Catholic requirements on a non-Catholic marriage?

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Princess18

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I’m not sure I titled this post right. In the words of Austin Powers, I think I’ve thought about this too hard and now I’ve gone cross-eyed.

I went to a non-denominational Christian marriage recently. The minister was very explicit in his sermon preceding the vows that nothing can human can destroy this bond and that they are married until death do they part. He talked about unconditional love, honoring and obeying, fidelity, and how marriage goes beyond the gooey sentiments felt in the beginning. Even though he was in full-on lecture mode (complete with wagging finger) for about forty minutes, I thought it was a great ceremony.

This made me think back to my marriage ceremony, where our priest listed the requirements for a true marriage - free, total, faithful … and fruitful. This got me thinking - nowhere in the minister’s sermon or the couple’s vows was anything addressing kids. In my vows I took included something along the lines of “accept children freely from God”, and during our counseling it was emphasized that if we didn’t want kids we had no business getting married. I realize that not all Christian churches believe that accepting children is necessary for a valid marriage, as evidenced by approval of contraceptives. And I know that the Catholic Church recognizes non-Catholic marriages as valid.

But it still made me wonder - if one or both of the parties in the non-Catholic marriage have made it clear both prior and after their wedding that they do not intend to ever have any kids, is it still a valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

I’m sure this couple could care less if the Catholic Church recognizes their marriage, but let me take this a little farther. Let’s say a couple like them (not ever the couple I know, hopefully) gets a divorce and later one of them decides to marry a Catholic. The non-Catholic party would have to go through our Church’s annulment process before they could validly marry. Would the unwillingness to have babies be a reason for the previous marriage to be declared invalid, despite the fact that it was not a part of their wedding vows?

If it was a legit reason, that might be saying that the Catholic Church doesn’t always recognize non-Catholic marriages as valid … they have to match our form. If it was not a valid reason, that would confirm that non-Catholic marriages are valid as long as they fulfill the requirements of whatever church they got married in. What standard does the Church use in determining the validity of a non-Catholic marriage? And what if the church they married in has no definitive standard?

I would think that the annulment process for marriages involving a Catholic might be more clear-cut and lead to a declaration of nullity because there is a whole mess of requirments that might not have been met, or rules that might not have been followed. For non-Catholics following their own church’s form, it might be as simple as they both showed up, they were lucid and old enough, not already married, they said I do in front of the minister … therefore they are validly married.

Yes, I know it’s really sad that I sit around thinking of these things. Don’t pick on me. :o
 
Wow - you have a lot of thought into that one. I will give my meager (name removed by moderator)ut, and others can correct me or flesh things out a bit. The Church would require an annulment for a divorced non-Catholic to marry a Catholic, as you said, but the specifics of the vows probably wouldn’t be brought up, so whether or not they promised to be fruitfull during the wedding wouldn’t matter. Things like intendend permanance, freedom to marry and free consent are essentials to a sacramental marriage, and those are the things a tribunal will examine.

Peace,
Kathy:)
 
Hello. I have hypothetical situations relating to the Sacrament of Matrimony. I’ll try to make them as specific as possible. These situations are not related to me personally but merely ones I was thinking about recently.
  1. Can a never-married practising Catholic marry a divorced non-Catholic (especially someone who does not have any particular religious affiliation)? No children were produced during the previous marriage. The current couple would raise their children Catholic, per the wishes of the Catholic party.
    If the non-Catholic is not baptised, will he or she need to be in order for marriage to take place?
    If the non-Catholic’s previous marriage was a civil ceremony (at a registrar’s office or someplace similar), would a declaration of nullity be needed?
    Would a declaration of nullity be needed if the previous marriage was a religious ceremony?
  2. If a never-married practising Catholic finds herself pregnant as the result of non-consensual sex, could she still be married to the father of the child, either during or after pregnancy?
    What if the father of the child was the divorced non-Catholic above?
    What if the father of the child was a never-married Catholic?
    If she did not know the father of the child, could she still be married some day?
    Wouldn’t marriage be in the best interests of those involved, namely the child and mother?
    I imagine the situation above would be quite complicated. Marriage is meant to be lifelong and marrying someone she hardly knows would be daunting.
  3. If a Catholic couple has pre-martial sex (with or without contraception), knowing full well it’s a sin, and plan to marry in the church later, what would need to be done (besides penance)?
    What if the same situation applied to a Catholic and non-Catholic couple?
    What about a Catholic and divorced non-Catholic couple?
I greatly appreciate any help and answers offered.

–Odilia
 
Are you writing a soap opera? 😃
  1. if a non catholic was formerly married, he would need a declaration of nullity before he were to attempt marriage again to a Catholic.
  2. I’m confused, why would she want to marry her rapist? Assuming she would, there would be no impediments for her to marry him if he were never married.
  3. Ideally, the couple should confess before the wedding. If they don’t, the marriage is still valid. Although the couple commit further sin by taking a sacrament in a state of mortal sin, it does not invalidate the vows.
 
Nope, not soap opera. 😉 Seriously though, thanks for your answers.
I’ve no idea why she’d want to marry her rapist, but some women (perhaps albeit foolishly) do.
 
Dear Odelia,

I think you’ll find all of the answers you’re looking for in the book Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. In it he breaks down Catholic teaching on sex and marriage in an easy to read Q and A format.

The bottom line is: Salvation and our hearts. It is our hearts that will condemn us. What is in your heart? Is loving and serving and obeying God in your heart, or is that the furthest thing from your mind? DO you want to go as far as you can and not get in trouble? SOunds like conversion is in order.

Here is the book at amazon.com You can read some of it online at Amazon.

amazon.com/Good-News-About-Sex-Marriage/dp/1569552142

You might also be interested in another website on the theology of the body
www.christopherwest.com

Lots of articles that address your questions can be found there for free.
 
Thank you very much, graceandglory. I will have a look through the book; it looks helpful.
 
Oh my goodness!! I thought I had started a new thread! It was an honest mistake–
I never intended to use this one. I feel terrible and have only now realised the mistake. Please accept my apologies.
 
Princess18 said:
…
But it still made me wonder - if one or both of the parties in the non-Catholic marriage have made it clear both prior and after their wedding that they do not intend to ever have any kids, is it still a valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church?
…
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No, it would not be a valid marriage.

In fact, if they say as much to the pastor, then he cannot proceed with the marriage ceremony until such time as the couple is open to the possibility of children. Being completely opposed to the possibility of children is legitimate grounds for a petition for a declaration of nullity. The reason is that procreation is one of the necessary “ends/goals” of marriage, so if the couple is opposed to children, they are likewise opposed to marriage itself and so they can’t possibly intend to enter into a “complete” marriage.

The Church sometimes recognizes marriages by non-Catholic ecclesial communities, but not always. There’s much more to this. We cannot say that the Church always recognizes marriages performed outside of the Church as if this were a given.
 
Princess18 said:
…If it was a legit reason, that might be saying that the Catholic Church doesn’t always recognize non-Catholic marriages as valid … they have to match our form. If it was not a valid reason, that would confirm that non-Catholic marriages are valid as long as they fulfill the requirements of whatever church they got married in. What standard does the Church use in determining the validity of a non-Catholic marriage? And what if the church they married in has no definitive standard?
Click to expand...
Hi Princess18,

Several years ago, “the Vatican” issued an instruction *Dignitas connubii *that touched on this topic. Here is what it said:

Art. 2 – § 1. A marriage between Catholics, even if only one party is a Catholic, is governed not only by divine law but also by canon law…

§ 2. A marriage between a Catholic party and a baptized non-Catholic party is governed also:

1o by the proper law of the church or ecclesial community to which the non-Catholic party belongs, if that community has its own marriage law;

2o by the law used by the ecclesial community to which the non-Catholic party belongs, if that community lacks its own marriage law.

…

Art. 4 – § 1. Whenever an ecclesiastical judge must decide about the nullity of a marriage of baptized non-Catholics:

1o in regard to the law by which the parties were bound at the time of the celebration of the marriage, art. 2, § 2 is to be observed;

2o in regard to the form of celebration of marriage, the Church recognizes any form prescribed or accepted in the Church or ecclesial community to which the parties belonged at the time of the marriage, provided that, if at least one party is a member of a non-Catholic Eastern Church, the marriage was celebrated with a sacred rite.

§ 2. Whenever an ecclesiastical judge must decide about the nullity of a marriage contracted by two unbaptized persons:

…

2o however, the question of the nullity of the marriage is decided, without prejudice to divine law, according to the law by which the parties were bound at the time of the marriage.​

I hope that is clear. The bottom line is that the relevant divine law needs to be applied to all marriages, as Fr. David said. Also, whatever other law (ecclesial or civil) bound the couple is also to be considered.

Dan
 
FrDavid96 said:
No, it would not be a valid marriage.

In fact, if they say as much to the pastor, then he cannot proceed with the marriage ceremony until such time as the couple is open to the possibility of children. Being completely opposed to the possibility of children is legitimate grounds for a petition for a declaration of nullity. The reason is that procreation is one of the necessary “ends/goals” of marriage, so if the couple is opposed to children, they are likewise opposed to marriage itself and so they can’t possibly intend to enter into a “complete” marriage.

The Church sometimes recognizes marriages by non-Catholic ecclesial communities, but not always. There’s much more to this. We cannot say that the Church always recognizes marriages performed outside of the Church as if this were a given.
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Hmmm.

My understanding is that the Catholic Church assumes non-Catholics’ marriages are valid unless proved otherwise. So, the presumption is in favor of validity.

For Catholics, the case is different, there are many more criteria that apply a priori for validity. But for non-Catholics it’s different.

In that light, it’s always seemed to me preferable to start with assuming non-Catholic marriages are valid unless proved otherwise. I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the Catholic Church “sometimes but not always” considers non-Catholic marriage valid. I think it’s more accurate to say that the Catholic Church considers non-Catholic marriages valid unless there are obvious/proven/public criteria to not do so. But, again, if you have some Canon Law references that can clarify, please share.

Definitely, in the Catholic context for marriage, not being open to children would be grounds for possible nullity, but I think the a priori assumption would still be validity until an investigation determined otherwise for non-Catholics. If you know something different from Canon Law, as it applies to non-Catholics (which I believe was the immediate concern of the OP) please help.

Of course the Church does not ALWAYS recognize marriages outside the Church, but everything I’ve read, studied, and experienced indicates that the presumption is in favor of validity until proven otherwise, not vice versa.
 
Princess18 said:
I’m not sure I titled this post right. In the words of Austin Powers, I think I’ve thought about this too hard and now I’ve gone cross-eyed.

I went to a non-denominational Christian marriage recently. The minister was very explicit in his sermon preceding the vows that nothing can human can destroy this bond and that they are married until death do they part. He talked about unconditional love, honoring and obeying, fidelity, and how marriage goes beyond the gooey sentiments felt in the beginning. Even though he was in full-on lecture mode (complete with wagging finger) for about forty minutes, I thought it was a great ceremony.

This made me think back to my marriage ceremony, where our priest listed the requirements for a true marriage - free, total, faithful … and fruitful. This got me thinking - nowhere in the minister’s sermon or the couple’s vows was anything addressing kids. In my vows I took included something along the lines of “accept children freely from God”, and during our counseling it was emphasized that if we didn’t want kids we had no business getting married. I realize that not all Christian churches believe that accepting children is necessary for a valid marriage, as evidenced by approval of contraceptives. And I know that the Catholic Church recognizes non-Catholic marriages as valid.

But it still made me wonder - if one or both of the parties in the non-Catholic marriage have made it clear both prior and after their wedding that they do not intend to ever have any kids, is it still a valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church?

I’m sure this couple could care less if the Catholic Church recognizes their marriage, but let me take this a little farther. Let’s say a couple like them (not ever the couple I know, hopefully) gets a divorce and later one of them decides to marry a Catholic. The non-Catholic party would have to go through our Church’s annulment process before they could validly marry. Would the unwillingness to have babies be a reason for the previous marriage to be declared invalid, despite the fact that it was not a part of their wedding vows?

If it was a legit reason, that might be saying that the Catholic Church doesn’t always recognize non-Catholic marriages as valid … they have to match our form. If it was not a valid reason, that would confirm that non-Catholic marriages are valid as long as they fulfill the requirements of whatever church they got married in. What standard does the Church use in determining the validity of a non-Catholic marriage? And what if the church they married in has no definitive standard?

I would think that the annulment process for marriages involving a Catholic might be more clear-cut and lead to a declaration of nullity because there is a whole mess of requirments that might not have been met, or rules that might not have been followed. For non-Catholics following their own church’s form, it might be as simple as they both showed up, they were lucid and old enough, not already married, they said I do in front of the minister … therefore they are validly married.

Yes, I know it’s really sad that I sit around thinking of these things. Don’t pick on me. :o
Click to expand...
It assumes the Marriage to be valid until proven otherwise.
This impediment to a valid Marriage remember can also be removed by the couple when they have a child or become open to having children, stop using contraception, etc. Only God knows some things.
 
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