Catholic Roots, Mormon Harvest

  • Thread starter Thread starter christianley
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

christianley

Guest
Over at the Recovery for Mormonism board a Catholic poster said that her sister had converted to Mormonism after reading Eric Schuster’s “Catholic Roots, Mormon Harvest.” Supposedly, Schuster has a degree in theology from a Catholic college and his wife is an ex-nun who converted to Mormonism with him. From everything that I can tell his main thesis is that Mormonism is true because “By your fruits ye shall know them” and Mormon fruits are more positive than Catholic fruits – Mormons live better, healthier lives. Anyone ever heard of this book? How could Catholics with the background of Schuster and his wife fall for Mormon tales? I converted to Mormonism myself at a very young age and after 30 years of Mormonism saw right through it and was baptized Catholic. The good people in Mormonism weren’t enough to overcome the facts about Joseph Smith and his teachings.
 
christianley said:
Over at the Recovery for Mormonism board a Catholic poster said that her sister had converted to Mormonism after reading Eric Schuster’s “Catholic Roots, Mormon Harvest.” Supposedly, Schuster has a degree in theology from a Catholic college and his wife is an ex-nun who converted to Mormonism with him. From everything that I can tell his main thesis is that Mormonism is true because “By your fruits ye shall know them” and Mormon fruits are more positive than Catholic fruits – Mormons live better, healthier lives. Anyone ever heard of this book? How could Catholics with the background of Schuster and his wife fall for Mormon tales? I converted to Mormonism myself at a very young age and after 30 years of Mormonism saw right through it and was baptized Catholic. The good people in Mormonism weren’t enough to overcome the facts about Joseph Smith and his teachings.
Click to expand...
Haven’t read the book, but to me the flaw in the argument “you shall know them by their fruits” is that it confuses “individual” with “institutional”.
By this I mean that , every organization is going to contain “wheat and tares”. Thus you know individuals by their fruits. But you know institutions by the teachings they hold etc. In this the Catholic Church holds THE best pedigree…

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Haven’t read the book, but to me the flaw in the argument “you shall know them by their fruits” is that it confuses “individual” with “institutional”.
By this I mean that , every organization is going to contain “wheat and tares”. Thus you know individuals by their fruits. But you know institutions by the teachings they hold etc. In this the Catholic Church holds THE best pedigree…

Peace
James
Click to expand...
This is an excellent point. It’s not the Mormon Church as an institution that we should be looking at, but Joseph Smith himself that we should be looking at. The King James version says
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Click to expand...
So we will know Joseph Smith’s fruit by looking at his own life. Joseph Smith handed Mormons a lemon and they have made lemonade out of it, but it doesn’t change the fact that Joseph’s own life proclaims him to be a false prophet. Joseph Smith would hardly recognize the teachings of today’s Mormon Church because they have had to deny so much of what he taught (and did).
 
christianley said:
Over at the Recovery for Mormonism board a Catholic poster said that her sister had converted to Mormonism after reading Eric Schuster’s “Catholic Roots, Mormon Harvest.” Supposedly, Schuster has a degree in theology from a Catholic college and his wife is an ex-nun who converted to Mormonism with him. From everything that I can tell his main thesis is that Mormonism is true because “By your fruits ye shall know them” and Mormon fruits are more positive than Catholic fruits – Mormons live better, healthier lives. Anyone ever heard of this book? How could Catholics with the background of Schuster and his wife fall for Mormon tales? I converted to Mormonism myself at a very young age and after 30 years of Mormonism saw right through it and was baptized Catholic. The good people in Mormonism weren’t enough to overcome the facts about Joseph Smith and his teachings.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but where does this book get its facts? I don’t think the LDS Church can stand toe-to-toe with the Catholic Church in terms of what it has given of itself. The Catholic Church is more rich in its history of charity, good works, and saintly people than the LDS Church could ever hope to match. It’s not even close. Now, I’m not saying that there aren’t good people in the LDS Church, or that it does not do some very good things for its people, and sometime even for the larger community. But Good organizational skills, and use of volunteer time are not only “fruits” that should be considered. How many LDS members have been martyred for the faith, as compared to the Catholic Church. How many universities, hospitals, orphanages, charities, apostolates, and outreach programs has the LDS been engaged in over the years, as compared to the Church that founded the university system in europe and developed the roots of the modern medical practice. How many LDS scientists have given their lives to promoting reason and scholarly study of the world, when compared to the Catholic Church and its support of the arts and sciences from the time of the dark ages?

C’mon! Really? It would be laughable if not for the fact that so many people are willing to just accept the premise that mormons are “better people.” Let’s not get tied up in stereotypes. There are some pretty horrible people in the LDS church too. But it’s not about individuals, when you are comparing faiths. It’s about the institutions. And the LDS Church, for all its good, is still riddled with theological inconsistencies, and plagued with a short and troubled history of questionable moral teachings.

Peace,
Robert
 
I don’t know how anybody can take an honest look at the mormon religion, its history, its founder, its doctrine, and believe it. The people are very nice, and I believe, honestly faithful to the religion. The organization and family centered nature of the religion are very attractive, and imo people overlook all the other stuff for the sake of that. Lots of nice people, and they do do a lot of good things. But, you can’t honestly look at the fruits of the catholic church and say that the mormon church has produced better. IMO.

Meh.
 
campeador said:
Eric Shuster actually has an account on Catholic Answers and debated for a short time on this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=464370

Hope that helps. 🙂
Click to expand...
Thank you for referring me to that thread. It is obvious from reading it that Shuster is terribly confused about what the Catholic Church teaches. It doesn’t look as if is really trying to understand what Catholicism really teaches. Apparently, his problems stem from problems he claimed to have experienced with Catholic priests. And now he doesn’t want to know the truth.
 
thomasf said:
I don’t know how anybody can take an honest look at the mormon religion, its history, its founder, its doctrine, and believe it. The people are very nice, and I believe, honestly faithful to the religion. The organization and family centered nature of the religion are very attractive, and imo people overlook all the other stuff for the sake of that. Lots of nice people, and they do do a lot of good things. But, you can’t honestly look at the fruits of the catholic church and say that the mormon church has produced better. IMO.

Meh.
Click to expand...
I think sometimes people who leave Catholicism to become Mormons have just become judgmental of their fellow Catholics. They see priests who they judge as sinners and start looking for some place where they can be more in control. Most Mormons I know have a bias against paid ministry, and I am afraid the conduct of Catholic priests often lead people to look for someplace where they can be in charge whether it be the Mormon Church or some other church. If they would spend their efforts being faithful Catholics they would do a lot of good, but their judgmental attitude causes them to stray. And it doesn’t help when liberal priests don’t stay faithful to the Church’s teaching. Thankfully, Catholic priests seem much more closely aligned with the truth these days which may slow down the number of Catholics leaving the faith.
 
I say that if this is an issue for us, than we should be better fruits. 🙂

But for the record, I have many Mormon friends who are the equivalent to a “cradle Catholic” - they know the faith, they still believe in the dogma, but they live a very “secular” life. And then, just like very faith, you have extremes like Mark Hacking. My point is that every faith has spoiled fruits, we just can’t let them spoil the whole bunch.
 
I wonder if Mormons deliberately misrepresent the orthodox teaching on the Trinity. I have hardly ever noticed a Mormon present the doctrine of the Trinity, even when they have converted from other faith traditions. Do they deliberately do this or is it just a hard doctrine for them to comprehend?
 
christianley said:
Thank you for referring me to that thread. It is obvious from reading it that Shuster is terribly confused about what the Catholic Church teaches. It doesn’t look as if is really trying to understand what Catholicism really teaches. Apparently, his problems stem from problems he claimed to have experienced with Catholic priests. And now he doesn’t want to know the truth.
Click to expand...
Your welcome. 😃
 
=christianley;7850462]Over at the Recovery for Mormonism board a Catholic poster said that her sister had converted to Mormonism after reading Eric Schuster’s “Catholic Roots, Mormon Harvest.” Supposedly, Schuster has a degree in theology from a Catholic college and his wife is an ex-nun who converted to Mormonism with him. From everything that I can tell his main thesis is that Mormonism is true because “By your fruits ye shall know them” and Mormon fruits are more positive than Catholic fruits – Mormons live better, healthier lives. Anyone ever heard of this book? How could Catholics with the background of Schuster and his wife fall for Mormon tales? I converted to Mormonism myself at a very young age and after 30 years of Mormonism saw right through it and was baptized Catholic. The good people in Mormonism weren’t enough to overcome the facts about Joseph Smith and his teachings.
Click to expand...
I reckon Granddaddy was right: when we look for trouble we usually find it! 😃

Here’s what Jesus teaches on the issue:Matt.15: 14 "Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit." :o

God Bless,
Pat
 
christianley said:
I converted to Mormonism myself at a very young age and after 30 years of Mormonism saw right through it and was baptized Catholic. The good people in Mormonism weren’t enough to overcome the facts about Joseph Smith and his teachings.
Click to expand...
You must have done the Temple stuff prior to 1990, right? How many times do you have to do a blood oath of secrecy before you realize you’ve joined a cult?

(Edit: Now that I look at it, I’m oddly reminded of that owl who wants to know how many licks gets you to the center of a Tootsie roll pop).

Speaking of the older Temple ways…I’m still trying to figure out how you pronounce “Pale Ale.” Can you help me with that one? The last pair of Mormon missionaries I talked to had no idea what it was. They were quite puzzled…they wanted to know what beer could possibly have to do with Mormonism. 😃
 
cooterhein said:
You must have done the Temple stuff prior to 1990, right? How many times do you have to do a blood oath of secrecy before you realize you’ve joined a cult?

(Edit: Now that I look at it, I’m oddly reminded of that owl who wants to know how many licks gets you to the center of a Tootsie roll pop).

Speaking of the older Temple ways…I’m still trying to figure out how you pronounce “Pale Ale.” Can you help me with that one? The last pair of Mormon missionaries I talked to had no idea what it was. They were quite puzzled…they wanted to know what beer could possibly have to do with Mormonism. 😃
Click to expand...
Pay Lay Ale. Long a’s.

I admit the temple stuff seems weird now, but I was a true believer back then. I was actually more upset when they got rid of the blood oaths of secrecy because it made me think the entire temple ceremony was just made up instead of coming from God if you could just change it willy nilly. The changes were made at a time when I had just begun questioning the Book of Mormon so it was like a double whammy.
 
I’ve been in an e-mail discussion with him. One of his big points is that Mormon temple marriages only experience a divorce rate of 6%. I pointed out that Barna says Mormons have a 24% divorce rate while the Catholic divorce rate is 21% so there is not much difference overall. It would be interesting to know what the divorce rate is among Catholics who were really committed to Catholicism at the time of their marriage. That is what would be comparable to a Mormon temple marriage, but it is impossible to figure out that statistic. There are a lot of couples who get married in the Catholic Church that are not all that committed to Catholicism. This would be akin to Mormon couples who get married outside of the temple. Otherwise we are comparing apples and oranges.

I also pointed out if he really wanted a faith group that is committed to its religion and shows the fruits he is looking for he should become Amish or Seventh Day Adventist. I believe they do just as well if not better than Mormons in following their faith. The truth of the religion can’t be measured by the percentage of those remaining true to it. And even if only 10% of Catholics are true to their faith (a low percentage in my opinion) there would be over 100 million faithful Catholics which is a lot more fruit than the three to four million who have remained true to Mormonism. Social statistics can’t measure the truth of a faith.
 
BartBurk,

Appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut…I live in a city where we have a dynamic Catholic radio station. A new evangelization is coming about. There are already things beginning to happen in outreach and ideas, and the death of the Holy Father and his subsequent beatification is a grace.

John Paul II said Catholic evangelization must begin in America…I think he is right.

We are living in a time of great falling away from God.

The Pope has the Keys to the Blood of Christ. It will take the Church, as one said, 300 years to reflect, digest and implement what John Paul has taught.

We Catholics must draw to his example, intercession, and ideas, and directly draw from Christ Himself in evangelization.
 
KathleenGee said:
BartBurk,

Appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut…I live in a city where we have a dynamic Catholic radio station. A new evangelization is coming about. There are already things beginning to happen in outreach and ideas, and the death of the Holy Father and his subsequent beatification is a grace.

John Paul II said Catholic evangelization must begin in America…I think he is right.

We are living in a time of great falling away from God.

The Pope has the Keys to the Blood of Christ. It will take the Church, as one said, 300 years to reflect, digest and implement what John Paul has taught.

We Catholics must draw to his example, intercession, and ideas, and directly draw from Christ Himself in evangelization.
Click to expand...
It’s hard for me to relate to the idea that Catholicism is going through tough times. Here in the South Bend/Saint Joseph County, Indiana area the church seems especially vibrant and hasn’t gone through all of the problems that some other places have had. We had 1500 attendees at our parish’s Good Friday services even though it was held at 1 p.m. People had to go to the gymnasium and view it on a big screen because of the crowd. Maybe there are problems in big metro areas like Chicago, New York, Boston and San Francisco, but the church in Indiana seems wonderful to me. Of course I’ve only been Catholic for five years – maybe there was a better time I didn’t experience.
 
You are in a very good place…I am in an area that is highly secular, and a history of anti-Catholicism, so we tend to be very local key here.

I am beginning to see my own faith grow here now and we have outstanding Catholics who are making impact far outside our diocese.

Christ can turn the darkness into light…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top