggling with this. Each time you feel the desire to masturbate, think of the tremendous agony Jesus suffered for us. Not only the physical pain but the pain of rejection he felt. He was completely humiliated in the most disgusting way possible. Read the passion of Jesus over and over. If he could willingly suffer so much for our sake, we should be happy to endure the minor suffering we will feel from time to time when we need to supress this urge. Offer this suffering as a way of showing Jesus how much you love him and how grateful you are for the sacrifice he made for your salvation. He knows what you are going through and will be so happy that you are willing to endure this for him. Ask for his help. Don’t ask for the cross to be taken from you, just ask for his help in enduring the cross. Count this as a blessing that you have been given an opportunity to return his love for you in a small but significant way.

When viewed in this way, the question of sin becomes irrelevant. However, to answer all those who are trying to either rationalize why it is or is not a sin I can only say this. Sin is anytime we seek pleasure and fullfillment in anything other than God. It is essentially the sin of idolatry anytime we seek pleasure from the things created rather than from the creator himself. When we masturbate we are seeking the most selfish form of pleasure imaginable. Think about it. This is the first time I have in many many years and it is so clear to me now that I am sick to my stomach I did not see it before.

May God Bless all those who seek him with humility and faith.